The Golden Rule

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Amused
Unless you are omniscient, you have no choice but to make the best effort you can, and that requires very little work other than simply treating others as you would wish to be treated.

Your argument of offenses so great ties are cut rarely if ever happens within a single culture, but is more likely to happen cross culture. In that case, a simple study of cultural norms would be the thing to do... because that is what you would wish the other person to do as well.

Not if you like your privacy . Secret clubs and societies don't like people learning about their cultures. Some cultures are very racist in that they only like those that are naturally born into their culture to know it.

Don't get me wrong, the golden rule, as you said, works somewhat well in a society where people have the same standards, beliefs and cultures. But individuality and vastly different beliefs can through a monkey wrench into the system.

If everyone on the planet lived the golden rule, the world would be a better place for sure. Heck even an increase in the people following it would provide a marked increase in how "good" life is for everyone. I'm just saying it is the golden rule, not the perfect rule.

 

[datalink7]

I used to hold the Golden Rule as a rule that, as you said, trancenced everything.

However, over the years I came to view it as inadequate an, in fact, dangerous just by itself. So I came up with my own "Golden Rule."

"Do Unto Others As They Deserve."

I feel this is a much better philosophical base to start from. The original Golden Rule still fits in there, but it is no longer my over-arching philosophy.

Of course, it all goes deeper than this as I've spent a lot of time developing much of my ethical conduct (I'm not religious so I couldn't draw any of it from religion).

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Farang
That rule works but you've got to avoid the types that try to walk all over you.

That's the beauty of it! No where in the Golden Rule does it say one must give up their self respect or fail to defend themselves.

No, but it implies it. Which is why I came up with something else (see other post).

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: datalink7
I used to hold the Golden Rule as a rule that, as you said, trancenced everything.

However, over the years I came to view it as inadequate an, in fact, dangerous just by itself. So I came up with my own "Golden Rule."

"Do Unto Others As They Deserve."

I feel this is a much better philosophical base to start from. The original Golden Rule still fits in there, but it is no longer my over-arching philosophy.

Of course, it all goes deeper than this as I've spent a lot of time developing much of my ethical conduct (I'm not religious so I couldn't draw any of it from religion).

How do you know what they deserve?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Amused
Unless you are omniscient, you have no choice but to make the best effort you can, and that requires very little work other than simply treating others as you would wish to be treated.

Your argument of offenses so great ties are cut rarely if ever happens within a single culture, but is more likely to happen cross culture. In that case, a simple study of cultural norms would be the thing to do... because that is what you would wish the other person to do as well.

Not if you like your privacy . Secret clubs and societies don't like people learning about their cultures. Some cultures are very racist in that they only like those that are naturally born into their culture to know it.

Don't get me wrong, the golden rule, as you said, works somewhat well in a society where people have the same standards, beliefs and cultures. But individuality and vastly different beliefs can through a monkey wrench into the system.

If everyone on the planet lived the golden rule, the world would be a better place for sure. Heck even an increase in the people following it would provide a marked increase in how "good" life is for everyone. I'm just saying it is the golden rule, not the perfect rule.

Find me a more "perfect" one.

People, especially geeks, love to over-complicate things. Others do so simply to try and discredit it. But in the end, it is the single most effective way to live one's life if for nothing more than purely selfish reasons.

Nothing in life is "perfect." We're speaking of human nature here. But some things are more effective and/or logical than others. I have found that that the Golden Rule in one of those things.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: rudeguy

Originally posted by: datalink7
I used to hold the Golden Rule as a rule that, as you said, trancenced everything.

However, over the years I came to view it as inadequate an, in fact, dangerous just by itself. So I came up with my own "Golden Rule."

"Do Unto Others As They Deserve."

I feel this is a much better philosophical base to start from. The original Golden Rule still fits in there, but it is no longer my over-arching philosophy.

Of course, it all goes deeper than this as I've spent a lot of time developing much of my ethical conduct (I'm not religious so I couldn't draw any of it from religion).

How do you know what they deserve?

You don't, intitially. Which I why I said I didn't throw out the original Golden Rule. You start with that, but you can't (IMO) have it as the over-arching code. It is insufficient unless you want a world where the bad guy walks all over the good guy.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: datalink7
I used to hold the Golden Rule as a rule that, as you said, trancenced everything.

However, over the years I came to view it as inadequate an, in fact, dangerous just by itself. So I came up with my own "Golden Rule."

"Do Unto Others As They Deserve."

I feel this is a much better philosophical base to start from. The original Golden Rule still fits in there, but it is no longer my over-arching philosophy.

Of course, it all goes deeper than this as I've spent a lot of time developing much of my ethical conduct (I'm not religious so I couldn't draw any of it from religion).

Who are you to judge what others "deserve?"

Just because an ethic stems from religion does not automatically disqualify it from consideration. Honestly that smacks of intellectual bias.

I'm sorry, but your ethical code is not one of reciprocity, but one of retribution and revenge. It can only lead to escalations of bitterness and hate.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: rudeguy

Originally posted by: datalink7
I used to hold the Golden Rule as a rule that, as you said, trancenced everything.

However, over the years I came to view it as inadequate an, in fact, dangerous just by itself. So I came up with my own "Golden Rule."

"Do Unto Others As They Deserve."

I feel this is a much better philosophical base to start from. The original Golden Rule still fits in there, but it is no longer my over-arching philosophy.

Of course, it all goes deeper than this as I've spent a lot of time developing much of my ethical conduct (I'm not religious so I couldn't draw any of it from religion).

How do you know what they deserve?

You don't, intitially. Which I why I said I didn't throw out the original Golden Rule. You start with that, but you can't (IMO) have it as the over-arching code. It is insufficient unless you want a world where the bad guy walks all over the good guy.

As I have said before, No where in the Golden Rule does it say one must give up their self respect or fail to defend themselves.

And no, it doesn't even imply it.

 

[dighn]

I believe strongly in the ethic of reciprocity. It serves as the basis for my secular moral beliefs. Though I find the Confucian version of it more realistic in this mostly selfish world: do not do to others what you don't want done to you.

 

[Bulk Beef]

Bulk Beef's Corollary to the Golden Rule:

Do unto others as one can reasonably expect they wish do be done unto them.

Gives me a little more wiggle room.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: dighn
I believe strongly in the ethic of reciprocity. It serves as the basis for my secular moral beliefs. Though I find the Confucian version of it more realistic in this mostly selfish world: do not do to others what you don't want done to you.

The world is, and will always be selfish. Selfishness is human nature, and for good reason if you think about it. Altruism is slavery. Living your live for someone/everyone else is not a good way to live and attempts to make mindless worker bees of us all.

 

[EGGO]

Sorta like how Christians believe in god because they selfishly want to go into heaven?

*runs before the flames rise from the ground*

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: datalink7
I used to hold the Golden Rule as a rule that, as you said, trancenced everything.

However, over the years I came to view it as inadequate an, in fact, dangerous just by itself. So I came up with my own "Golden Rule."

"Do Unto Others As They Deserve."

I feel this is a much better philosophical base to start from. The original Golden Rule still fits in there, but it is no longer my over-arching philosophy.

Of course, it all goes deeper than this as I've spent a lot of time developing much of my ethical conduct (I'm not religious so I couldn't draw any of it from religion).

Who are you to judge what others "deserve?"

Just because an ethic stems from religion does not automatically disqualify it from consideration. Honestly that smacks of intellectual bias.

I'm sorry, but your ethical code is not one of reciprocity, but one of retribution and revenge. It can only lead to escalations of bitterness and hate.

I haven't disqualified it from consideration, or any part of any religion. In fact, it is a large part of my ethical code (see other post). Your assumption and immediate move to personal attacks smacks of intellectual bias.

Aside: the Golden Rule was first postulated, as far as I know, by Buddha years before Christianity came up with it. Does anyone know of an earlier version?

As for your last paragraph, I don't see where you can assume this. You've essentially extrapolated that my ethical code is one of "bitterness and hate" based on... what? Treating people as they deserve doesn't mean take revenge on them, or go punch them in the face. Most people deserve to be treated kindly and with respect (or so I feel. I know many who would debate this point).

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Amused
Find me a more "perfect" one.

People, especially geeks, love to over-complicate things. Others do so simply to try and discredit it. But in the end, it is the single most effective way to live one's life if for nothing more than purely selfish reasons.

Nothing in life is "perfect." We're speaking of human nature here. But some things are more effective and/or logical than others. I have found that that the Golden Rule in one of those things.

Just because I can't find a better law at this moment doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. But, thats the geek in me that loves to debate. For me a perfect rule would pretty much have to have a case that encompasses every circumstance that can or may occurs and how to behave in that situation. But thats not exactly practical for everyone to learn as the rule would necessarily be infinitively long.

Now, you wouldn't want your thread to have no nay-sayers, I know I wouldn't .

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: rudeguy

Originally posted by: datalink7
I used to hold the Golden Rule as a rule that, as you said, trancenced everything.

However, over the years I came to view it as inadequate an, in fact, dangerous just by itself. So I came up with my own "Golden Rule."

"Do Unto Others As They Deserve."

I feel this is a much better philosophical base to start from. The original Golden Rule still fits in there, but it is no longer my over-arching philosophy.

Of course, it all goes deeper than this as I've spent a lot of time developing much of my ethical conduct (I'm not religious so I couldn't draw any of it from religion).

How do you know what they deserve?

You don't, intitially. Which I why I said I didn't throw out the original Golden Rule. You start with that, but you can't (IMO) have it as the over-arching code. It is insufficient unless you want a world where the bad guy walks all over the good guy.

As I have said before, No where in the Golden Rule does it say one must give up their self respect or fail to defend themselves.

And no, it doesn't even imply it.

I feel it does imply it. You don't want to get punched in the face? The Golden Rule says you don't then punch people in the face. It doesn't have a caveat in there that says "don't punch people in the face unless they punch you in the face, then it is ok." That is how I see it.

 

[Svnla]

OP = Repost X 1000000000000

See my several years old sig

 

[Baked]

Oh you mean Karma. Yeah that shit don't work. Your golden rule? More bullshit. It may work for you, but it doesn't work for everybody.

 

[SlitheryDee]

The golden rule only works when other people also follow it. If my code of ethics is based around the golden rule and the other guy's code of ethics is based around "Treat SlitheryDee like shit" then we're going to have some pretty one-sided dealings with each other. Of course I could avoid this one person who has it in for me, but what about other people whose codes of ethics are as varied as they are?

 

[BeauJangles]

Thanks Amused, that was an inspiring read

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: TallBill
You didn't even post the golden rule?

alkymyst is always right.

(>T_')>

 

[Shadow Conception]

Golden rule and karma are the results of humans trying to apply patterns to what they experience in their daily lives.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: KLin

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: TallBill
You didn't even post the golden rule?

alkymyst is always right.

The silver rule also states if alkemyst is ever wrong, see the golden rule.

I thought the silver rule was "Always hide your porn."

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: KLin

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: TallBill
You didn't even post the golden rule?

alkymyst is always right.

The silver rule also states if alkemyst is ever wrong, see the golden rule.

I thought the silver rule was "Always hide your porn."

for straight guys it is.

 

[clamum]

I pretty much follow the same rule and it works out well for me.

 

[alkemyst]

when your nutz have 24k stamped on them, you make the rules.