The Great Flood and Noah's Ark

[bsobel]

(Nice picture of one of the Chevrons, helps put the tsunami in perspective)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/science/14WAVE.html

More on the Indian Ocean event:

http://mathildasweirdworldwebl...d-to-may-10th-2807-bc/

"But they might have more trouble believing one of the scientists, Bruce Masse, an environmental archaeologist at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. He thinks he can say precisely when the comet fell: on the morning of May 10, 2807 B.C.

Dr. Masse analyzed 175 flood myths from around the world, and tried to relate them to known and accurately dated natural events like solar eclipses and volcanic eruptions. Among other evidence, he said, 14 flood myths specifically mention a full solar eclipse, which could have been the one that occurred in May 2807 B.C.

Half the myths talk of a torrential downpour, Dr. Masse said. A third talk of a tsunami. Worldwide they describe hurricane force winds and darkness during the storm. All of these could come from a mega-tsunami.[/b]

This information is comaptible with the dating of the Sumerian flood layer from between 2750 and 2900 BC. The great flood is described thus..

All the windstorms, exceedingly powerful,
Attacked as one,
At the same time, the flood sweeps over the cult-centers.
After, for seven days,
the flood sweeps over the cult centers.
After, for seven days and seven nights,
The flood had swept over the land,
And the huge boat had been tossed
About by the windstorms on the great waters,

Sounds like a mega tsunami with simultaneous heavy rainstorms. It seems pretty clear from this text that the rain didn?t cause the flood, but happened at the same time.

 

[SAWYER]

What is the Indian Ocean event?

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Sawyer
What is the Indian Ocean event?

I mentioned it in my first post, but look at the post right above you, it has links

 

[hanoverphist]

i look at the stories in the bible as guideline accounts of how the originators (of the bible, not the world) want people to act and live. i dont necessarily believe any of them actually happened, but are moral sign posts created to both motivate and limit people to being good overall.

to me, the bible is one huge motivational speech. i dont put any more weight on the stories being real than i do the story of washington chopping down a cherry tree.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
i look at the stories in the bible as guideline accounts of how the originators (of the bible, not the world) want people to act and live. i dont necessarily believe any of them actually happened, but are moral sign posts created to both motivate and limit people to being good overall.

to me, the bible is one huge motivational speech. i dont put any more weight on the stories being real than i do the story of washington chopping down a cherry tree.

That's prtty much what it should be viewed as. Same goes for numerous other ancient and religious texts that are still read today.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: bsobel
(Nice picture of one of the Chevrons, helps put the tsunami in perspective)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/science/14WAVE.html

More on the Indian Ocean event:

http://mathildasweirdworldwebl...d-to-may-10th-2807-bc/

"But they might have more trouble believing one of the scientists, Bruce Masse, an environmental archaeologist at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. He thinks he can say precisely when the comet fell: on the morning of May 10, 2807 B.C.

Dr. Masse analyzed 175 flood myths from around the world, and tried to relate them to known and accurately dated natural events like solar eclipses and volcanic eruptions. Among other evidence, he said, 14 flood myths specifically mention a full solar eclipse, which could have been the one that occurred in May 2807 B.C.

Half the myths talk of a torrential downpour, Dr. Masse said. A third talk of a tsunami. Worldwide they describe hurricane force winds and darkness during the storm. All of these could come from a mega-tsunami.[/b]

This information is comaptible with the dating of the Sumerian flood layer from between 2750 and 2900 BC. The great flood is described thus..

All the windstorms, exceedingly powerful,
Attacked as one,
At the same time, the flood sweeps over the cult-centers.
After, for seven days,
the flood sweeps over the cult centers.
After, for seven days and seven nights,
The flood had swept over the land,
And the huge boat had been tossed
About by the windstorms on the great waters,

Sounds like a mega tsunami with simultaneous heavy rainstorms. It seems pretty clear from this text that the rain didn?t cause the flood, but happened at the same time.

If their sole datapoint is "looking at google earth," color me skeptical.

 

[bsobel]

If their sole datapoint is "looking at google earth," color me skeptical.

Did you read the article (google there are a bunch from very reputable sources), they found the impact crater. They simply used Google earth to help locate the series of chevrons which literally pointed them to where to search for the crater. The impact location was found...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burckle_crater

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: bsobel

If their sole datapoint is "looking at google earth," color me skeptical.

Did you read the article (google there are a bunch from very reputable sources), they found the impact crater. They simply used Google earth to help locate the series of chevrons which literally pointed them to where to search for the crater. The impact location was found...

sweet, there's a Chevron down the street. I'm a gonna look for meteorite bits.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

It happened, however I believe it's mis-interpreted as being the literal sense instead of the figurative sense.

A guy builds a boat, shoves two of each of his livestock on it, and everywhere he knew got covered with water, and it took him a long time to find land again, and he had to start over. This makes perfect sense. His world, being everywhere he ever saw, knew, and all the way to the horizon got covered with water. To him, that was everything. A boat that can fit two cows, two horses, two chickens, and two goats on it isn't unfeasable at all.

What ISN'T possible is two of every species on earth for 40 days. Someone's gotta eat, and someone's going to be dinner if you know what I mean. And it would take a really really long time to spread the animals throughout the globe. And lets face it, once you open the gates and let the animals out on their own it's going to be a food chain demonstration.

 

[bsobel]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/14/news/meteor.php (same as the NYT article but shouldn't require login)

 

[lokiju]

I don't think the world did flood but I'd also keep in mind that the whole "world" back then was a very small part of the actual world.

So maybe if some localized flooding actually did happen a long time ago it could have been perceived as the whole world flooding.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: lokiju
I don't think the world did flood but I'd also keep in mind that the whole "world" back then was a very small part of the actual world.

So maybe if some localized flooding actually did happen a long time ago it could have been perceived as the whole world flooding.

Well that and the world was flat

 

[So]

Originally posted by: bsobel

If their sole datapoint is "looking at google earth," color me skeptical.

Did you read the article (google there are a bunch from very reputable sources), they found the impact crater. They simply used Google earth to help locate the series of chevrons which literally pointed them to where to search for the crater. The impact location was found...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burckle_crater

That's a terrible article. The only source mentioned is a news article talking about the same stuff the blog post mentions, and a link to the location of this crater. Following that link, I see nothing that looks like a crater, and the article still provides no evidence that it exists other than "we looked at google earth"

Edit: I did more research, and I can't find a SINGLE reputable source mentioning this Burckle crater, much less providing evidence that it exists.

 

[bsobel]

Edit: I did more research, and I can't find a SINGLE reputable source mentioning this Burckle crater, much less providing evidence that it exists.

I guess Columbia University isn't reputable

 

[randay]

LOL @ burckle crater

 

[Mr. Lennon]

These results are kind of scary. Half the people that voted actually believe a man grabbed every single living organism, put them on a boat, and set sail on a ocean that covered the whole world for 40 days/nights.

Whats weird to me is the fact that the same people who believe in the tale of Noah's Arc don't believe in stories such as Odysseus and his journey. Both are mystical and far fetched....

 

[So]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Edit: I did more research, and I can't find a SINGLE reputable source mentioning this Burckle crater, much less providing evidence that it exists.

I guess Columbia University isn't reputable

Once again, you didn't provide a source, so I looked it up myself. The source is: this

I'd like to note, that he doesn't say HOW he's found a crater. Just because he works at Columbia doesn't mean he's competent. The thing that scares me is that it jumps to conclusions about causing upheaval without talking in much detail about the impact event, or providing more thorough evidence.

Especially important is the following sentence: "However, the impact that produced Burckle crater is not large enough to produce globally devastating rains."

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
These results are kind of scary. Half the people that voted actually believe a man grabbed every single living organism, put them on a boat, and set sail on a ocean that covered the whole world for 40 days/nights.

Whats weird to me is the fact that the same people who believe in the tale of Noah's Arc don't believe in stories such as Odysseus and his journey. Both are mystical and far fetched....

Some people are leaders and some are followers.

 

[bsobel]

Especially important is the following sentence: "However, the impact that produced Burckle crater is not large enough to produce globally devastating rains."

The sentence you edited to exclude "We postulate a Shoemaker-Levy type event with multiple sites of large impact, including one site in the northern hemisphere. We are searching for this ejecta layer in a marsh core from Black Rock forest."

http://archaeology.about.com/g.../tsun.sscc.ru/proj.htm

Sheesh, give the good Dr. a call http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~dallas/ and tell her you don't like her methods

 

[Gooberlx2]

Great flood in the sense that a huge Tsunami might have wiped out some coastal area for about a 1.5 months...I could believe that...at best.

 

[bsobel]

Just because he works at Columbia doesn't mean he's competent.

Well she got her BS at MIT and her MS and PHD in Marine Geology from Columbia. But, I'm sure you know more than she does, your on the internet so that clearly makes you an expert in every topic.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Just because he works at Columbia doesn't mean he's competent.

Well she got her BS at MIT and her MS and PHD in Marine Geology from Columbia. But, I'm sure you know more than she does, you're on the internet so that clearly makes you an expert in every topic.

Look, argument from authority is not a valid argument tactic. Just because this individual has degrees from reputable institutions does NOT mean she's right. IIRC, Fred Phelps was a reputable attorney at one time. Many professors hold some really silly ideas.

It is valid and prudent to be skeptical of extraordinary claims in the absence of extraordinary evidence, no matter who makes the claim.

Something this big has to be evidenced from multiple people and discussed thoroughly before it is reasonable to accept it as a preferable explanation to a simple hypothesis that requires a massive previously unobserved impact event.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: Baked
Fairy tales. Some people believe in Santa Claus too.

The results of the poll are both frightening and disappointing.

107 people out of 234 actually believe in a literal, biblical flood.

The tooth fairly is more believable. At least she provides tangible, reproducible results: Put a tooth under your pillow, receive currency the following morning.

 

[sutahz]

Second, the whole story can be dismissed as a series of supernatural miracles. There is no way to contradict such an argument. However, one must wonder about a God who reportedly does one thing and then arranges every bit of evidence to make it look like something else happened. It's entirely possible that a global flood occurred 4000 years ago or even last Thursday, and that God subsequently erased all the evidence, including our memories of it. But even if such stories are true, what's the point?

Crono's responce. If he believes, he believes. We are free to feel he's a fool, he is free to feel we are the fools.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: bsobel

Just because he works at Columbia doesn't mean he's competent.

Well she got her BS at MIT and her MS and PHD in Marine Geology from Columbia. But, I'm sure you know more than she does, you're on the internet so that clearly makes you an expert in every topic.

Look, argument from authority is not a valid argument tactic. Just because this individual has degrees from reputable institutions does NOT mean she's right. IIRC, Fred Phelps was a reputable attorney at one time. Many professors hold some really silly ideas.

Look, this isn't some PHD trying to find Noah's ark and claiming its in Turkey. This is someone who's research suggests that impact events are more common than we thought they were. For some time it was believed they were 100k year events, then 10k year events. A group of people is suggesting it could be as low as 1k year events.

As I posted, I personally believe much more research is needed here. When I see valid studies finding impact events, the large chevrons (remember, the crater was found from triangulating the the chevrons). No one is really arguing if an impact occurred, the debate is more around when it occurred. I find the impact event fits Occam's best. It accounts for why widely dispersed populations have a similar mythological story. It also (at least to me) accounts for why the last 5k years of human societal evolution has been much more distinct than the last 50k years. This is the first good run we've had at it in awhile