The F-35 is a piece of garbage!

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Blackjack200

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
manly said:
What could go wrong?

http://arstechnica.com/information-...re-overrun-with-bugs-dod-testing-chief-warns/
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FWIW, the DOT&E is sort of a joke in F-35 discussion groups, they consistently knock the program with ridiculous criticisms and never have anything positive to say. They were probably more justified pre 2011. Now, not so much.

Yes, the software has bugs. That's why it's not done yet. This is the most extensive testing program any fighter jet has ever gone through.

John Connor said:
I feel bad for all the countries that invested in this piece of crap.
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That's funny because the IAF, one of the greatest and most experienced air forces in the world don't feel bad for themselves. They are over the moon about the capabilities their new F-35s will provide.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-revolutionises-multi-role-operations-421158/

We know even before the first aircraft lands in this base that it's a force multiplier. Two F-35s will do the work of larger formations, sometimes of different types. Its capabilities to locate targets and perform the best attack under different conditions are no less than an operational revolution.

But I'm sure the IAF, which could have chosen any American fighter they wanted, from F-16s with AESA radars, to F-15 silent Eagles, Super Hornets, etc. has no clue what they're talking about and no idea what makes a great fighter in the 21st century.
 
JEDIYoda

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Gotta love all these supposed experts!
I would bet none of you actually know from firsthand experience what you are talking about.......
 
Aikouka

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Blackjack200 said:
FWIW, the DOT&E is sort of a joke in F-35 discussion groups, they consistently knock the program with ridiculous criticisms and never have anything positive to say. They were probably more justified pre 2011. Now, not so much.

Yes, the software has bugs. That's why it's not done yet. This is the most extensive testing program any fighter jet has ever gone through.
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What made me raise a brow with that article is how it just talks about "bugs". Frankly, practically all software has bugs in it, but the important thing to note is the severity of the issues being reported. For example, if the software has a very low number of P1-P3 issues and is mostly just P4-P5, then it isn't that big of a deal. For example, an issue in the P4-P5 range could be something like a misspelling.

In my experience, those weak issues tend to get ignored a lot, because it's just not that important to fix them. If there's time or someone is currently working on another issue that's in the same area, they may fix it... especially if it makes the metrics look good. :cool:
 
pauldun170

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,510
5,734
136
Blackjack200 said:
FWIW, the DOT&E is sort of a joke in F-35 discussion groups, they consistently knock the program with ridiculous criticisms and never have anything positive to say. They were probably more justified pre 2011. Now, not so much.

Yes, the software has bugs. That's why it's not done yet. This is the most extensive testing program any fighter jet has ever gone through.



That's funny because the IAF, one of the greatest and most experienced air forces in the world don't feel bad for themselves. They are over the moon about the capabilities their new F-35s will provide.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-revolutionises-multi-role-operations-421158/

We know even before the first aircraft lands in this base that it's a force multiplier. Two F-35s will do the work of larger formations, sometimes of different types. Its capabilities to locate targets and perform the best attack under different conditions are no less than an operational revolution.

But I'm sure the IAF, which could have chosen any American fighter they wanted, from F-16s with AESA radars, to F-15 silent Eagles, Super Hornets, etc. has no clue what they're talking about and no idea what makes a great fighter in the 21st century.
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DOT&E seems to have lost there way or have turned into a more "covering own ass\come up with BS to justify DOT&E budget" than an anything else.

The report is flawed and like you mention plenty have pointed out point by point.

Complicating matters is the media who are now using the F-35 program as a revenue generator. Unfortunately that's resulted in a lot of misinformation out there. Can't have click bait articles unless you feed the readers bias that "the government wastes money on program X and evil corporations and blah blah". It's bad enough to hear the nonsense being spit out on the various blogs out there but now those bloggers are billing them selves as "defense experts" who are quoted by major news organizations.

Eventually when the F-35 is in full rate production and the media runs out of rehashed stale talking points they will probably refocus on "Wall Street bankers" or "big oil". Actually they will probably just start complaining about the LRS-b. When that's done they will start complaining about the 6th gen fighter.
 
T

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,245
500
126
pauldun170 said:
DOT&E seems to have lost there way or have turned into a more "covering own ass\come up with BS to justify DOT&E budget" than an anything else.
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you're not alone

http://nextnavy.com/talking-lcs-testing-in-popular-mechanics/

Now, as followers of this blog know, I’m no fan of DOT&E. In short, the office has gotten far too powerful, and it loves to play politics (the constant well-timed stream of LCS leaks to Bloomberg’s LCS-hating Tony Cappacio is one example). My sense is that some in DOT&E believe the office is a shadow Department of Defense and that J. Michael Gilmore is essentially a shadow Defense Secretary. And for platforms that are systems-of-systems (with each separate system marching down their own testing plan), the testing process is a teeth-grinding exercise in exasperating testing purgatory. And God help you if your program isn’t popular–DOT&E will pull no punches for a poor program manager.

It’s all a far more messy process than it needs to be. My sense is that the Testing Process is so daunting it strangles innovation–and keeps marginal platforms in production far longer than they should be. Just watch the ship classes that have made it through the testing process–each new hull gets delivered, and then they’re quietly whisked off to a different shipyard that, more often than not, adds a whole bunch of critical untested mods. Good Navy folks are doing rhetorical gymnastics to operate within the confines of a tested program of record. Given the current testing environment, the fielding of new, untested stuff is often too hard and too risky to even try. Testing is great, but…something is wrong when testing is too daunting and too biased for innovators to risk.
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KMFJD

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
33,227
53,037
136
I've heard it been said that the f-35 would have been a much better plane if the marines had not been involved, their requirement for vstol/vtol is one of the major issues with the plane? ANy truth to this?
 
norseamd

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
KMFJD said:
I've heard it been said that the f-35 would have been a much better plane if the marines had not been involved, their requirement for vstol/vtol is one of the major issues with the plane? ANy truth to this?
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Nope. Want to know why?

BECAUSE THE F-35B IS THE REAL F-35!
 
MongGrel

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
norseamd said:
Nope. Want to know why?

BECAUSE THE F-35B IS THE REAL F-35!
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Give me a break.

I could really not give a crap what the IAF believes either, they are buying them, not building.

The Marines do stupid things a lot of the time, they wanted a Harrier replacement obviously, but even the Osprey does not work as it should, and became an overpriced nightmare.
 
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Pens1566

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,856
11,526
136
Eh, DOT&E is a joke pretty much all over. Not just on this program. They flit in for test events and often don't understand the systems they're writing their often scathing reports about.
 
Blackjack200

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
KMFJD said:
I've heard it been said that the f-35 would have been a much better plane if the marines had not been involved, their requirement for vstol/vtol is one of the major issues with the plane? ANy truth to this?
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No.

And it's not just the Marines, the UK also required a STOVL aircraft.

MongGrel said:
Give me a break.
I could really not give a crap what the IAF believes either, they are buying them, not building.
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That's cool, but you're pretty much alone. The IAF is one of the world's most respected Air Forces, and their air superiority mission is widely regarded as one of the most difficult, given its small size and proximity to rivals.

The Marines do stupid things a lot of the time, they wanted a Harrier replacement obviously, but even the Osprey does not work as it should, and became an overpriced nightmare.
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In what way does the Osprey not work as it should? It's a revolutionary capability, and since the Marine Corps built it, the Navy is going to buy its own variant, and Japan just ordered a bunch.

http://news.usni.org/2015/07/14/jap...f-5-mv-22s-in-first-international-osprey-sale
 
V

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
It's been a failure before it was even made.

They proceeded.

They still got your tax money and profits regardless.

Cry a river.
 
Blackjack200

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
http://worldwide.erau.edu/newsroom/press-releases/lockheed-martin-f-35-innovation

I don’t know exactly what I expected to learn or see during the tour. And I admit, I was skeptical of the operation’s success. However, I was enlightened and pleasantly surprised. I walked away with a better understanding of and admiration for those working on the F-35 project. What was obvious in each person we met was pride and purpose of mission. It also became clear that Lockheed Martin is not only meeting, but surpassing the expectations of its military clients. And they are doing so with innovative solutions. - See more at: http://worldwide.erau.edu/newsroom/...d-martin-f-35-innovation#sthash.8kmR8KyY.dpuf
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It's like every skeptic that gets the opportunity to actually go see the jet and the maintainers and pilots and people working on the program come away really impressed.

When you think about it, Lockheed has created an aircraft that performs three different missions, that performs those missions in three different takeoff/landing airframes, and suits the needs of all the different partner nations. They've really done an extraordinary job.
 
norseamd

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Blackjack200 said:
It's like every skeptic that gets the opportunity to actually go see the jet and the maintainers and pilots and people working on the program come away really impressed.
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Are you not able to comprehend the idea of companies purchasing individuals to talk favorably about the company or their operations?
 
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