toyota
Lifer
- Apr 15, 2001
- 12,957
- 1
- 0
- Status
OILFIELDTRASH
Lifer
- May 13, 2009
- 12,333
- 612
- 126
You are comparing the 7970 to a card from the previous generation and the Titan to a card from the current generation. If the 7970 was faster than a GK110 they could sell it for whatever they want. Sadly it was not even faster than the 104. Now more 110 cards are coming and AMD won't have anything until next year. Placing them a generation behind NVIDIA.
LOL, 7970 and GK104 are equal. 7970ghz is faster. Titan is 30% faster on average than 7970Ghz and the 780 will be about 15% faster.
Get your facts straight and quit trolling!
DooKey
Golden Member
- Nov 9, 2005
- 1,811
- 458
- 136
I took his comment to mean when GK104 was released it was faster than 7970, and it was. Just because AMD came out with drivers almost a year after release that finally changed the game for AMD doesn't mean we should forget a lot of NV cards were purchased because it was the fastest card available at the time of release.
Grooveriding
Diamond Member
- Dec 25, 2008
- 9,147
- 1,330
- 126
I think it was more the price than any significant performance advantage, it was $50 less, there were games where it was slower or equal to the 7970 at release and it was nowhere near the overclocker the 7970 was known to be. What it did also have going for it was one important game where it had noticeably better performance, Battlefield 3, which was the hot title back then. It also reviewed really well because it performed as well as what was available but was quieter/less power.
But I think it was mostly the fact it was cheaper.
Are folks still believing that the 780 will cost $499 ?!?
The cheapest that card will be is $649, up to imo possibly, $749. Considering we've seen most of the rumours saying $700-$800, my guess is it might be like Titan which was supposedly $900 and turned out to be $1000 Expect it to go higher than $649, $700-$750, $650 if nvidia decides to unclench their greedy cheeks. :biggrin:
Are folks still believing that the 780 will cost $499 ?!?
Expect it to go higher than $649, $700-$750, $650 if nvidia decides to unclench their greedy cheeks. :biggrin:
given titan pricing history. it willl be $799.
799 will stick with 680trisli 4gb.
649 will do 780sli 5gb.
499 will do 780trisli 5gb.
9 more days.
Last edited:
SolMiester
Diamond Member
- Dec 19, 2004
- 5,330
- 17
- 76
Reading comprehension 101 , was = past tense as in when released the 104 WAS faster...
Lately, the gtx680 has been holding it's own quite well vs. the hd7970GE despite all the "gaming evolved" titles.
Wow this thread just shows nvidia made the right decision on pricing. I applaud them. They realized that high end cards a niche market hitting under 2 percent of gamers, and decided to raise prices knowing full well that people who purchase luxury products don't really mind a price increase.
What were seeing is simple economics and game theory. Nvidia raises their price on high end cards. Amd, now can do the same, even if it's not the same price bump they can still get an increase, 95%+ of that 2%will still purchase the high end card, and both companies get to take in higher profits.
I'm curious to see reviews for this next generation. Hopefully reviewers are thorough showing us how the multi gpu setups from the previous generation, and how multi gpu sets of something like the 760 stack up.
What were seeing is simple economics and game theory. Nvidia raises their price on high end cards. Amd, now can do the same, even if it's not the same price bump they can still get an increase, 95%+ of that 2%will still purchase the high end card, and both companies get to take in higher profits.
I'm curious to see reviews for this next generation. Hopefully reviewers are thorough showing us how the multi gpu setups from the previous generation, and how multi gpu sets of something like the 760 stack up.
Let me clear something up with regards to how nvidia determines their pricing:
Unless nvidia doesn't care about profit maximization or is supply constrained, they cannot simply price cards however they want. They can't price is sky high if their primary consideration is maximum profit. I see folks here suggesting that "oh AMD doesn't have HD9000 yet, that means nvidia can do whatever they want with the price". Hmm, that's a tricky proposition. Generally, no you can't - generally speaking, nvidia doesn't do this. They price to maximize profit, and sky high prices doesn't accomplish that (explanation below) but in certain market/supply conditions firms will price above market. They can price over market price in two situations:
1) supply constraint (this is plausible since GK110 is also being used for HPC)
2) they don't care about profit maximization.
What really happens is firms will study price versus buyer base very very extensively - and based on this, they can formulate a price that is the best compromise between getting the most buyers and getting a reasonable amount of profit. Believe it or not, you get higher profits by pricing things at what consumers expect, at the typical pricing level. You absolutely do not maximize profit by pricing things sky high out of cockiness. (GK110 is a bit different in this respect, i'll discuss it below) This is because for every X dollars you raise the price of the product, Y consumers will exit the market.
This is very easy to understand. There are consumers who have set price limits independent of their income - these are people with mortgages, priorities, etc. Now some will pay anything, I would say these are the less intelligent folk who purchase out of passion. Most consumers have a strict price line and will not pass it. For instance, many bought the GTX 670 at 400$ But they would not have bought it at 550$. Absolutely not. As an another example, look no further than intel - notice how their i7 quad cores are usually always priced around 325-350$? And the i5 x570 parts are around 200$? Now, when's the last time intel had serious competition with high end CPUs? You'll notice they don't increase their i7 quad prices to 600$ out of arrogance, they price it to maximize profit. Again...for every X amount of dollars you raise the price, Y consumers leave the market. Consumers aren't sheep that pay anything you tell them, in this day and age they're informed,have expectations in regards to price, and they have price limits.
Profit maximization is a pretty basic concept studied early in economics. You can't, even if a competitor does not have a competing part, price something ridiculously high and get the most profit via this method.
Now, with the GK110 - they actually can price it a bit higher because these chips are also used for HPC and Quadro cards. They want to reserve a certain amount of chips for that, a higher profit segment. But let's discuss the 770 for a moment. I've seen some here state that nvidia can price it however they want because AMD doesn't have a competing part. It doesn't matter whether a competing part exists, profit maximization still dictates the price. 550$ excludes a lot of the market who have strict price limits and priorities. In fact, whoever said the GTX 770 would be 550$, that is laughable. Period. (This is based on the assumption that 770 will be 2GB, BTW) I'm about 99% sure the 770 will be 400$ and not a penny more - we'll see on the 23rd Now the 780 being the GK110, nvidia has more flexibility here - they may not want to make this a volume part, and they may not want to maximize profit with GK110 as a Geforce. As a Quadro, perhaps... As mentioned earlier, they can also use these chips in Quadro cards which are a higher profit segment. Even with that in consideration, the 780 absolutely will not be 800$. I can guarantee that. That will exclude so much of the market that they will make less money overall - I expect it to be around 600$, which is a reasonable cost for 3GB. 650$, MAYBE, that is really really pushing it. Again, we'll see on the 23rd.
Unless nvidia doesn't care about profit maximization or is supply constrained, they cannot simply price cards however they want. They can't price is sky high if their primary consideration is maximum profit. I see folks here suggesting that "oh AMD doesn't have HD9000 yet, that means nvidia can do whatever they want with the price". Hmm, that's a tricky proposition. Generally, no you can't - generally speaking, nvidia doesn't do this. They price to maximize profit, and sky high prices doesn't accomplish that (explanation below) but in certain market/supply conditions firms will price above market. They can price over market price in two situations:
1) supply constraint (this is plausible since GK110 is also being used for HPC)
2) they don't care about profit maximization.
What really happens is firms will study price versus buyer base very very extensively - and based on this, they can formulate a price that is the best compromise between getting the most buyers and getting a reasonable amount of profit. Believe it or not, you get higher profits by pricing things at what consumers expect, at the typical pricing level. You absolutely do not maximize profit by pricing things sky high out of cockiness. (GK110 is a bit different in this respect, i'll discuss it below) This is because for every X dollars you raise the price of the product, Y consumers will exit the market.
This is very easy to understand. There are consumers who have set price limits independent of their income - these are people with mortgages, priorities, etc. Now some will pay anything, I would say these are the less intelligent folk who purchase out of passion. Most consumers have a strict price line and will not pass it. For instance, many bought the GTX 670 at 400$ But they would not have bought it at 550$. Absolutely not. As an another example, look no further than intel - notice how their i7 quad cores are usually always priced around 325-350$? And the i5 x570 parts are around 200$? Now, when's the last time intel had serious competition with high end CPUs? You'll notice they don't increase their i7 quad prices to 600$ out of arrogance, they price it to maximize profit. Again...for every X amount of dollars you raise the price, Y consumers leave the market. Consumers aren't sheep that pay anything you tell them, in this day and age they're informed,have expectations in regards to price, and they have price limits.
Profit maximization is a pretty basic concept studied early in economics. You can't, even if a competitor does not have a competing part, price something ridiculously high and get the most profit via this method.
Now, with the GK110 - they actually can price it a bit higher because these chips are also used for HPC and Quadro cards. They want to reserve a certain amount of chips for that, a higher profit segment. But let's discuss the 770 for a moment. I've seen some here state that nvidia can price it however they want because AMD doesn't have a competing part. It doesn't matter whether a competing part exists, profit maximization still dictates the price. 550$ excludes a lot of the market who have strict price limits and priorities. In fact, whoever said the GTX 770 would be 550$, that is laughable. Period. (This is based on the assumption that 770 will be 2GB, BTW) I'm about 99% sure the 770 will be 400$ and not a penny more - we'll see on the 23rd
Now the 780 being the GK110, nvidia has more flexibility here - they may not want to make this a volume part, and they may not want to maximize profit with GK110 as a Geforce. As a Quadro, perhaps... As mentioned earlier, they can also use these chips in Quadro cards which are a higher profit segment. Even with that in consideration, the 780 absolutely will not be 800$. I can guarantee that. That will exclude so much of the market that they will make less money overall - I expect it to be around 600$, which is a reasonable cost for 3GB. 650$, MAYBE, that is really really pushing it. Again, we'll see on the 23rd.
Last edited:
GHz does suffer greatly in perf/w compared to the original, the power increase doesn't really justify the performance increase. Unlike Titan, it wasn't originally designed for the TDP it sits at.
Puffnstuff
Lifer
- Mar 9, 2005
- 16,256
- 4,930
- 136
I've used both ati and NVidia cards however NVidia drivers are consistently better as is performance so I've pretty much gone with them.
There hasn't been an ATI card in years, things have moved on since then. I have used HD 79x0 and GTX6x0 cards this gen and found no serious issues with AMD. My GTX680 had serious vsync stutter due to the Nvidia vsync stutter bug, it took Nvidia 3-4 months to sort the problem. GTX6x0 owners had to put up with screen tearing or serious stutter with vsync on in all that time. Even the much hyped AMD single GPU frametime problems was a game profile issue rather than actual drivers. CF on the other hand is a serious stutter problem out of the box and AMD derserve all the flak for taking so long to address a long known issue.
I ended up sticking with HD 7950 as it trades blows with a GTX680 for considerably less money, even when both are overclocked.
Last edited:
Some might disagree:
http://videocardz.com/41459/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-to-cost-between-500-to-600-euro
Same source has a box picture of a 780 and the following info:
I'd rather have the 770 with 40 rops, 320 bus, and unlocked voltage for $350 on a water loop but what are you gonna do - none of that exists!
Grooveriding
Diamond Member
- Dec 25, 2008
- 9,147
- 1,330
- 126
Your link shows the 780 for 887 Euro from an etailor further in? That is as much as a Titan. Even account for VAT I doubt the card will cost that much. $650-$750 is my guess, with $700 probably being the most likely. The card is too close to the Titan in specs to cost $500, no one would buy a Titan, unless that card has price drops coming.
$700.
- Status
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter