The F-35 is a piece of garbage!

[norseamd]

Of course they talk about it, nothing in what you posted suggests any theoretical technology that diminishes a LO aircraft's advantage over a 4th gen. More sensitive radars and more processing power means that non-stealthy aircraft will be detected at much greater range. The whole point of stealth is to provide a sensor advantage, and again, nothing in what you posted suggests that will change.

If you read the document I posted, the author wrote about how stealth enhances the effectiveness of radar jamming. A radar trying to process a very weak signal return will obviously be more vulnerable to jamming than if a flying barn-door like the Su-35 or F-15 tries to jam it. Jamming functionality is built into the F-35's AESA radar, I imagine that's why the USAF isn't procuring any more EW aircraft.

Of course it is important, but it is still just one cog in the wheel that has to be utilized effectively and efficiently and sustainably, and it is not like it is a magic bullet that the Russians and Chinese can do nothing about at all.

 

[norseamd]

Jamming functionality is built into the F-35's AESA radar, I imagine that's why the USAF isn't procuring any more EW aircraft.

Think the article kinda covered that, seems the USAF has been going a mostly all stealth approach, while the Navy has been cautious about relying heavily on stealth, and has been focusing a lot on electronic warfare.

 

[Brian Stirling]

My local AFB, Hill AFB, has received some F-35's already but I'm not sure how many that is -- anyone know what the numbers in the inventory are and where they are?


Brian

 

[Blackjack200]

My local AFB, Hill AFB, has received some F-35's already but I'm not sure how many that is -- anyone know what the numbers in the inventory are and where they are?


Brian

Good place for that:

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=59&sid=e138a40f56efa1aeda16121e08a0550f

 

[Brian Stirling]

Good place for that:

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=59&sid=e138a40f56efa1aeda16121e08a0550f

Thanks, so we have 6 as of January and I believe we're getting about 1 per month so maybe at 7 now.

I'd really love a base tour and as a former USAF SSGT I'd like to think they'd give me access, but I know better than that. I'll definitely be looking out for the next open house/airshow...


Brian

 

[pauldun170]

The big boys have been talking about it for a while already.







http://breakingdefense.com/2012/11/will-stealth-survive-as-sensors-improve-f-35-jammers-at-stake/

Geez that article is mess.

I'm going to keep it short and simple.

Navy is pushing for additional Growlers because in the short term everyone and there mother is asking for Navy growlers to deal with all the ISIS nonsense going on. They are mitigating the risk of accelerated wear and tear on Hornet airframes. Any talk about "Stealth might not this or might not that or blah blah blah " is all BS. BS from "analysts" jumping on the anti-f35 gravy train to the Admiral rehearsing his talking points to justify extending Super Hornet production to cover the shortfall until F-35 start ruling the decks.

The rest of that article is song and dance.

Reality is this
http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/ngj/
+ F-35
equals Growler\Prowler retirement.
The systems on the F-35 are capable handling some serious shit. The next next gen jammer design allows for a very wide scope of threats and methodologies.

First phase of Next gen jammer is to mount them on Growlers. Second phase is mounting them on everything from the F-35 to you grandmother's c-130

 

[pauldun170]

Think the article kinda covered that, seems the USAF has been going a mostly all stealth approach, while the Navy has been cautious about relying heavily on stealth, and has been focusing a lot on electronic warfare.

The Airforce doesn't need to bother with EW aircaft because
1. They just use the Navy's. Hell. They train Navy units (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/390th_Electronic_Combat_Squadron)
2. There is no point to procure new EW aircraft when the goal is to have a self contain jammer that can be mounted onto any aircaft. Picture a strike group of F-35's where one of the F-35s has the phase 3 next gen jammer in the internal weapons bay. No need to develop a specialized platform like the Growler. The way forward is modular.

 

[pauldun170]

Thanks, so we have 6 as of January and I believe we're getting about 1 per month so maybe at 7 now.

I'd really love a base tour and as a former USAF SSGT I'd like to think they'd give me access, but I know better than that. I'll definitely be looking out for the next open house/airshow...


Brian

Get your questions ready.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9re9tJckTlk

 

[norseamd]

The way forward is modular.

Sure, but why not do it in a way that doesnt take up a weapons slot?

 

[pauldun170]

Sure, but why not do it in a way that doesnt take up a weapons slot?

A strike package of F-35 will have their normal integrated jammers.
One additional aircraft to help protect the overall mission with a next gen jammer in the bay is fine. Those jammers will only be fielded if the mission requires it.


Those jammers cover a whole spectrum of crap and they require space and power. To integrate a comprehensive jammer into an F-35 class aircraft (these are not big planes) is not the way to go. What do you sacrifice in an aircraft the size of the F-35 to have an integrated jammer in the class of ALQ-99 or NGJ? Do you sacrifice fuel? Do you reduce the internal weapons capacity? How are you going to power the system? How do you ensure growth potential?


The current integrated EW on the F-35 is good enough to protect the F-35 and good enough to create safe zones for legacy aircraft nearby.

 

[John Connor]

My local AFB, Hill AFB, has received some F-35's already but I'm not sure how many that is -- anyone know what the numbers in the inventory are and where they are?


Brian

When I lived in Utah I saw many aircraft fly around from Hill. Apparently the B2 gets some kind of maintenance there?

I found it interesting that the "secret shuttles" Janet that fly from Mcarran Las Vegas to "Area-51" are registered in Layton and some of those Janets go to Hill.

There are bunker-like hills all over the place at Hill. What in the world are those? I'm thinking bombs, etc?

 

[William Gaatjes]

Well, it is great science.

And this is still fun to see :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxT78JsLJBY

 

[Darwin333]

Geez that article is mess.

I'm going to keep it short and simple.

Navy is pushing for additional Growlers because in the short term everyone and there mother is asking for Navy growlers to deal with all the ISIS nonsense going on. They are mitigating the risk of accelerated wear and tear on Hornet airframes. Any talk about "Stealth might not this or might not that or blah blah blah " is all BS. BS from "analysts" jumping on the anti-f35 gravy train to the Admiral rehearsing his talking points to justify extending Super Hornet production to cover the shortfall until F-35 start ruling the decks.

The rest of that article is song and dance.

Reality is this
http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/ngj/
+ F-35
equals Growler\Prowler retirement.
The systems on the F-35 are capable handling some serious shit. The next next gen jammer design allows for a very wide scope of threats and methodologies.

First phase of Next gen jammer is to mount them on Growlers. Second phase is mounting them on everything from the F-35 to you grandmother's c-130

We really need (relatively) high tech dedicated electronic warfare warplanes, designed for the likes of Russia, to fight ISIS? Serious question, I had no idea...

 

[Darwin333]

Sure, but why not do it in a way that doesnt take up a weapons slot?

Because it beats the hell out of using an entire dedicated jet, especially considering the space limitations on an aircraft carrier, I would assume. If you put them on every plane it just drives the cost way up and is more shit that can break.

 

[exdeath]

What we need is a missile that fires missiles at other missiles.

Then we won't need any planes at all.

Yo dawg... we heard you like missiles.

 

[pauldun170]

We really need (relatively) high tech dedicated electronic warfare warplanes, designed for the likes of Russia, to fight ISIS? Serious question, I had no idea...

Serious answer

A small sample of the type of capability these systems bring to the table. Applicable in any conflict.
http://theaviationist.com/2015/12/01/growler-hvi-cell-phone-kill-marking/
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/04/new-tech-will-allow-navy-target-jamming-pods/110038/

 

[John Connor]

Along with actively jamming enemy communications, the Growler, operating in a networked environment along with other two aircraft of the same type (needed for triangulation), can use its EW pods to geo-locate a signal source and target it from stand-off distance with air-to-surface missiles.

Bad ass!

Although I can see a problem of which I won't mention.

 

[Brian Stirling]

When I lived in Utah I saw many aircraft fly around from Hill. Apparently the B2 gets some kind of maintenance there?

I found it interesting that the "secret shuttles" Janet that fly from Mcarran Las Vegas to "Area-51" are registered in Layton and some of those Janets go to Hill.

There are bunker-like hills all over the place at Hill. What in the world are those? I'm thinking bombs, etc?

Part of the lore about Area 51 is that it was shut down and operations have moved to Dugway in Utah and places in Colorado. I doubt that but it certainly is possible that authority might come out of Hill.

I have also noticed the bunkers at Hill but don't know when they were put there. Hill's been around for a long time so they've been into many things.

Back in October I visited a place called Fish Springs National Wildlife Refuge out in the desert in west central Utah. The area is just to the south and west of the Dugway exclusion area and while there I camped along the dirt road west of the refuge. Early one evening as the Sun was going down a B1B zoomed passed and my guess is it was at about 500AGL and cooking along above 600mph. I first caught a glimpse of it to the north east and as it zoomed passed me the sound was trailing pretty far behind it. Tracing the path it came from leads directly to Dugway, but it may well have come out of Hill instead.

While at Fish Springs I spent one night taking a time lapse of the Milky Way -- you can see jet contrails even at night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9v8C7mT-Tk

Edited to read B1B and not B2 -- it was the swing winged bomber not the stealth bomber...


Brian

 

[William Gaatjes]

Serious answer

A small sample of the type of capability these systems bring to the table. Applicable in any conflict.
http://theaviationist.com/2015/12/01/growler-hvi-cell-phone-kill-marking/
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/04/new-tech-will-allow-navy-target-jamming-pods/110038/

But before the Growler, which is flying missions over Iraq and Syria today, can get these weapons-quality accuracy, they need new, faster datalinks (essentially modems that pass data between aircraft). Think of it like going from a dial-up Internet to a broadband connection. The new datalinks are scheduled to arrive by decade’s end, industry officials said.

Of course, this is to confuse the enemy. I am sure it is already available.:thumbsup:

I hope.
Could be.
Yes ?

 

[John Connor]

Part of the lore about Area 51 is that it was shut down and operations have moved to Dugway in Utah and places in Colorado. I doubt that but it certainly is possible that authority might come out of Hill.

I have also noticed the bunkers at Hill but don't know when they were put there. Hill's been around for a long time so they've been into many things.

Back in October I visited a place called Fish Springs National Wildlife Refuge out in the desert in west central Utah. The area is just to the south and west of the Dugway exclusion area and while there I camped along the dirt road west of the refuge. Early one evening as the Sun was going down a B2 zoomed passed and my guess is it was at about 500AGL and cooking along above 600mph. I first caught a glimpse of it to the north east and as it zoomed passed me the sound was trailing pretty far behind it. Tracing the path it came from leads directly to Dugway, but it may well have come out of Hill instead.

While at Fish Springs I spent one night taking a time lapse of the Milky Way -- you can see jet contrails even at night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9v8C7mT-Tk


Brian

Area-51 is still active as they have been building more hangers. They also have a drone now that flys over head to alert the base if someone is coming. Also, I have heard Janet very active fly in & out of KLAS at liveatc.net.

For some reason YouTube is working for me right now. Edit- Now it is but I get some road racing video with that link.

 

[Ns1]

Serious answer

A small sample of the type of capability these systems bring to the table. Applicable in any conflict.
http://theaviationist.com/2015/12/01/growler-hvi-cell-phone-kill-marking/
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/04/new-tech-will-allow-navy-target-jamming-pods/110038/

I had no idea we had stuff like this. Awesome.

 

[John Connor]

I had no idea we had stuff like this. Awesome.

In Iraq, soldiers on the ground did have cell jammers I believe to help defeat IEDs.

Ah! Here they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-IED_equipment#Electronic_Countermeasures_.28Jammers.29

 

[norseamd]

An article that is good for putting stuff into perspective.

The nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. The nuclear-powered submarine. Ultra-advanced stealth bombers and fighters. These all represent the most lethal, sophisticated and expensive weapons in the U.S. military’s mighty arsenal—and they might soon all be close to obsolete.

Well, at least if certain technological trends bear fruit, according to a number of think-tank reports, research studies and in-depth essays that have been published over the last year.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...carriers-submarines-stealth-weapons-all-15324

 

[maddogchen]

i take issue with their use of the word obsolete. the carrier isn't getting replaced by the missile. these missiles are for area denial, not to project power which is what the carrier is used for.

 

[Blackjack200]

An article that is good for putting stuff into perspective.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...carriers-submarines-stealth-weapons-all-15324

Cliffs: A bunch of ridiculous hand waving about how imagined, totally unproven technologies could someday blunt our military dominance. Because faster processors and "big data" and stuff.

The best part was at the end when we learn that "new radar technology can totally detect (and track!) stealth aircraft". Never heard that claim before.