THE Guitar Hero 3 Thread

[bl4ckfl4g]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I don't understand such claims about guitar/band music games sucking when the core gameplay is exactly the same (and just as tight) in all music games, the only key difference is the setlist, the other differences are important and may make a game superior but none are big enough for the other game to suck, in the end, the gameplay is exactly the same in both; if you like Guitar Hero then you like Rock Band and vice-versa, there's no such thing as "sucking" with this genre unless you simply don't like the setlist.

That is ridiculous. The GH3 engine was horrible. GHWT is a little better but still inferior to RB. The fact that you say the gameplay is "just as tight" shows how little you've paid attention.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Funny I always thought RB2's timing was WAY more relaxed then GH3. You can be a good half beat late with RB2 without issue, not with GH3. I've been playing them both back to back with the wife and kids and it is rather noticeable how much easier it is to hit notes on RB. This is all on the PS3 for reference, not sure how much of a difference that makes. GH:WT is far more relaxed then GH3, maybe not quite as loose as RB2 but much closer to it then GH3. Aerosmith is probably directly comparable to RB2(very, very easy timing wise).

 

[jjzelinski]

You know I've been watching videos of RB (I haven't played it yet, on it's way) but I'm a bit underwhelmed by the apparent simplicity of it. I know that sounds kind of silly, but I'm enjoying the rush I get from the sense of accomplishment when I nail some insane solo with GH3. I'm worried I'm not going to find the same challenge with RB2 or anything else. As for GH:WT, it's just bugging the shit out of me; I hate the track list.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
You know I've been watching videos of RB (I haven't played it yet, on it's way) but I'm a bit underwhelmed by the apparent simplicity of it. I know that sounds kind of silly, but I'm enjoying the rush I get from the sense of accomplishment when I nail some insane solo with GH3. I'm worried I'm not going to find the same challenge with RB2 or anything else. As for GH:WT, it's just bugging the shit out of me; I hate the track list.

You're not going to find the same challenge with RB2...because it's harder to play correctly. You can't just hit notes a second before you're supposed to or just randomly hit hammer-ons and pull-offs. Your timing has to be correct in Rock Band, as does your technique.

Guitar Hero (ever since 3) is pretty much like "Well our timing window is about 3 seconds, and you don't even really have to HOPO to get credit for it, so let's just throw some really stupid, nonsensical notecharts out there!" The "difficulty" in Guitar Hero is a cheap one...kind of like the old-school games that would have enemies appear right on top of you with no way for you to react and you died. Was it hard? Yes, but it was cheap hard.

Anyone saying that Rock Band's timing is more lax is wrong. Maybe you don't notice the difference on Easy, but on Expert, it is very apparent.

Edit: Beat Green Grass and High Tides on Expert in Rock Band and tell me that doesn't make you feel like the freaking best player in the world. Solos in Rock Band are way harder, since you actually have to HOPO correctly, instead of just randomly flailing and getting credit. Playing GH will make you worse at playing fake guitar...LOL!

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Funny I always thought RB2's timing was WAY more relaxed then GH3. You can be a good half beat late with RB2 without issue, not with GH3. I've been playing them both back to back with the wife and kids and it is rather noticeable how much easier it is to hit notes on RB. This is all on the PS3 for reference, not sure how much of a difference that makes. GH:WT is far more relaxed then GH3, maybe not quite as loose as RB2 but much closer to it then GH3. Aerosmith is probably directly comparable to RB2(very, very easy timing wise).

Your opinions are wrong. There are facts regarding this. Check out scorehero or something. Maybe you don't have them calibrated right or you wouldn't say that timing windows are looser on RB especially for HOPOS it is fact not opinion. Everyone knows this.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Funny I always thought RB2's timing was WAY more relaxed then GH3. You can be a good half beat late with RB2 without issue, not with GH3. I've been playing them both back to back with the wife and kids and it is rather noticeable how much easier it is to hit notes on RB. This is all on the PS3 for reference, not sure how much of a difference that makes. GH:WT is far more relaxed then GH3, maybe not quite as loose as RB2 but much closer to it then GH3. Aerosmith is probably directly comparable to RB2(very, very easy timing wise).

Your opinions are wrong. There are facts regarding this. Check out scorehero or something. Maybe you don't have them calibrated right or you wouldn't say that timing windows are looser on RB especially for HOPOS it is fact not opinion. Everyone knows this.

Yes. Just the fact that Rock Band has rectangular notes as compared to GH's circular notes means that GH will be inherently easier since a circular note has a bigger area to hit from top to bottom. Not to mention the HUGE leniency that GH gives you with your timing, the simplicity of HOPOs, etc. You don't even need to do the HOPO technique correctly in GH for it to register. You have to HOPO correctly in Rock Band, or it won't give you credit.

As my earlier statement said, playing Guitar Hero will make you worse at guitar rhythm games, because the game system sucks and will teach you bad habits. After renting GH: WT, it took me a few days to get back into the groove with Rock Band, because they are so different. I was used to being able to strum about 2 seconds before a note hit or not even having to try on HOPOs. After playing GH: WT, I would almost fail songs in RB on expert that I normally gold star.

Anyone claiming that the games play exactly the same is wrong. This is not opinion. The only thing that is the same is the concept.

 

[BenSkywalker]

You are all using precission mode, right?

Maybe you don't have them calibrated right or you wouldn't say that timing windows are looser on RB especially for HOPOS it is fact not opinion. Everyone knows this.

GH3 has an open front window for HOPOS, no back windown at all. RB has a very, very loose back window by comparison.

You have to HOPO correctly in Rock Band, or it won't give you credit.

Correctly? I think anyone that has ever played guitar for more then a few seconds would agree that is a staggering stretch when discussing any of these games

After renting GH: WT

GH:WT isn't close to the difficulty of 3, not remotely close. There are big differences between the titles(I mentioned this in my previous post).

Edit: Beat Green Grass and High Tides on Expert in Rock Band and tell me that doesn't make you feel like the freaking best player in the world.

GG&HT or Raining Blood, have to say Raining Blood.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
You are all using precission mode, right?

GH3 has an open front window for HOPOS, no back windown at all. RB has a very, very loose back window by comparison.

Correctly? I think anyone that has ever played guitar for more then a few seconds would agree that is a staggering stretch when discussing any of these games

GH:WT isn't close to the difficulty of 3, not remotely close. There are big differences between the titles(I mentioned this in my previous post).

GG&HT or Raining Blood, have to say Raining Blood.

HOPOs are significantly easier in Guitar Hero. Period. There is no discussion about this. It's not an opinion...it's fact. The timing window for hitting notes is also significantly easier in Guitar Hero. Again, fact, not opinion.

The fact of the matter is, the original Harmonix Guitar Hero games defined the genre (I know there were games prior, but GH made it big.) Rock Band adheres to the principles that were taught in those original games. Guitar Hero doesn't, thus, Rock Band is "correct" in it's implementation.

I'm tired of arguing about this when you and others are wrong. Guitar Hero 3 and onwards have bastardized the guitar game genre. This has been proven time and again. They made the engine stupid easy, but had to make the game "hard" by creating ridiculous note charts. If they made the note charts actually almost close to what the actual song is like playing (like Rock Band at least attempts to do), GH would be stupid easy and you could sleepwalk your way to 5-stars on Expert.

Why? Because of the huge timing window on hitting notes and the ease of nailing HOPOs. A FACT that has been shown time and again.

PS: Green Grass and High Tides all day long. It's longer, has a crazy long solo, and the only reason that Raining Blood is "hard" is because of the ridiculous note chart that is just garbage (like the song) and cheaply inflates the difficulty. Green Grass and Hide Tides is a hard song because...it is hard. Raining Blood is hard because the note chart is stupid thanks to crappy development from Red Octane. Big difference.

 

[BenSkywalker]

HOPOs are significantly easier in Guitar Hero. Period. There is no discussion about this. It's not an opinion...it's fact. The timing window for hitting notes is also significantly easier in Guitar Hero. Again, fact, not opinion.

You can hit HOPOs at least half a beat later in RB then you can in GH3. Period. There is no discussion about this. It's not an opinion...it's a fact. You can hit any note in RB half a beat later then you can in GH3. Again, fact, not opinion.

I'm tired of arguing about this when you and others are wrong. Guitar Hero 3 and onwards have bastardized the guitar game genre. This has been proven time and again.

GH1 compared to GH2- same timing? Nope. GH2 to RB, same timing? Nope. Is your claim then that Harmonix can change timing windows around on a whim, but Neversoft can't use a different one? The biggest difference is RB lets you hit notes late, GH3 doesn't. GH3 allows for earlier notes. The window is shifted. The difficulty comes from the fact that GH3 has walls of notes, meaning being able to be early doesn't help much while being able to be late would be a godsend. Also, you keep lumping post GH2 games together, they do have rather different timing windows too.

If they made the note charts actually almost close to what the actual song is like playing (like Rock Band at least attempts to do)

Which songs would those be? That Rock Band attempts to make like actually playing the song? Given, I don't know how to play all of them, but the ones I do know are not remotely close and it is a trivial task to check the tabs for the ones I don't know how to play- haven't seen any that are anything like playing the actual song in any of the games honestly.

BTW- GH:M is going to be the first game in the genre to have at least one instrument be the same as playing the song(drums on expert+).

PS: Green Grass and High Tides all day long. It's longer, has a crazy long solo, and the only reason that Raining Blood is "hard" is because of the ridiculous note chart that is just garbage (like the song) and cheaply inflates the difficulty.

The note chart for Raining Blood is actually much simpler then playing the song, although the same can be said about GG&HT, the note density for RB is actually closer to the real deal then GG&HT.

 

[abaez]

Just want to chime in to say that I was an avid GH3 player awhile back, and have since only played RB and RB2 since their release, 98% of the time on drums.

I downloaded the GH Metallica demo last week and played the GH series for the first time since RB1 came out and really couldn't believe how big the timing window was. I mean I could literally be a half second early or late and it would count. I ended up getting 98%+ on all four songs on expert the very first time I played them (which would never happen on any RB dlc).

I'm not knocking GH, because the easier timing is actually a bit funner as you don't have to concentrate as hard on getting it exactly right like in RB and can kinda flail away (also helps if you've had a few drinks). I'm actually going to buy the GHWT disc to play the songs on there, but anyone who says GH has a tighter timing window is delusional.

 

[jdport]

I agree, I don't know where the previous poster who said you can't hit notes late in Guitar Hero is coming from. In both WT and the Metallica demo, I noticed a few times when I was rather late on a note and I got credit. And I was significanlty late.. late enough for me to notice it and be surprised that I got credit. And I don't think that anybody can disagree that the HO/PO timings for GH3 were insanely easy to the point where you could just mash buttons and hit sections.

The problem with these discussions is they come down to fanboi vs fanboi... and neither side is willing to give the other game credit. I think that the WT timings which were the same (or very close) to the GH:Aerosmith timings are the best.... they are a little easier than GHII, but not stupid easy like GHIII. And Rockband is right in the same ball park... it might be harder but not much harder. I switch between the games all the time and don't need any time to "adjust" to different timing windows.... Rock Band is probably closer to GHII than the newer GH games but it's not that much different. People just need to give up on this whole "my game is the best and all others suck" mentality, or these discussions will never go anywhere.