The fate of Bill Gate's very first Operating System.

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Spyro

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2001
3,366
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Originally posted by: LikeLinus
<<perhaps we would be a little more sensitive, but he's not, he's disgustingly rich and arrogant, and is in a completely different state of reality from anyone here. >>

Please back this up. I'd like to know what your "sources" are and how you know so much about the man. You know NOTHING but what the media has spoon fed you.

Haters are nothing more than jealous people. Ignore then. They can throw around words about someone they don't even know and hate on them for no real reason.

Well personally I don't really see what all of the fuss about Gates is really about, but these comments of yours seem kinda funny seeing as how you're LikeLinus.

As for whether we should burn Mr. Gates at a verbal stake, think of his wealth while drool pours out of our mouths, praise him with slavering adulation, etc: Uhhh, well maybe it simply doesn't matter :).
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
Originally posted by: drag
I realy don't give much of a care about Bill Gates, And even back then everyone that had a half a brain knew that computers were just going to get better and better. The reason it's funny is the irony, it just goes to show that Bill Gates realy wasn't ever that good at making good technological decisions. The reality is that he just surrounded himself with people that were realy good thinkers about computers but to nieve to realise what he was and when they had a good idea he just ripped them off.

Sure he was a smart business man, but it was just one of those coincedences of time, that he happened to be the right person at the right time to take advantage of the situation. If he came along any later he wouldn't be nearly as rich or powerfull as he is now. He'd probably be climbing the corporate ladder of some ISP, right now eventually becoming CEO and making it company policy to give crappy tech support, just like all his competitors. Bill Gate's as a person is pretty much a bad joke, but that's what it takes to be the type of person he is, so be it.

I'm not even going to listen to some guy who can't spell to save his life. You really can't hold an argument about one of the key innovators of desktop OS when you lack the intelligence to understand the difference between a "coincedences" and a man who realized the future and helped revolutionize the way people utilized it. There were a good number of other companies and personalities that had the potential and the chance to do what he did. Others failed and didn't have the ease of use and quality product that Microsoft had at the time.
 

Spyro

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2001
3,366
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Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: drag
I realy don't give much of a care about Bill Gates, And even back then everyone that had a half a brain knew that computers were just going to get better and better. The reason it's funny is the irony, it just goes to show that Bill Gates realy wasn't ever that good at making good technological decisions. The reality is that he just surrounded himself with people that were realy good thinkers about computers but to nieve to realise what he was and when they had a good idea he just ripped them off.

Sure he was a smart business man, but it was just one of those coincedences of time, that he happened to be the right person at the right time to take advantage of the situation. If he came along any later he wouldn't be nearly as rich or powerfull as he is now. He'd probably be climbing the corporate ladder of some ISP, right now eventually becoming CEO and making it company policy to give crappy tech support, just like all his competitors. Bill Gate's as a person is pretty much a bad joke, but that's what it takes to be the type of person he is, so be it.

I'm not even going to listen to some guy who can't spell to save his life. You really can't hold an argument about one of the key innovators of desktop OS when you lack the intelligence to understand the difference between a "coincedences" and a man who realized the future and helped revolutionize the way people utilized it. There were a good number of other companies and personalities that had the potential and the chance to do what he did. Others failed and didn't have the ease of use and quality product that Microsoft had at the time.

Hahahahaaa! w00t!!! An impersonator!!!! Sez yuo!!!!!

Ahem...... Uhhhh, dude you sound like you've been quite thoroughly brainwashed. Oh yeah and by the way, this is an internet forum dude not a research report.
 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
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Originally posted by: LikeLinus
<<perhaps we would be a little more sensitive, but he's not, he's disgustingly rich and arrogant, and is in a completely different state of reality from anyone here. >>

Please back this up. I'd like to know what your "sources" are and how you know so much about the man. You know NOTHING but what the media has spoon fed you

How would I back it up? Logs of interviews I've had with bill gates? Of course I don't know the guy personally, and I'm the wrong person to accuse of being spoon-fed by the media. The man's actions speak for themselves, if you don't agree with me, I frankly could care less (people disagree with me alllll the time :)), but accusing me of being some spoon-fed drone is not needed.

Haters are nothing more than jealous people.

Hate is nothing more than jealousy? That's an interesting way to look at things.

Ignore then.

Come again?

They can throw around words about someone they don't even know and hate on them for no real reason.

I hate bill gates for the same reason I hate every other corrupt rich little fvcker who is turning this world into sh!t. His crap software doesn't bother me much, the only thing that possibly does bother me about it is that by being so popular, I have to deal with it more, and that annoys me.
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
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Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
I hate bill gates for the same reason I hate every other corrupt rich little fvcker who is turning this world into sh!t. His crap software doesn't bother me much, the only thing that possibly does bother me about it is that by being so popular, I have to deal with it more, and that annoys me.
<sarcasm>It makes me love to lavish even more praise upon Bill Gates when I see how he's making sure that I am protected from my own mistakes by only being allowed to run software that his glorious company gently and lovingly distributes to his loyal customers.</sarcasm>
 

Intelman07

Senior member
Jul 18, 2002
969
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"640K ought to be enough for anybody." = Bill Gates, 1981. Think we will never need more than 3ghz ha.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
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Haha, You know why I don't give a crap about my spelling? Because

#1 I am to lazy to worry about impressing snobs.

#2 I am typing it out at work after a 17 hour work day, doing it as fast as possible while inbetween duties. I am worrying more about being understandable than anything else.

#3 I know that once a person resorts to insulting people based on spelling the person he is instulting has already won the argument. It's like insulting me based on the color of my shirt, or a hole in the ass of my jeans when we are arguing about politics.

Look. Bill Gates is Bill gates. Who gives a s**t? So what he is a rich f**k? Everything he's ever produced is just a repackaged version of some one else's work. His genius is in marketing, not computer science. Most computer geeks should know that Bill himself probably couldn't create enough imaginative programming to pay his way out of a wet paper sack. The fact that people actually think that he is has ever been personally responsible for creating anything other than BASIC just goes to show how effective he is at controlling people's perceptions thru effective marketing. Every single "innovation" he created existed before in other products. MS's continued existance is due more to lawyers and computer magazines then anything creative. (Kevin Mitnick "master of social engineering" my foot, he can't hold a candle to what Bill Gate's is capable of)

Xenix was AT&T's Unix software repacked and ported...

Dos was based off of IBM;s Qdos with a interface pretty much identical to CP/M...

Manipulating windows in Windows is a total rippoff of the MAC, he even took the "apple" menu and put it at the bottom and called the "start" menu, and he took the trash, too. And the little buttons at the top of the windows he just switched over to the opisite side. The only major differences is that MS decided to put the "file,edit,view,ect" menus at the top of each window instead at the top of the screen like MAC's, and instead of having to click the application button at the far top right to switch from active application to active application, he just made up the "taskbar" which is basicly useless with any more than 4 or 5 apps going.. you end up just clicking on random buttons until you call up the open window you want.. Plus the moron who created the "registry" should be dragged out into the street and shot, what a P.O.S. It's just a overblown system.sys file. It makes it nearly impossible to manage installing and uninstalling programs properly and one buggy program install can take out your entire OS...

The latest and greatest from microsoft is AD, which is a blatent rippoff of Novell's network operating system, even down to the terminology used for the "trees" and the "forests" and stuff. Which btw Novell's is superior to W2k in everyway, as the complexity increases the Novell realy shines. During testing Novell clamed it could handle upwards to several million objects, SO MS said they could, too. So a company wrotes scripts and stuff to create a million or so objects of varing complexities and such. Novell handled it with no problem, but W2k bombed horribly around a few hundred thousand.. So W2k was patched and now its ability handle the number of objects that specific test called is a now a "design feature" in happy windows marketing computing land.

The main reason that w2k dominates in terms of numbers of servers is because it takes at least 4 windows servers to equal one decent unix/novell server. So there you automaticly have a 4 to one advantage. Another reason is because back when most small business started using computers it was all dos and windows, so when they needed a file and print server they just used NT, because it worked well enough once set up and it was windows. The poor bastards just didn't know better.

The entire point of starting this thread was to point out a interesting historical footnote. How many people know about Xenix today, it's not realy something MS is happy about putting in it's full page adds in every computing magazine known to mankind, so the majority of windows worker clones only have a vague notion that during Bill Gate's "visionary" stage in the early to mid 80's his vision's and asperations were totally alien to anything he did later with Dos and NT, but it's just weird that people don't seem to understand this. And that's just what it takes to make it in the world of computing, you just can't hold the statis quo and expect to get anywere, you must be adapaptable. Why do you think they bought 30% of Apple?
 

Wintermute76

Senior member
Jan 8, 2003
364
0
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Originally posted by: drag
OK get this:



So Bill's attention turned from Xenix and it was eventually sold to SCO in 95 after Bill was finished screwing around with it as per the fate of most of Unix. SCO (now SCO group with the adittion of caldera) has intigrated it into it's own Unix OS which in turn they are currently trying integrated with, Linux.



Where my father was working, they were running SCO Xenix about 1990-92 with MAS 90 accounting software. I don't know if SCO had the rights on it, but they had their name on it at any rate. Now they're switched over to SCO UNIX.

As for speed, they used to have an old NCR mainframe (7200/7500 series?) about the size of a fridge runnig COBOL, with removeable HDD platters about 14" diameter whose heads would hard crash every summer if it got warmer than 80 degrees out. They went from that to a 386 and compiling the inventory list went from taking 2 weeks to about 5 days. I guess you'll almost always need something faster than the previous generation IMO.
 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
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They went from that to a 386 and compiling the inventory list went from taking 2 weeks to about 5 days. I guess you'll almost always need something faster than the previous generation IMO.

To think... it took this refrigerator-size machine 2 weeks to do it, and a 386 5 days, it would probably take a p4 (potentially as small as a vcr or so) a minute or less :D
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
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Right to use and develope Xenix was sold to SCO in 1985, but MS still had control of it... It wasn't until the 90's when Xenix was sold fully over to SCO. Now in 95 SCO was given complete control over Xenix thru some sort of legal bru-haha in Europe....

pretty much every version of Unix was sold to SCO from one way or the other, I guess they like to have there hand in everything. Thats were AIX came from for IBM , it came from AT&T unix technology they were sold from SCO... That's why SCO is pissed at IBM for pouring UNIX technology into Linux, because then SCO loses out, because we can get part of what SCO UNIX has to offer from Linux stuff from IBM...

and SCO was suppose to be all linux-freindly from being integrated with caldera
weird stuff
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
Ok can we PLEASE be perfectly honest here? You had no reason to write this up other than to try and make Microsoft look bad. You can sit around and say you were trying to ?point out interesting historical footnotes? people all you want, but you?re just an MS and you continue to just talk about how bad Microsoft is vs. Novell and UNIX. It?s obvious what you?re intent was. Also the fact that you called this an ?argument? further shows you know first hand what your intent was.

You want to sit around and talk over and over again about how Microsoft ?stole? other people?s ideas. Well lets break it down very simple. We?ll use cars as an example. Do you realize that a good number of people consider the Model A as the first car ever produced. In fact it was not the first ?car? ever built, but it was the first car built for the masses, not just the wealthy, that could afford it. Windows was designed for the masses. It wasn?t built for the computer geek. It was given a GUI to make ease of use for the general computer fearing public. Does everyone consider Ford a rip-off and scream ?thief? every time you see one of their cars and drudge up history? No, because what they did was INNOVATE and bring a product to the masses. Regardless if they were the first ones to build a car, they took that knowledge, applied it to their own design, and delivered it to the people. The other companies failed to do that. Ford also didn?t create the Fuel Injection System or the Electronic system that is equipped in their cars. Other people created these great ideas, but Ford has incorporated them into their cars. Ford is still considered an innovator though because they brought this wonderful technology to the masses. Does it matter if it was developed by another person/company?

I think the point I?m trying to make here is the fact that all companies uses ideas and features that other companies originally created. Just because Novell created the ?Forest and Tree? structure, Microsoft has utilized that ideology in their product to create something that is easier to use for the end user. In the end we don?t call all these companies thieves and sit around all day trying to point it out. It is how they box that solution and make it easier to use and better flowing with their product that makes it innovative.

PaintShopPro is an obvious rip-off of Photoshop, but you don?t hear people complaining about it? Why not? Because they bring an affordable package to the masses that has the feature sets of a $600 product, but at a $100 price. People don?t care though because it?s not ?big bad Microsoft?. As long as Microsoft and Bill Gates makes billions of dollars, there are going to be people like you who will continue to try and find a way to belittle them and make them look bad. Really, does this all hurt you? For someone who works ?17 hours and can?t catch a break?, why in the world are you wasting your time to write up a slander piece on Microsoft?

FYI Linux didn't used to have a user interface, now they do because they are trying to marketing their product against Microsoft to acquire some shares of the desktop market. So in other words, Linux is essentially is stealing the whole Microsoft design and appeal. Now you have Linux based distros like ?Lindows? and others that are complete and utter rip-offs of Microsoft GUI?s (not to mention the fact the name?) I don?t hear Linux people ranting and raving about that? No I think they have other excuses and better things to rant about :)

If you REALLY wanted to inform people about Xenix, you all you to do is say something simple like this, instead of your obvious attempt to start something

In the late 1970's Microsoft licensed UNIX source code from AT&T which at the time was not licensing the name UNIX. Therefore Microsoft created the name Xenix. Microsoft did not sell Xenix to end-users but instead licensed the software to software OEMs such as Intel, Tandy, Altos and SCO who then provided a finished version of their own Xenix to the end-users or other customers.
SCO introduced its first version of Xenix named SCO Xenix System V for the Intel 8086 and 8088 in 1983. Today SCO Xenix is one of the more commonly used and found versions of Xenix.


Wow that was so hard...

I made fun of your spelling because you are trying to apply some sort of intelligence on the subject, yet you can?t spell simple 5th grade words, it?s atrocious. In this latest ?quick to the press? post you had over 17 misspelled words. Simple words my 6 year old can spell. It?s just pathetic to see someone try and hold an intelligent ?argument? as you call it, when they can?t spell ?statis, automaticly, varing, rippoff, anywere, aperations, realy, opisite, instulting? I mean come on. If you have the time to write 6 paragraphs of text?..
 

Panther505

Senior member
Oct 5, 2000
560
0
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Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Ok can we PLEASE be perfectly honest here? You had no reason to write this up other than to try and make Microsoft look bad. You can sit around and say you were trying to ?point out interesting historical footnotes? people all you want, but you?re just an MS and you continue to just talk about how bad Microsoft is vs. Novell and UNIX. It?s obvious what you?re intent was. Also the fact that you called this an ?argument? further shows you know first hand what your intent was.

Take a deep breath! Microsoft has done it's own work to look bad. The people that hate MS hate them for different reasons. Did MS steal from Apple? - does it matter? MS is a corporation that sole purpose is to make money. They will pay off what they can, litigate what they can't pay off, or buy/price out of existience what they cannot do the first 2 options too. This is what business is all about the almighty dollar.

The whole point of the forums is to communicate ideas and opinions. Now opinions are like buttholes - everyone has one, some are biggers then others, and they all stink. Now what we have to do is to be big enought to realize that some people don't/won't/can't agree and move on.



PaintShopPro is an obvious rip-off of Photoshop, but you don?t hear people complaining about it? Why not? Because they bring an affordable package to the masses that has the feature sets of a $600 product, but at a $100 price. People don?t care though because it?s not ?big bad Microsoft?. As long as Microsoft and Bill Gates makes billions of dollars, there are going to be people like you who will continue to try and find a way to belittle them and make them look bad. Really, does this all hurt you? For someone who works ?17 hours and can?t catch a break?, why in the world are you wasting your time to write up a slander piece on Microsoft?

This is business too. If you can make something cheaper that has the most of the functions of what you are trying to copy at a lesser price then you can sell it and gain market share and increase your development and improve the product. What is it - business.





FYI Linux didn't used to have a user interface, now they do because they are trying to marketing their product against Microsoft to acquire some shares of the desktop market. So in other words, Linux is essentially is stealing the whole Microsoft design and appeal. Now you have Linux based distros like ?Lindows? and others that are complete and utter rip-offs of Microsoft GUI?s (not to mention the fact the name?) I don?t hear Linux people ranting and raving about that? No I think they have other excuses and better things to rant about :)

The GUI- MS stole it from apple (who stole it from Xerox). Apple and Xerox both lost in court about whether or not they stole. Clean room aside eventually all the GUIs will look similar. Besides you design to what looks familar and what people like to use.



If you REALLY wanted to inform people about Xenix, you all you to do is say something simple like this, instead of your obvious attempt to start something

In the late 1970's Microsoft licensed UNIX source code from AT&T which at the time was not licensing the name UNIX. Therefore Microsoft created the name Xenix. Microsoft did not sell Xenix to end-users but instead licensed the software to software OEMs such as Intel, Tandy, Altos and SCO who then provided a finished version of their own Xenix to the end-users or other customers.
SCO introduced its first version of Xenix named SCO Xenix System V for the Intel 8086 and 8088 in 1983. Today SCO Xenix is one of the more commonly used and found versions of Xenix.


Wow that was so hard...


That is opinion on presentation - see previous statements on opinions.


I made fun of your spelling because you are trying to apply some sort of intelligence on the subject, yet you can?t spell simple 5th grade words, it?s atrocious. In this latest ?quick to the press? post you had over 17 misspelled words. Simple words my 6 year old can spell. It?s just pathetic to see someone try and hold an intelligent ?argument? as you call it, when they can?t spell ?statis, automaticly, varing, rippoff, anywere, aperations, realy, opisite, instulting? I mean come on. If you have the time to write 6 paragraphs of text?..

Spelling is not an indication of intelligence. I can spell. I take the time to carefully form my thoughts but quite often I mispell somethings because I have typing issues and often they end up in the posts because I read what I was thinking not what is really there. Get over it. Remeber that one of the greatest minds of the Renassiance was dyslexic (sp? - cause I am too lazy to look it up!) and that it was supposed the the Madrid Codices were "encrypted" not just spelled /written backwards.- who you ask - Leonardo diVinci

Panther.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
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Originally posted by: drag
I realy don't give much of a care about Bill Gates, And even back then everyone that had a half a brain knew that computers were just going to get better and better. The reason it's funny is the irony, it just goes to show that Bill Gates realy wasn't ever that good at making good technological decisions. The reality is that he just surrounded himself with people that were realy good thinkers about computers but to nieve to realise what he was and when they had a good idea he just ripped them off.

Sure he was a smart business man, but it was just one of those coincedences of time, that he happened to be the right person at the right time to take advantage of the situation. If he came along any later he wouldn't be nearly as rich or powerfull as he is now. He'd probably be climbing the corporate ladder of some ISP, right now eventually becoming CEO and making it company policy to give crappy tech support, just like all his competitors. Bill Gate's as a person is pretty much a bad joke, but that's what it takes to be the type of person he is, so be it.

Being in the right place at the right time with the right people around you is what business is all about.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Active Directory is supposedly broken LDAP.

I remember Xenix. I always thought seeing a Microsoft copyright go by when logging into a Unix machine was funny.
 

Spyro

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2001
3,366
0
0
As long as Microsoft and Bill Gates makes billions of dollars, there are going to be people like you who will continue to try and find a way to belittle them and make them look bad.
Its brain-dead people like you and Microsofts own tactics that make them look bad, dude.

Really, does this all hurt you? For someone who works ?17 hours and can?t catch a break?, why in the world are you wasting your time to write up a slander piece on Microsoft?
It is called sharing an opinion, perhaps you don't know what that means. Regardless of which, you sir are the vocal minority here in these forums. May I ask why you're wasting your time posting here anyway.

FYI Linux didn't used to have a user interface, now they do because they are trying to marketing their product against Microsoft to acquire some shares of the desktop market. So in other words, Linux is essentially is stealing the whole Microsoft design and appeal. Now you have Linux based distros like ?Lindows? and others that are complete and utter rip-offs of Microsoft GUI?s (not to mention the fact the name?) I don?t hear Linux people ranting and raving about that? No I think they have other excuses and better things to rant about :)
Hahahahahahaha :D:D. Whooo hooo now that is too funny. You actually think that Mircrosoft created that ohhh soo lovely "design and appeal". We're talking about the start menu and the trash bin and other things like that, right? Guess what, that wasn't Microsoft's idea in the first place. They stole it from Apple who had stolen it from Xerox. Yeah, what an "innovation"
rolleye.gif
.

If you REALLY wanted to inform people about Xenix, you all you to do is say something simple like this, instead of your obvious attempt to start something
Now you're really being dumb :|. May I ask, start something with whom, heh you? Or maybe Billy G. will send his personal bodygaurds.......

In the late 1970's Microsoft licensed UNIX source code from AT&T which at the time was not licensing the name UNIX. Therefore Microsoft created the name Xenix. Microsoft did not sell Xenix to end-users but instead licensed the software to software OEMs such as Intel, Tandy, Altos and SCO who then provided a finished version of their own Xenix to the end-users or other customers.
SCO introduced its first version of Xenix named SCO Xenix System V for the Intel 8086 and 8088 in 1983. Today SCO Xenix is one of the more commonly used and found versions of Xenix.
Gee, wow, you really are pathetic aren't you. I'm not even going to say anything about this... Nevermind I think that I will anyway. Does the word opinion ring a bell.....

Wow that was so hard...
Indeed.

I made fun of your spelling because you are trying to apply some sort of intelligence on the subject, yet you can?t spell simple 5th grade words, it?s atrocious. In this latest ?quick to the press? post you had over 17 misspelled words. Simple words my 6 year old can spell. It?s just pathetic to see someone try and hold an intelligent ?argument? as you call it, when they can?t spell ?statis, automaticly, varing, rippoff, anywere, aperations, realy, opisite, instulting? I mean come on. If you have the time to write 6 paragraphs of text?..
OK, zo u thnk tht drg iz stooped beecuase eh cnt spll? Thats fine, after all its your opinion. Somehow though, I don't think that it wouldn't have mattered to you whether he can spell or not anyway, so I'm not going to sa anything about this either :).

For all due intents and purposes *PLONK*
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
wizardLRU - LOL you successfully answered NON of my questions and debunked none of my statements :D There was nothing intelligent in your post and was just to call me names with nothing helpful. GG?

fyi I wasn't saying that Microsoft created the first GUI, I'm saying they created windows for the general public that people could use (ease of use). If anyone else could have done it better, they would have. Microsoft had no competition in the desktop OS market at the time and windows WAS innnovative at that time. Regardless if the ideology was taken from different people, it's the package they present is what they sell. It IS all about money, but atleast they tried before Linux ever did. Linux is just now getting the idea that people don't want to play with their kernal and do line code. The general public needs a user interface and that's what they are now learning. Apparently Microsoft did something right to control 95% of the desktop.


<<Gee, wow, you really are pathetic aren't you. I'm not even going to say anything about this... Nevermind I think that I will anyway. Does the word opinion ring a bell.....>>

It's not an OPINION on how Microsoft created the Xenix and sold it off. It's a truth. Not an opinion. You quote the truth on what Xenix is and what Microsoft did in it, then said it's an opinion? Ugh, get a clue.

 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
0
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Active Directory is supposedly broken LDAP.

They work together, although I think you do have to fudge some things because MS did something weird, of course.

 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
0
0
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Ok can we PLEASE be perfectly honest here? You had no reason to write this up other than to try and make Microsoft look bad.

Of course. Does it really matter though? Is he a terrorist for potentially damaging the economy or something? Who cares, it's a rant against MS, big deal.

FYI Linux didn't used to have a user interface, now they do because they are trying to marketing their product against Microsoft to acquire some shares of the desktop market. So in other words, Linux is essentially is stealing the whole Microsoft design and appeal. Now you have Linux based distros like ?Lindows? and others that are complete and utter rip-offs of Microsoft GUI?s (not to mention the fact the name?) I don?t hear Linux people ranting and raving about that? No I think they have other excuses and better things to rant about :)

If you would read this forum often, you would hear those rants from me. Kde and gnome are lame-ass rip offs of windows, it's pathetic. Gnome is probably the worst, with gconf, and vfs (WTF do they need all of that for?). Linux users bash MS all day long, and then they create guis that are the spitting image of windows, it makes me sick. What we need is innovation, not replication.

I made fun of your spelling because you are trying to apply some sort of intelligence on the subject, yet you can?t spell simple 5th grade words, it?s atrocious. In this latest ?quick to the press? post you had over 17 misspelled words. Simple words my 6 year old can spell. It?s just pathetic to see someone try and hold an intelligent ?argument? as you call it, when they can?t spell ?statis, automaticly, varing, rippoff, anywere, aperations, realy, opisite, instulting? I mean come on. If you have the time to write 6 paragraphs of text?..

But as he said, it's pointless to insult about spelling errors, because it has nothing to do with the subject at hand. So he typed it fast and doesn't care about spelling, so what? Making fun of that just makes you look like you have no better argument.
 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
0
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Linux is just now getting the idea that people don't want to play with their kernal and do line code. The general public needs a user interface and that's what they are now learning.

What are you talking about? You think that redhat had some sort of notion that ma and pa want to sit around running gdb all day or something? EVERYONE knows that laymen want a layman's interface, it just takes time to build that. I don't know how "linux" can "get an idea" about something, there are so many different groups of people involved with linux. There are the nerd/coder/hacker types who don't give a fvck about user interfaces, or grandma using linux, and then there are people making the user-friendly distros, which are people trying to make money generally. You seem to fail to grasp the concept of the free software / open source community. No one is entitled to anything, it's all created by people's hard work and no one deserves to bitch about it sucking, because there are thousands of people sitting at home coding sh!t for free and letting other people use it. If people find the software sub-par, that's fine, don't use it, but don't insult it either, because those people are actually doing work while you're (not you, LikeLinus) sitting on your fat ass at home, installing things without doing any work and expecting them to work like magic and getting all pissy when they don't. It's like a person going broke, having to go to the salvation army for food, and then bitching about how it tastes like crap. Some people are way too spoiled.
 

Panther505

Senior member
Oct 5, 2000
560
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fyi I wasn't saying that Microsoft created the first GUI, I'm saying they created windows for the general public that people could use (ease of use). If anyone else could have done it better, they would have.

That's good- cause MS did not create the 1st GUI. Windows as not created for ease of use. The first windows was a GUI frontend for DOS (did they steal that too?). I am not/was not an OS/2 user but I think that OS/2 was a better OS, the problem-IBM wanted $$'s for their developers kit, MS gave their developers kit away. Why you ask? because if the developers write for your OS people will have no choice but to use it... Sound familar?


Microsoft had no competition in the desktop OS market at the time and windows WAS innnovative at that time.

Really? OS/2 again here. MS basically charged anyone that "preloaded" OS/2 almost double for Windows licenses. BTW who wrote a lot of the code for Warp 3 (MS anyone?) and who launched NT 3.5 slightly before the launch of the OS/2 verision that they helped to write (MS again?). Microsoft is suspected to have a version of Office 97 (or is it 95) that will run on OS/2. Why haven't they (or didn't they) release it? So that IBM could not use their product to build a market on.

Who uses OS/2 you ask? How about most of the major banks in the world? Why? even now it is an object oriented OS that is rock solid and if a process dies it DOES NOT TAKE THE WHOLE OS DOWN!

Regardless if the ideology was taken from different people, it's the package they present is what they sell. It IS all about money, but atleast they tried before Linux ever did. Linux is just now getting the idea that people don't want to play with their kernal and do line code. The general public needs a user interface and that's what they are now learning. Apparently Microsoft did something right to control 95% of the desktop.

The last statement is the most important. SOMETHING. Thuggery, blackmail, extortation no matter what you call it when you tell an OEM if thee (MS) orders a system and can get one without a COA on it then they will up the license price for that OEM because "Naked PCs promote piracy". That is joke. It is the same way when an OEM like IBM pays more for licenses because they offer OS/2 (an OS that they (IBM) developed) yet Dell offers OS/2 systems but pays less for the licenses. The OEM contracts were well discussed during the monopoly trial. Part of what the DOJs 'toothless' settlement is supposed to stop is the unfair OEM agreements and such but it was MS's uncanny businnes sense(read willing to chance breaking the law) that allowed them to get to this point. Now Linux is competition and what did they do?

1. GPL is a virus. - Joke, making sure that you don't poison your code is important if you are are writing closed source (just ask Sigma Designs)
2. Open Souce makes for better hacking- NOT. Yes the hacks are out there but as soon as someone can patch it the patch gets out and distributed. With the source out and available there are more people likely to be looking for ways to get in and ways to stop people from getting in.


Linux is evolving as MS is not. Why is MS not evolving? Because they are the top dog and the top dog does not have to evolve, or improvise because they are the top dog. Unfortunately history has shown that if you continue to do this that eventually you are no longer #1 in you industry because you thought that you would always be number 1.
 

Panther505

Senior member
Oct 5, 2000
560
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Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
If you would read this forum often, you would hear those rants from me. Kde and gnome are lame-ass rip offs of windows, it's pathetic. Gnome is probably the worst, with gconf, and vfs (WTF do they need all of that for?). Linux users bash MS all day long, and then they create guis that are the spitting image of windows, it makes me sick. What we need is innovation, not replication.


BBWF- How do you innovate and not duplicate? The biggest problem is that MS has had such a mind share that in order to gain market share Linux will have to duplicate enough so that they can gain the mind/market share. I agree that Gnome is not that great. I like KDE but I am not worried about the GUI for the most part as I have slowly learned the magic of the CLI. If you have suggestions on innovation on the GUI let's start a thread on it as I would be interested in what direction you would take.

Panther
 

Spyro

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2001
3,366
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wizardLRU - LOL you successfully answered NON of my questions and debunked none of my statements :D There was nothing intelligent in your post and was just to call me names with nothing helpful. GG?
Ehhhh??? Wasn't that what i was supposed to do?? Seriously though, you sounded like a Mcro$oft nut, so I responded likewase. What were you expecting anyway???

fyi I wasn't saying that Microsoft created the first GUI, I'm saying they created windows for the general public that people could use (ease of use). If anyone else could have done it better, they would have.
I really don't have time to look up all the facts all over again, but what Microsoft actually did was a certain thing called marketing (hyping it up). They did it and they did it well.

Microsoft had no competition in the desktop OS market at the time and windows WAS innnovative at that time. Regardless if the ideology was taken from different people, it's the package they present is what they sell. It IS all about money, but atleast they tried before Linux ever did.
Now you're saying that the start menu and the trash can icon were made by Microsoft. This isn't true. Microsoft was innovative, but not where desktop GUIs are concerned. Microsoft was innovative in software marketing, gaming (directx), and a few other categories that I can't think of right now.

Linux is just now getting the idea that people don't want to play with their kernal and do line code. The general public needs a user interface and that's what they are now learning. Apparently Microsoft did something right to control 95% of the desktop.
You speak of linux as if its some kind of kompany :), but it isn't. It is actually many different people/organizations all working together. As such, I still really haven't got the idea that people don't want to play with the kernel and do line code, you see I do these things. If somebaody wanted to create a GUI for Linux they can, and many have done so. This is one of the strengths of open source, freedom. As for microsoft doing something right in holding 95% of the desktop, :) that doesn't really matter either because Linux is at its heart a server OS. Companys like lindows and mandrake who are working on desktop linux are doing so because that is what they want to do, and it gives consumers who may be fed up with Microsoft software a legal avenue of escape.

It's not an OPINION on how Microsoft created the Xenix and sold it off. It's a truth. Not an opinion. You quote the truth on what Xenix is and what Microsoft did in it, then said it's an opinion? Ugh, get a clue.
Perhaps I should have made myself more clear, that was your opinion on Xenix that much is rather obvious.

 

Spyro

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2001
3,366
0
0
Originally posted by: Panther505
Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
If you would read this forum often, you would hear those rants from me. Kde and gnome are lame-ass rip offs of windows, it's pathetic. Gnome is probably the worst, with gconf, and vfs (WTF do they need all of that for?). Linux users bash MS all day long, and then they create guis that are the spitting image of windows, it makes me sick. What we need is innovation, not replication.


BBWF- How do you innovate and not duplicate? The biggest problem is that MS has had such a mind share that in order to gain market share Linux will have to duplicate enough so that they can gain the mind/market share. I agree that Gnome is not that great. I like KDE but I am not worried about the GUI for the most part as I have slowly learned the magic of the CLI. If you have suggestions on innovation on the GUI let's start a thread on it as I would be interested in what direction you would take.

Panther

Agreed 100%. By the way I thought KDE was imitating Mac OS.....
 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
0
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BBWF- How do you innovate and not duplicate?

And that's probably the toughest question of all, I really don't have the answer. :)

The biggest problem is that MS has had such a mind share that in order to gain market share Linux will have to duplicate enough so that they can gain the mind/market share.

Yeah, and for that purpose, it definitely works. Windows people can go to kde or gnome and it's not that much different, so they don't have too hard of a time getting used to it.

I agree that Gnome is not that great. I like KDE

I think they're both about the same as far as copying windows.

but I am not worried about the GUI for the most part as I have slowly learned the magic of the CLI.

:D

Even so, the gui still makes a huge difference. I use xterm's for the lions share of everything I do, but using waimea vs. using sawfish vs. using gnome vs. using putty in windows is still an IMMENSE difference to me.

If you have suggestions on innovation on the GUI let's start a thread on it as I would be interested in what direction you would take.

That's the thing... the direction I would take is one that a very small percentage of others would agree with. I have settled on a nearly perfect (to me) gui using waimea as a window manager. I have window borders, I have viewports, and I have a menu. Other than that, there is no gui. I use mouse/keyboard interaction to manipulate things, instead of clicking on buttons. Sloppy focus, and windows don't *ever* raise themselves. Alt+mouse wheel raises/lowers windows when _I_ want them to raise or lower. Alt+button1/2 to move/resize windows, double click titlebar to shade, I can drag them between workspaces, super+q to close a window, super+m to maximize, super+s to shade, click at the screen edge to flip over to the next viewport, or use control/alt + UIOJKLM,. (a 3x3 grid of keys if you look at your keyboard) to move around through my 3x3 layout of viewports, or control+alt up/down/left/right to move in relative movements. Double click the root window for an xterm :)D)... that's about all I can think of.

THIS is what I think makes a great UI, not toolbars and buttons.