The fate of Bill Gate's very first Operating System.

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

By the way I thought KDE was imitating Mac OS.....

http://cmdrtaco.net/yada/kde_screenshot.png
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/OCELOTSQL/_desk1.gif
http://tinus.ath.cx/screens/osx.png

One of these things is not like the other...

I don't see how kde is anything like mac os. It seems to be a blazingly obvious windows rip to me...

Whoops I forgot to add a . Well anyway when I use kde this is how it looks .

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

By the way I thought KDE was imitating Mac OS.....

http://cmdrtaco.net/yada/kde_screenshot.png
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/OCELOTSQL/_desk1.gif
http://tinus.ath.cx/screens/osx.png

One of these things is not like the other...

I don't see how kde is anything like mac os. It seems to be a blazingly obvious windows rip to me...

Whoops I forgot to add a . Well anyway when I use kde this is how it looks .

You're a sick sick man

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

By the way I thought KDE was imitating Mac OS.....

http://cmdrtaco.net/yada/kde_screenshot.png
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/OCELOTSQL/_desk1.gif
http://tinus.ath.cx/screens/osx.png

One of these things is not like the other...

I don't see how kde is anything like mac os. It seems to be a blazingly obvious windows rip to me...

Whoops I forgot to add a . Well anyway when I use kde this is how it looks .

You're a sick sick man

Thanks . Thats KDE at its best .

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: earthman
Funny story, too bad you don't have your facts straight.

STFU

I had a stupid comment here that was the result of a lack of attention to detail. Reading is fundemental kids!

 

[n0cmonkey]

I do not think it is a matter of innovation without duplication. There are positives to each of the GUIs, past and present. Microsoft has a tactic, most geeks recognize it. Embrace and extend. Developers of applications for Unix-like operating systems tend to embrace, and they leave it at that. Blackbox, WindowMaker, waimea, and the other interresting (let's face it, KDE/Gnome/IceWM/etc are actually pretty boring) Window Managers embrace some of the parts of the gui that are good, and throw in things that the developers think are good. Not exactly the embrace and extend tactic used by Microsoft, but a great tactic. I don't know about anyone else, but I think the idea of 3 buttons on each window to be a good thing. I like the option of maximizing, closing, and minimizing my open applications. Maybe it is a Microsoftism that I refuse to drop (and if there is another real solution, please let me know!), but it is something I am comfortable with and something I think is good. But, I hate how most operating systems do not allow for sloppy focus. It is absolutely necessary for the way I computer, especially now since I have forsaken the maximize button in favor of conserving screen real estate. I also hate how kerio's window pops up while I am at work, typing out something, and since it popped into focus I lose whatever options I could have chosen because Windows dragged me away from my work to a Window, allowed me to blindly make a selection that may not have been in my best interrest, and lose a small portion of real work in the process (again, if anyone knows how to fix this *bug* let me know!).

Anyhow, enough of my late night ramblings. Let the same old boring arguements commence.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

I don't know about anyone else, but I think the idea of 3 buttons on each window to be a good thing. I like the option of maximizing, closing, and minimizing my open applications. Maybe it is a Microsoftism that I refuse to drop (and if there is another real solution, please let me know!)

IMO minimizing only convolutes things. I prefer to have lots of workspaces/viewports, and just spread things out, instead of stacking things all over each other, and using a taskbar to try and conceptualize which windows are there but magically hidden (minimized).

And as far as buttons are concerned, they're useless most of the time. A 20x20 pixel button is extremely slow to try to aim for with the mouse, keybindings work a whole lot faster considering your hands are right there on the keyboard most of the time. In fact, key/mouse bindings, to me, form the core of how a gui should work. For every common action, you should have a pure keyboard way of performing it, a keyboard+mouse way (alt click, control click, alt double click, control alt middle click, whatever), and sometimes a pure mouse way if you want one (buttons). If you have some time to blow, search google for fitt's law, it's really cool, and makes alot of sense.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

I don't know about anyone else, but I think the idea of 3 buttons on each window to be a good thing. I like the option of maximizing, closing, and minimizing my open applications. Maybe it is a Microsoftism that I refuse to drop (and if there is another real solution, please let me know!)

IMO minimizing only convolutes things. I prefer to have lots of workspaces/viewports, and just spread things out, instead of stacking things all over each other, and using a taskbar to try and conceptualize which windows are there but magically hidden (minimized).

And as far as buttons are concerned, they're useless most of the time. A 20x20 pixel button is extremely slow to try to aim for with the mouse, keybindings work a whole lot faster considering your hands are right there on the keyboard most of the time. In fact, key/mouse bindings, to me, form the core of how a gui should work. For every common action, you should have a pure keyboard way of performing it, a keyboard+mouse way (alt click, control click, alt double click, control alt middle click, whatever), and sometimes a pure mouse way if you want one (buttons). If you have some time to blow, search google for fitt's law, it's really cool, and makes alot of sense.

BBFW, have you ever considered creating a GUI . As soon as I can gather together whatever is left of my wit, I intend to retheme KDE on my system...............

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

I don't know about anyone else, but I think the idea of 3 buttons on each window to be a good thing. I like the option of maximizing, closing, and minimizing my open applications. Maybe it is a Microsoftism that I refuse to drop (and if there is another real solution, please let me know!)

IMO minimizing only convolutes things. I prefer to have lots of workspaces/viewports, and just spread things out, instead of stacking things all over each other, and using a taskbar to try and conceptualize which windows are there but magically hidden (minimized).

And as far as buttons are concerned, they're useless most of the time. A 20x20 pixel button is extremely slow to try to aim for with the mouse, keybindings work a whole lot faster considering your hands are right there on the keyboard most of the time. In fact, key/mouse bindings, to me, form the core of how a gui should work. For every common action, you should have a pure keyboard way of performing it, a keyboard+mouse way (alt click, control click, alt double click, control alt middle click, whatever), and sometimes a pure mouse way if you want one (buttons). If you have some time to blow, search google for fitt's law, it's really cool, and makes alot of sense.

BBFW, have you ever considered creating a GUI .

I suck at C, but yeah, I would enjoy doing it, if and when I could. The great thing is that I don't really need to.

 

[Panther505]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

I don't know about anyone else, but I think the idea of 3 buttons on each window to be a good thing. I like the option of maximizing, closing, and minimizing my open applications. Maybe it is a Microsoftism that I refuse to drop (and if there is another real solution, please let me know!)

IMO minimizing only convolutes things. I prefer to have lots of workspaces/viewports, and just spread things out, instead of stacking things all over each other, and using a taskbar to try and conceptualize which windows are there but magically hidden (minimized).

And as far as buttons are concerned, they're useless most of the time. A 20x20 pixel button is extremely slow to try to aim for with the mouse, keybindings work a whole lot faster considering your hands are right there on the keyboard most of the time. In fact, key/mouse bindings, to me, form the core of how a gui should work. For every common action, you should have a pure keyboard way of performing it, a keyboard+mouse way (alt click, control click, alt double click, control alt middle click, whatever), and sometimes a pure mouse way if you want one (buttons). If you have some time to blow, search google for fitt's law, it's really cool, and makes alot of sense.

BBWF- this is true from a power user perspective. I know that I routinely run all my windows open (Maximized) and alt-tab acrss to what I want to use. Why? Because I know what and where. Problem- the order changes based on last focus which can sometimes make for a lot of tabbing when you got a bunch of konsole windows open.

But a non-power (standard!?!) user doesn't what that. The average user wants to be able to quickly and easily find the button for the window that they want/need. Their concerned with ease of use not speed of use, as they are trying to get something done(surf, email whatever) while the power users are trying to get 5 different things done (or so I usually am trying to).

I would love to set up For every common action, you should have a pure keyboard way of performing it, a keyboard+mouse way (alt click, control click, alt double click, control alt middle click, whatever), and sometimes a pure mouse way if you want one (buttons). but I don't have the time to do it(I have tried to set up winamea and not had a lot of luck) or the inclination to learn a new way to control the gui(as I think a lot of people don't either).

I agree that I would like to see a more OO (object oriented) type gui come into vouge but I don't think that you will until MS is leveraged out of the market a little and uses it to gain some market share back.

Panther.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

BBWF- this is true from a power user perspective.

Yeah, it's not exactly intuitive to normal people. A mac (but somewhat unix knowledgable) user friend of mine sits down at my computer and every time goes "ok... how does this work again?" , but he takes to it easily, and thinks it's pretty cool.

I know that I routinely run all my windows open (Maximized) and alt-tab acrss to what I want to use. Why? Because I know what and where.

Eh... kinda. You can only see one window at once, and the stacking changes without you explicitly telling it to, you *don't* know what is where, no matter how used to it you are. I see serious flaws with the tons-of-windows-stacked-over-each-other-on-a-single-desktop way of doing things.

Problem- the order changes based on last focus which can sometimes make for a lot of tabbing when you got a bunch of konsole windows open.

Yup, because it's inherintly confusing. I like things to work the way unix works; the more you use it and learn it, the more powerful you become. To me, a sign of bad design is when the design limits you no matter how willing you are to learn it well.

But a non-power (standard!?!) user doesn't what that. The average user wants to be able to quickly and easily find the button for the window that they want/need. Their concerned with ease of use not speed of use, as they are trying to get something done(surf, email whatever)

I'm not so sure about that.. Notice for example, a fair amount of "normal" users begin to pick up on keybindings after a while, control+C for copy, control+V for paste, etc. I do believe, though, that no one will enjoy keybindings unless they can type somewhat well and know where keys are, otherwise they'll spend as much time hunting for the key as they would hunting for a button on screen.

I would love to set up For every common action, you should have a pure keyboard way of performing it, a keyboard+mouse way (alt click, control click, alt double click, control alt middle click, whatever), and sometimes a pure mouse way if you want one (buttons). but I don't have the time to do it

It's just a matter of priorities, I happen to find it very intruiging so I spend more time than most messing with it. IMO it pays off though. I can fly around 9 different viewports doing 5 different things and barely touch a mouse.

(I have tried to set up winamea and not had a lot of luck)

What's winamea?

or the inclination to learn a new way to control the gui(as I think a lot of people don't either).

New things are fun, especially when the things they are replacing suck.

I agree that I would like to see a more OO (object oriented) type gui come into vouge but I don't think that you will until MS is leveraged out of the market a little and uses it to gain some market share back.

Bah, MS isn't even part of the equation. They have the ford festiva of UI's

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

I don't know about anyone else, but I think the idea of 3 buttons on each window to be a good thing. I like the option of maximizing, closing, and minimizing my open applications. Maybe it is a Microsoftism that I refuse to drop (and if there is another real solution, please let me know!)

IMO minimizing only convolutes things. I prefer to have lots of workspaces/viewports, and just spread things out, instead of stacking things all over each other, and using a taskbar to try and conceptualize which windows are there but magically hidden (minimized).

And as far as buttons are concerned, they're useless most of the time. A 20x20 pixel button is extremely slow to try to aim for with the mouse, keybindings work a whole lot faster considering your hands are right there on the keyboard most of the time. In fact, key/mouse bindings, to me, form the core of how a gui should work. For every common action, you should have a pure keyboard way of performing it, a keyboard+mouse way (alt click, control click, alt double click, control alt middle click, whatever), and sometimes a pure mouse way if you want one (buttons). If you have some time to blow, search google for fitt's law, it's really cool, and makes alot of sense.

I only minimize on Mac OS X and Windows. I don't have anything maximized except on special occassions. With sloppy focus I can pretty much tap the mouse to get to the xterm that I need. But I still like the ability to "minimize" things in blackbox so I can keep my ecc2 client open without having to look at it on either of the desktops at work. I even modified my Windows habits and have almost tiled windows on this desktop. Its much easier to work this way.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: earthman
Funny story, too bad you don't have your facts straight.

STFU

I had a stupid comment here that was the result of a lack of attention to detail. Reading is fundemental kids!

Uh. I'm not following. You gonna explain or am I gonna have to give you a STFU?

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

I don't know about anyone else, but I think the idea of 3 buttons on each window to be a good thing. I like the option of maximizing, closing, and minimizing my open applications. Maybe it is a Microsoftism that I refuse to drop (and if there is another real solution, please let me know!)

IMO minimizing only convolutes things. I prefer to have lots of workspaces/viewports, and just spread things out, instead of stacking things all over each other, and using a taskbar to try and conceptualize which windows are there but magically hidden (minimized).

And as far as buttons are concerned, they're useless most of the time. A 20x20 pixel button is extremely slow to try to aim for with the mouse, keybindings work a whole lot faster considering your hands are right there on the keyboard most of the time. In fact, key/mouse bindings, to me, form the core of how a gui should work. For every common action, you should have a pure keyboard way of performing it, a keyboard+mouse way (alt click, control click, alt double click, control alt middle click, whatever), and sometimes a pure mouse way if you want one (buttons). If you have some time to blow, search google for fitt's law, it's really cool, and makes alot of sense.

BBFW, have you ever considered creating a GUI .

I suck at C, but yeah, I would enjoy doing it, if and when I could. The great thing is that I don't really need to.

Nice links!

 

[Pauli]

Spelling is not an indication of intelligence. I can spell. I take the time to carefully form my thoughts but quite often I mispell somethings because I have typing issues and often they end up in the posts because I read what I was thinking not what is really there. Get over it. Remeber that one of the greatest minds of the Renassiance was dyslexic (sp? - cause I am too lazy to look it up!) and that it was supposed the the Madrid Codices were "encrypted" not just spelled /written backwards.- who you ask - Leonardo diVinci

Heh, it's M-I-S-S-P-E-L-L. You misspelled misspell.

 

[spyordie007]

this thread turned in to a bunch of crap and flames, if I were a mod I would lock it now.

-Spy

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: spyordie007
this thread turned in to a bunch of crap and flames, if I were a mod I would lock it now.

-Spy

I'm going to assume that you stopped reading and posted this shortly after you got to the part where LikeLinus appeared.

 

[spyordie007]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: spyordie007
this thread turned in to a bunch of crap and flames, if I were a mod I would lock it now.

-Spy

I'm going to assume that you stopped reading and posted this shortly after you got to the part where LikeLinus appeared.

Did it get better? I got sick of reading it by the time I got half the way down.

-Spy

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: spyordie007

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: spyordie007
this thread turned in to a bunch of crap and flames, if I were a mod I would lock it now.

-Spy

I'm going to assume that you stopped reading and posted this shortly after you got to the part where LikeLinus appeared.

Did it get better? I got sick of reading it by the time I got half the way down.

-Spy

Yeah it actually got much better, but if I were the mods I would have locked it after that first couple of flames myself.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: spyordie007

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: spyordie007
this thread turned in to a bunch of crap and flames, if I were a mod I would lock it now.

-Spy

I'm going to assume that you stopped reading and posted this shortly after you got to the part where LikeLinus appeared.

Did it get better? I got sick of reading it by the time I got half the way down.

-Spy

Yeah it actually got much better, but if I were the mods I would have locked it after that first couple of flames myself.

It is a good thing you guys aren't mods. Flaming idiots is about the only interresting thing going on on this board lately.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

It's stupid to lock it IMO. In ATOT, yeah, some threads just need to die, but here, almost any thread can yield some good discussion, and there are people in this forum that always do that.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: spyordie007

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: spyordie007
this thread turned in to a bunch of crap and flames, if I were a mod I would lock it now.

-Spy

I'm going to assume that you stopped reading and posted this shortly after you got to the part where LikeLinus appeared.

Did it get better? I got sick of reading it by the time I got half the way down.

-Spy

Yeah it actually got much better, but if I were the mods I would have locked it after that first couple of flames myself.

It is a good thing you guys aren't mods. Flaming idiots is about the only interresting thing going on on this board lately.

Hmmmm, thats a good point.......

 

[spyordie007]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: spyordie007

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: spyordie007
this thread turned in to a bunch of crap and flames, if I were a mod I would lock it now.

-Spy

I'm going to assume that you stopped reading and posted this shortly after you got to the part where LikeLinus appeared.

Did it get better? I got sick of reading it by the time I got half the way down.

-Spy

Yeah it actually got much better, but if I were the mods I would have locked it after that first couple of flames myself.

It is a good thing you guys aren't mods. Flaming idiots is about the only interresting thing going on on this board lately.

Hmmmm, thats a good point.......

At least we still all like it enough to keep coming back...

-Spy

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: spyordie007

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: spyordie007

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: spyordie007
this thread turned in to a bunch of crap and flames, if I were a mod I would lock it now.

-Spy

I'm going to assume that you stopped reading and posted this shortly after you got to the part where LikeLinus appeared.

Did it get better? I got sick of reading it by the time I got half the way down.

-Spy

Yeah it actually got much better, but if I were the mods I would have locked it after that first couple of flames myself.

It is a good thing you guys aren't mods. Flaming idiots is about the only interresting thing going on on this board lately.

Hmmmm, thats a good point.......

At least we still all like it enough to keep coming back...

-Spy

I tried to stop once... Just once.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

I tried to stop once... Just once.

I've tried a few times. I've just sort of accepted it as being my fate.

I left ATOT for about a year, for some reason it has sucked me back in lately :-/

Actually now that I'm thinking about it, I should stop going there again... I did it once, it must be possible!

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

I tried to stop once... Just once.

I've tried a few times. I've just sort of accepted it as being my fate.

I left ATOT for about a year, for some reason it has sucked me back in lately :-/

Actually now that I'm thinking about it, I should stop going there again... I did it once, it must be possible!

I could stop posting there if there was something interresting going on in this forum once in a while. Only so many "Which Linux OS should I install?" threads before your brain turns to mush and you are at the right intelligence level to post in ATOT.