The F-35 is a piece of garbage!

[norseamd]

What the BB became late in life can now be done much cheaper by SSN (and while they're left grossly exceeded by SSGN).

SSN are in more demand right now than SSGN. Not sure what you are thinking is going to happen in the future.

 

[Blackjack200]

I believe the major driver for the wider fuselage is so it can internally carry ordinance to provide for a stealthier aircraft.

It would have been better, however, if they had developed a family of aircraft with common avionics but optimized for the service and mission. So, the Marines get there lift fan, the Navy get folding wings and sturdier landing gear, and the USAF get a streamlined AC with better turning and speed. Again, they could have developed three largely different AC but utilizing common avionics and components.

If you ask me the thing that's going to make or break this is the missiles and the radar.

Ultimately, unmanned is the way to go and I suspect that we will never see the numbers they originally planned so the unit cost will go up.

Brian

The Air Force and Navy are both about to begin procurement on their next (6th) generation fighters. The AF is replacing the F-22 and the Navy is replacing the F/A-18 E&F. It looks like will be completely separate programs.

I seem to see some lunacy in the article to begin with.

I'd hope the US would go to UAV's before they would ever build 2440 F-35's, even one of the Air Forces top pilots said he did not see that happening.

I posted that elsewhere, I forget exactly where off hand.

Unmanned will not supplant manned fighters for the foreseeable future. They will be introduced alongside, but I believe we will see huge numbers of F-35s.

 

[lupi]

SSN are in more demand right now than SSGN. Not sure what you are thinking is going to happen in the future.

"SS" in general is in demand due to allowing the fleet to get old quickly without the replacement line in full production. As they are now reaching that point with the replacement units, they are also adding additional VLS capabilities similar to the GNs.

And while the Virginia line was designed with a life of the ship core, don't be surprised when the first couple flights are refueled into GNs themselves.

 

[norseamd]

"SS" in general is in demand due to allowing the fleet to get old quickly without the replacement line in full production.

True, but most everything in the military is in demand.

As they are now reaching that point with the replacement units, they are also adding additional VLS capabilities similar to the GNs.

New SSNs often have a small VLS section, but they are nothing like what SSGNs carry, and the SSN VLS sections are basically only for cruise missiles and maybe some anti-shipping or anti-air missiles, where SSGNs carry ICBMs with nuclear warheads.

 

[John Connor]

The Air Force and Navy are both about to begin procurement on their next (6th) generation fighters. The AF is replacing the F-22 and the Navy is replacing the F/A-18 E&F. It looks like will be completely separate programs.



Unmanned will not supplant manned fighters for the foreseeable future. They will be introduced alongside, but I believe we will see huge numbers of F-35s.

The Air Force is replacing the F-22?

 

[lupi]

New SSNs often have a small VLS section, but they are nothing like what SSGNs carry, and the SSN VLS sections are basically only for cruise missiles and maybe some anti-shipping or anti-air missiles, where SSGNs carry ICBMs with nuclear warheads.

General Characteristics, Ohio Class
Armament: Up to 154 Tomahawk missiles, Mk48 torpedoes; 4 torpedo tubes.

General Characteristics, Virginia Class
Armament: Tomahawk missiles, twelve VLS tubes (SSNs 774-783) or two VPTs (SSNs 784 and beyond), MK48 ADCAP torpedoes, four torpedo tubes.

 

[Sulaco]

The Air Force is replacing the F-22?

In about 10 years or so...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth-generation_jet_fighter

The United States Air Force and United States Navy are anticipated to field their first sixth-generation fighters in the 2025–30 time frame.[1] The USAF is pursuing development and acquisition of a sixth-generation fighter through the F-X program to replace the F-22 Raptor, and the U.S. Navy is pursuing a similar program called the Next Generation Air Dominance to replace the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

 

[John Connor]

Wow! Damn thing barely got used. LOL

I remember seeing the prototype of the F-22 on the cover of Popular Science or Popular Mechanics back in Jr high. That was around '93.

 

[Sulaco]

Wow! Damn thing barely got used. LOL

I remember seeing the prototype of the F-22 on the cover of Popular Science or Popular Mechanics back in Jr high. That was around '93.

Air-to-Air superiority fighters are largely about deterrence and nation dick measuring contests.


Which is of course a good thing, since if they were actually used in those capacities it would likely mean a nation vs. nation conflict which could escalate extraordinarily quickly.

But sadly it means insecure Russian commenters, Youtube comment section flame wars, and armchair forum Maverick's are generally the biggest threats to said aircraft.

 

[John Connor]

Tell me about out. I've seen my fare share of YouTube fuckery to last a life time.

 

[Blitzvogel]

I see F-22's being around a very long time, at least until 2040. We still have F-15s, F-16s, and F/A-18s (non-Superbug) that will likely be around until the 6th gen arrives.

 

[Fenixgoon]

In about 10 years or so...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth-generation_jet_fighter

i'll believe it when i see it. the F22 was so heavily delayed i can't imagine that a new aircraft will be ready in 10 years unless someone has already been working on it.

 

[norseamd]

I see F-22's being around a very long time, at least until 2040. We still have F-15s, F-16s, and F/A-18s (non-Superbug) that will likely be around until the 6th gen arrives.

This.

 

[Blackjack200]

Wow! Damn thing barely got used. LOL

The F-22 has been in service for 10 years and never sniffed air to air combat. It's not inconceivable that it could last until the introduction of its replacement without ever firing its missiles in anger. (Will probably drop a few bombs though.) That's amazing to me.

i'll believe it when i see it. the F22 was so heavily delayed i can't imagine that a new aircraft will be ready in 10 years unless someone has already been working on it.

It definitely won't be ready in 10, I highly doubt it will be ready in 15. Maybe 20 years, so introduced in 2035, at which point the F-22 will be in service 30 years and a replacement will make sense.

Hmm, at that point the Superbugs will be quite old though. Wonder if the Navy program will go faster.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Also have to consider that there are only 186 F-22 airframes in operation from the 750 originally planned. Of those only about 125 are combat coded with 20 as backups. That amounts to 6 understrength squadrons.

The rest are test/training platforms.

 

[gorobei]

its all good. they only have to beat russia's 12 pak-fa.

assuming they can afford to build that many after dropping the order from 150 to 55 to 12.

http://theaviationist.com/2015/04/07/t-50-pak-fa-new-problems/

india is pretty much dropping the export version and eating their investment cost.

 

[Blackjack200]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenth...t-weapon-program-made-major-progress-in-2015/

2015 is the best year ever for the F-35. Development meeting or exceeding goals, 45 aircraft delivered during the year, increased orders from the US and foreign customers. There is every reason to think 2017 IOC for the Air Force will happen.

 

[pauldun170]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenth...t-weapon-program-made-major-progress-in-2015/

2015 is the best year ever for the F-35. Development meeting or exceeding goals, 45 aircraft delivered during the year, increased orders from the US and foreign customers. There is every reason to think 2017 IOC for the Air Force will happen.

Since they restructured the program a few years back its been doing very well.
Unfortunately, the success of the F-35 is not good for generating web traffic to click bait sites.

 

[Blackjack200]

Head of Pentagon acquisition, Frank Kendall, Unveils Sixth Gen Fighter Project For 2016

The OP at f-16.net has a few links to stories, so I'll just link to that.
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=26861

A few things going on here. F-35 development is winding down, lots of really talented engineers at Lockheed and P&W without much to do right now as most airlines are not looking for stealthy jetliners, so part of the idea is to keep the momentum and institutional experience from the F-35 program. Also, remember that the F-35 only replaces the F/A-18C/Ds, so something will be needed to replace the E/F. The AF will want to replace its Raptors and Eagles.

Good to see this is rolling :thumbsup:

 

[manly]

What could go wrong?

http://arstechnica.com/information-...re-overrun-with-bugs-dod-testing-chief-warns/

 

[norseamd]

What could go wrong?

And how much of any software is actually coded well these days? Can you prove to us that the F-35 software is any different from any other type of software you use or buy?

 

[manly]

And how much of any software is actually coded well these days? Can you prove to us that the F-35 software is any different from any other type of software you use or buy?

What kind of straw man is this? Are you seriously comparing F-35 software to $1 iOS games?

I wasn't trying to knock the F-35 program. It just happened to be an article I read yesterday that if true, explains how they were able to meet milestones in 2015.

 

[norseamd]

What kind of straw man is this? Are you seriously comparing F-35 software to $1 iOS games?

I wasn't trying to knock the F-35 program. It just happened to be an article I read yesterday that if true, explains how they were able to meet milestones in 2015.

I was more referring to Windows and business software.

 

[Darwin333]

And how much of any software is actually coded well these days? Can you prove to us that the F-35 software is any different from any other type of software you use or buy?

Well I've never purchased software that controls air to air and air to ground missiles and bombs for one. I do believe it's a tad bit more important that software works correctly than my media player or MS office.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Well I've never purchased software that controls air to air and air to ground missiles and bombs for one. I do believe it's a tad bit more important that software works correctly than my media player or MS office.

The early Patriot missiles were severely hampered by terrible software and it's hardly the only program that has been so hampered. When something that costs $1M each is tested it costs -- well $1M so the tendency is to limit testing to limit costs.


Brian