The Great Global Warming Swindle

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: Kntx

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: shoegazer
It's the same old arguments that have been disproved over and over again. Scientific ideas are adapted to work with new research, but anti-global warming supporters just keep railing on the same old junk.

Have you seen the show? I didn't think it had aired yet.

I really don't understand the rigid, almost fanatical stand from some people on this issue. To dismiss the very real possibility that man is not the direct cause of climate change... In other words, to admit that in fact, the earth's climate is dynamic, not static seems to be almost painful for some.

Nobody says that. Nobody denies the Earth's climate is dynamic. The issue is the change occuring NOW and the predicted changes still to come that are due to man's influence.

And therein lies the rub. You seem to think this a given fact, when, in reality, it is not. The subject has been politicized by the shrill left to the point that they've lost all reasonable credibility on the subject. Despite your political or personal agenda?MANMADE GW IS NOT A FACT?it's a theory that's unproven and many highly qualified scientists disagree with this theory.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
You seem to think this a given fact, when, in reality, it is not.

The subject has been politicized by the shrill left to the point that they've lost all reasonable credibility on the subject.

Despite your political or personal agenda?MANMADE GW IS NOT A FACT?it's a theory that's unproven and many highly qualified scientists disagree with this theory.

You honestly believe cutting down forestation over a majority of the planet and pumping the pollutants man does into the atmosphere has absolutely no effect on the planet?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
You seem to think this a given fact, when, in reality, it is not.

The subject has been politicized by the shrill left to the point that they've lost all reasonable credibility on the subject.

Despite your political or personal agenda?MANMADE GW IS NOT A FACT?it's a theory that's unproven and many highly qualified scientists disagree with this theory.

You honestly believe cutting down forestation over a majority of the planet and pumping the pollutants man does into the atmosphere has absolutely no effect on the planet?

That's not what I said. Obviously, pollution and deforestation are problems. You seem to be missing the point.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
You seem to think this a given fact, when, in reality, it is not.

The subject has been politicized by the shrill left to the point that they've lost all reasonable credibility on the subject.

Despite your political or personal agenda?MANMADE GW IS NOT A FACT?it's a theory that's unproven and many highly qualified scientists disagree with this theory.

You honestly believe cutting down forestation over a majority of the planet and pumping the pollutants man does into the atmosphere has absolutely no effect on the planet?

That's not what I said. Obviously, pollution and deforestation are problems. You seem to be missing the point.

Sorry, but for once even I can't figure out what Dave missed

 

[Moonbeam]

It would be fascinating to put people who doubt global warming on a psychiatrist's couch and try to see what makes them tick. Could it be a religious belief that God gave them dominion over the earth. Could it be a childish belief in immortality that makes youth such risk takers? Could it be an egotism that can admit to no fault that their personal actions are harming others? Could it be a fear of change?

What aspect of the Greenhouse Theory that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that CO2 is produced in the burning of hydrocarbons is in question.?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It would be fascinating to put people who doubt global warming on a psychiatrist's couch and try to see what makes them tick. Could it be a religious belief that God gave them dominion over the earth. Could it be a childish belief in immortality that makes youth such risk takers? Could it be an egotism that can admit to no fault that their personal actions are harming others? Could it be a fear of change?

What aspect of the Greenhouse Theory that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that CO2 is produced in the burning of hydrocarbons is in question.?

I honestly dont think there is much disagreement about whether or not global warming exists per se. I think those that are labled "the anti GW crowd" doubt whether or not mankind -significantly- contributes to it, and whether or not mankind can actually DO anything about it. Thats what camp Im in, and those whom Ive personally had discussions about it think.

IMHO

 

[shoegazer]

The main cause behind global warming is a lack of faith. Check out this handy graph I threw together which illustrates my point.

The Real Cause

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It would be fascinating to put people who doubt global warming on a psychiatrist's couch and try to see what makes them tick. Could it be a religious belief that God gave them dominion over the earth. Could it be a childish belief in immortality that makes youth such risk takers? Could it be an egotism that can admit to no fault that their personal actions are harming others? Could it be a fear of change?

What aspect of the Greenhouse Theory that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that CO2 is produced in the burning of hydrocarbons is in question.?

Moonbeam, how many times do we have to go down this road? There's a high degree of legitimate dissent in the scientific community on this very complex subject. But, that particular fact seems to blow right by you...doesn't it? Instead you want to vilify, belittle and pyschoanalyze those who have the audacity to disagree with your closed minded, simplistic view of world climatology.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognize and acknowledge that manmade GW is not an irrefutable fact or even close to it. There's a lot of scientists that think otherwise who are much smarter than either of us....well smarter than me anyway.

Well said blackangst1.:thumbsup:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It would be fascinating to put people who doubt global warming on a psychiatrist's couch and try to see what makes them tick. Could it be a religious belief that God gave them dominion over the earth. Could it be a childish belief in immortality that makes youth such risk takers? Could it be an egotism that can admit to no fault that their personal actions are harming others? Could it be a fear of change?

What aspect of the Greenhouse Theory that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that CO2 is produced in the burning of hydrocarbons is in question.?

Moonbeam, how many times do we have to go down this road? There's a high degree of legitimate dissent in the scientific community on this very complex subject. But, that particular fact seems to blow right by you...doesn't it? Instead you want to vilify, belittle and pyschoanalyze those who have the audacity to disagree with your closed minded, simplistic view of world climatology.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognize and acknowledge that manmade GW is not an irrefutable fact or even close to it. There's a lot of scientists that think otherwise who are much smarter than either of us....well smarter than me anyway.

Well said blackangst1.:thumbsup:

The only "Scientists" righties pointed to have been shown to be on the payroll of such companies such as Exxon.

 

[ayabe]

Here's a tidbit for you folks:

Philip Cooney is the former chief of staff to President Bush?s Council on Environmental Quality who made hundreds of edits to government climate reports in ways that played down links between human activity and global warming. He worked for the American Petroleum Institute before coming to the Bush administration, and left the White House for Exxon shortly after his edits were revealed.

Cooney appeared yesterday before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. Committee chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) told Cooney he wanted to determine whether what is ?driving the policy of this administration on global warming and climate change is the science or whether it?s something called the politically correct science.?

Cooney admitted it was the latter: ?My objective was to align these communications with the administration?s stated policy? of climate skepticism.


Text

******************************************************

The link goes on to try to link this with fixing facts about the war, and I won't spread that into this thread.

However, every citizen should be alarmed that reports funded by tax payers are being edited if they don't comply with this or any other Administrations opinions, esp. science.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It would be fascinating to put people who doubt global warming on a psychiatrist's couch and try to see what makes them tick. Could it be a religious belief that God gave them dominion over the earth. Could it be a childish belief in immortality that makes youth such risk takers? Could it be an egotism that can admit to no fault that their personal actions are harming others? Could it be a fear of change?

What aspect of the Greenhouse Theory that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that CO2 is produced in the burning of hydrocarbons is in question.?

Moonbeam, how many times do we have to go down this road? There's a high degree of legitimate dissent in the scientific community on this very complex subject. But, that particular fact seems to blow right by you...doesn't it? Instead you want to vilify, belittle and pyschoanalyze those who have the audacity to disagree with your closed minded, simplistic view of world climatology.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognize and acknowledge that manmade GW is not an irrefutable fact or even close to it. There's a lot of scientists that think otherwise who are much smarter than either of us....well smarter than me anyway.

Well said blackangst1.:thumbsup:

Did I present a Personal opinion? Did I say man made global warming is a fact? I think what i said was that CO2 in the atmosphere causes the planet to heat, as far as I know, and was inviting others to challenge that assertion. Then I added that humans are burning hydrocarbons. I left it to the smart people to tell me what that means.

It goes something like this:

If CO2 causes the planet to heat and humans are creating CO2, are humans causing the planet to heat?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It would be fascinating to put people who doubt global warming on a psychiatrist's couch and try to see what makes them tick. Could it be a religious belief that God gave them dominion over the earth. Could it be a childish belief in immortality that makes youth such risk takers? Could it be an egotism that can admit to no fault that their personal actions are harming others? Could it be a fear of change?

What aspect of the Greenhouse Theory that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that CO2 is produced in the burning of hydrocarbons is in question.?

Moonbeam, how many times do we have to go down this road? There's a high degree of legitimate dissent in the scientific community on this very complex subject. But, that particular fact seems to blow right by you...doesn't it? Instead you want to vilify, belittle and pyschoanalyze those who have the audacity to disagree with your closed minded, simplistic view of world climatology.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognize and acknowledge that manmade GW is not an irrefutable fact or even close to it. There's a lot of scientists that think otherwise who are much smarter than either of us....well smarter than me anyway.

Well said blackangst1.:thumbsup:

Did I present a Personal opinion? Did I say man made global warming is a fact? I think what i said was that CO2 in the atmosphere causes the planet to heat, as far as I know, and was inviting others to challenge that assertion. Then I added that humans are burning hydrocarbons. I left it to the smart people to tell me what that means.

It goes something like this:

If CO2 causes the planet to heat and humans are creating CO2, are humans causing the planet to heat?

Come on Moon...you missed my point. Can you at least acknowledge we have no clue as to how much we are contributing? And can you at least acknowledge that any efforts mankind makes ***MAY*** have no effect whatsoever? Again...I dont think us "anti GW" people are disputing whether or not the planet is warming or not. Again...it's a question of how much mankind is actually contributing to it. THAT is something I really dont think can be quantified.

As with everything I tend to fall in the middle and consider both sides. IMHO both sides of this debate has its wackos, and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It would be fascinating to put people who doubt global warming on a psychiatrist's couch and try to see what makes them tick. Could it be a religious belief that God gave them dominion over the earth. Could it be a childish belief in immortality that makes youth such risk takers? Could it be an egotism that can admit to no fault that their personal actions are harming others? Could it be a fear of change?

What aspect of the Greenhouse Theory that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that CO2 is produced in the burning of hydrocarbons is in question.?

Moonbeam, how many times do we have to go down this road? There's a high degree of legitimate dissent in the scientific community on this very complex subject. But, that particular fact seems to blow right by you...doesn't it? Instead you want to vilify, belittle and pyschoanalyze those who have the audacity to disagree with your closed minded, simplistic view of world climatology.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognize and acknowledge that manmade GW is not an irrefutable fact or even close to it. There's a lot of scientists that think otherwise who are much smarter than either of us....well smarter than me anyway.

Well said blackangst1.:thumbsup:

The only "Scientists" righties pointed to have been shown to be on the payroll of such companies such as Exxon.

So what, are the "Scientists" that the lefties are pointing out doing their research for free?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It would be fascinating to put people who doubt global warming on a psychiatrist's couch and try to see what makes them tick. Could it be a religious belief that God gave them dominion over the earth. Could it be a childish belief in immortality that makes youth such risk takers? Could it be an egotism that can admit to no fault that their personal actions are harming others? Could it be a fear of change?

Could it be scepticism that scientists are infallable?

Here's another "doubter" that supports alt energy (has worked to bring it to market) and has a lower carbon footprint than you. Also hates pollution.

Fern

 

[GoPackGo]

Here is a question:

Does the CO2 from cars get to the upper atmosphere?

In addition A very small percentage of the atmosphere is CO2

 

[lozina]

so far looks like a good documentary.

they make good points that make alot of sense. I may be flipping now from believing in man made global warming back to being skeptical about it.

I'm watching it on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU

 

[Kntx]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Kntx

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: shoegazer
It's the same old arguments that have been disproved over and over again. Scientific ideas are adapted to work with new research, but anti-global warming supporters just keep railing on the same old junk.

Have you seen the show? I didn't think it had aired yet.

I really don't understand the rigid, almost fanatical stand from some people on this issue. To dismiss the very real possibility that man is not the direct cause of climate change... In other words, to admit that in fact, the earth's climate is dynamic, not static seems to be almost painful for some.

Nobody says that. Nobody denies the Earth's climate is dynamic. The issue is the change occuring NOW and the predicted changes still to come that are due to man's influence.

And therein lies the rub. You seem to think this a given fact, when, in reality, it is not. The subject has been politicized by the shrill left to the point that they've lost all reasonable credibility on the subject. Despite your political or personal agenda?MANMADE GW IS NOT A FACT?it's a theory that's unproven and many highly qualified scientists disagree with this theory.

So what if it isn't a FACT? I would expect there to be dissent within the scientific community. Disagreements over the nature of gravity doesn't stop it from pulling you towards the earth. The POINT is that the body of evidence demands action. The potential consequences demand action.

If let's say climate change is not occuring. What are the negative consequences of going forward with reducing greenhouse gasses? None.

What are the negative consequences of doing nothing if in fact climate change is occuring? Potential to change life on earth as we know it.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

dmcowen674, here's a small list for you to get started with. There are about 30 scientists on this page who are 'nonbelievers'...prove to me that they're all Exxon shills. Otherwise, retract your statement as false. If you cannot do either...then please refrain from posting so that some honest dialog can occur in this thread.

So ayabe...what is it? Another right wing Bush conspiracy? That's it...that's the ticket! :roll:

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It would be fascinating to put people who doubt global warming on a psychiatrist's couch and try to see what makes them tick. Could it be a religious belief that God gave them dominion over the earth. Could it be a childish belief in immortality that makes youth such risk takers? Could it be an egotism that can admit to no fault that their personal actions are harming others? Could it be a fear of change?

What aspect of the Greenhouse Theory that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that CO2 is produced in the burning of hydrocarbons is in question.?

Moonbeam, how many times do we have to go down this road? There's a high degree of legitimate dissent in the scientific community on this very complex subject. But, that particular fact seems to blow right by you...doesn't it? Instead you want to vilify, belittle and pyschoanalyze those who have the audacity to disagree with your closed minded, simplistic view of world climatology.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognize and acknowledge that manmade GW is not an irrefutable fact or even close to it. There's a lot of scientists that think otherwise who are much smarter than either of us....well smarter than me anyway.

Well said blackangst1.:thumbsup:

Did I present a Personal opinion? Did I say man made global warming is a fact? I think what i said was that CO2 in the atmosphere causes the planet to heat, as far as I know, and was inviting others to challenge that assertion. Then I added that humans are burning hydrocarbons. I left it to the smart people to tell me what that means.

It goes something like this:

If CO2 causes the planet to heat and humans are creating CO2, are humans causing the planet to heat?

Moonbeam, you certainly gave that impression. So, are you telling me that agree that GW may be caused by other factors than mankind? Do you agree that people who believe this are not intellectually or morally inferior to you or to those who advocate manmade GW? I've got to ask since your previous post certainly implies the opposite.

 

[lozina]

Well from reading this thread after watching the first half of the documentary I can certainly see one point proven true: the people who believe man contributes significantly to global warming take very militant, stubborn stances and are afraid to even consider the alternative let alone open up for discussion.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: lozina
Well from reading this thread after watching the first half of the documentary I can certainly see one point proven true: the people who believe man contributes significantly to global warming take very militant, stubborn stances and are afraid to even consider the alternative let alone open up for discussion.

Alright, show that man's impact is tiny. Not by comparing his output to some other factor that is relatively constant.

If termites are to be the cause, show that 100-200 years ago, there weren't any.

No one is denying that climate changes on its own, but the 'GW doubters' are trying to pretend CO2 hasn't gone through every historical ceiling in a matter of decades, or that this wouldn't matter.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
You seem to think this a given fact, when, in reality, it is not.

The subject has been politicized by the shrill left to the point that they've lost all reasonable credibility on the subject.

Despite your political or personal agenda?MANMADE GW IS NOT A FACT?it's a theory that's unproven and many highly qualified scientists disagree with this theory.

You honestly believe cutting down forestation over a majority of the planet and pumping the pollutants man does into the atmosphere has absolutely no effect on the planet?

That's not what I said. Obviously, pollution and deforestation are problems. You seem to be missing the point.

You seem to be missing the point of, who cares why it is happening. OK, if you feel better, we don't blame you.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
dmcowen674, here's a small list for you to get started with. There are about 30 scientists on this page who are 'nonbelievers'...prove to me that they're all Exxon shills. Otherwise, retract your statement as false.

If you cannot do either...then please refrain from posting so that some honest dialog can occur in this thread.

Just a quick glance clearly shows paid shills by the Oil Barons:

George V. Chilingar, professor of civil and petroleum engineering at the University of Southern California,

David Deming, geology professor at the University of Oklahoma: ( a school very close to the local Oil Industry)

Martin Keeley [27], Director of oil and gas exploration consultancy Fieldco International Ltd.:

Nice try, try again

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
dmcowen674, here's a small list for you to get started with. There are about 30 scientists on this page who are 'nonbelievers'...prove to me that they're all Exxon shills. Otherwise, retract your statement as false.

If you cannot do either...then please refrain from posting so that some honest dialog can occur in this thread.

Just a quick glance clearly shows paid shills by the Oil Barons:

George V. Chilingar, professor of civil and petroleum engineering at the University of Southern California,

David Deming, geology professor at the University of Oklahoma: ( a school very close to the local Oil Industry)

Martin Keeley [27], Director of oil and gas exploration consultancy Fieldco International Ltd.:

Nice try, try again

Where is that list of scientists on your side that are doing all volunteer work and have absolutely nothing to gain from endorseing man made global warming?

 

[shoegazer]

Originally posted by: JD50
Where is that list of scientists on your side that are doing all volunteer work and have absolutely nothing to gain from endorseing man made global warming?

If it was all about money, don't you think that the oil companies would have most of the scientists on their side, being that they are some of the wealthiest corporations in the world?

The fact is, most scientists that are actually publishing research on climate change in peer-reviewed journals think that much of the warming is man-made.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: lozina
Well from reading this thread after watching the first half of the documentary I can certainly see one point proven true: the people who believe man contributes significantly to global warming take very militant, stubborn stances and are afraid to even consider the alternative let alone open up for discussion.

Alright, show that man's impact is tiny. Not by comparing his output to some other factor that is relatively constant.

If termites are to be the cause, show that 100-200 years ago, there weren't any.

No one is denying that climate changes on its own, but the 'GW doubters' are trying to pretend CO2 hasn't gone through every historical ceiling in a matter of decades, or that this wouldn't matter.

Well how do we know how co2 contributes to global warming? And is it co2 which rises which causes temps to rise or is it vice versa?

This documentary explains very well how normal solar activity is causing global warming, and the data they present is very convincing.