- Jul 28, 2006
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Ugh!! Once again I shall try and respond to all the cheap shots...
1. This was posted on August 28. That was 2+ weeks before Lehman Brothers went broke and AIG went to hell. At that time NO ONE was talking about a banking crisis or the possibility of a banking crisis. And I challenge anyone to find me a thread that suggests that the government would be passing a $750 billion bank recovery act less than a month later.
2. The data in the OP is STILL 100% correct. The economy WAS growing at the time referenced in the two articles that I quoted.
3. I started this thread to counter all the 'world is coming to an end' type of threads that were popping up all over the place last summer.
4. Even today, after six months of bad news, unemployment is still at 1982 levels and GDP growth during the 4th quarter (-3.8%) was still better than what we saw in individual quarters in 1980, 81 or 82.
1. This was posted on August 28. That was 2+ weeks before Lehman Brothers went broke and AIG went to hell. At that time NO ONE was talking about a banking crisis or the possibility of a banking crisis. And I challenge anyone to find me a thread that suggests that the government would be passing a $750 billion bank recovery act less than a month later.
2. The data in the OP is STILL 100% correct. The economy WAS growing at the time referenced in the two articles that I quoted.
3. I started this thread to counter all the 'world is coming to an end' type of threads that were popping up all over the place last summer.
4. Even today, after six months of bad news, unemployment is still at 1982 levels and GDP growth during the 4th quarter (-3.8%) was still better than what we saw in individual quarters in 1980, 81 or 82.
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
- 7
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^ yea... that is what they tell me...
Don't discount the politics involved in WHEN a recession starts. The same group that was so quick to claim this recession started in Dec 2007 also claimed at the 2000-2001 recession didn't start until 2001 when all the economic and stock data indicated that it actually started in 2000.
Also, the recession may have started in 2007, but it really didn't kick in to high gear till late summer 2008 when unemployment started to go up.
Either way, all the talk about the end of the world and great depression Version 2 is WAY overblown. We may already be approaching the bottom of the cycle since retail sales are starting to recover. The big question is whether we see a recovery or we experience a long drawn out slowdown similar to what Japan faced.
Don't discount the politics involved in WHEN a recession starts. The same group that was so quick to claim this recession started in Dec 2007 also claimed at the 2000-2001 recession didn't start until 2001 when all the economic and stock data indicated that it actually started in 2000.
Also, the recession may have started in 2007, but it really didn't kick in to high gear till late summer 2008 when unemployment started to go up.
Either way, all the talk about the end of the world and great depression Version 2 is WAY overblown. We may already be approaching the bottom of the cycle since retail sales are starting to recover. The big question is whether we see a recovery or we experience a long drawn out slowdown similar to what Japan faced.
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: Genx87
What is wrong, cant take the heat? Been 8 years of liberal circle jerking. Let us have our glory. You won get over it!
There's a difference between taking the heat and bothering to participate the worthless troll threads being posted lately.
GWB&Co had a miserable 8 years and earned the criticism they got. Obama just passed the 2 month mark.
Most of the garbage tossed at Bush was equally as trolling. Obama in his first 2 months has managed to do enough to warrant troll threads and legitimate complaints. It is only going to get worse as he implements more of his command and control economy. When he nationalizes the banks it will get even hotter in here.
From what I remember the past GWB bashing was never near the level of current Obama bashing. Bush's failed policies are past/proven so criticism of the failures is fair. Obama has been in office 2 months. We don't know if the policies he's laying out are going to work in the long run. It's nice to hear you acknowledge the troll threads though.
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: Genx87
What is wrong, cant take the heat? Been 8 years of liberal circle jerking. Let us have our glory. You won get over it!
There's a difference between taking the heat and bothering to participate the worthless troll threads being posted lately.
GWB&Co had a miserable 8 years and earned the criticism they got. Obama just passed the 2 month mark.
Most of the garbage tossed at Bush was equally as trolling. Obama in his first 2 months has managed to do enough to warrant troll threads and legitimate complaints. It is only going to get worse as he implements more of his command and control economy. When he nationalizes the banks it will get even hotter in here.
From what I remember the past GWB bashing was never near the level of current Obama bashing. Bush's failed policies are past/proven so criticism of the failures is fair. Obama has been in office 2 months. We don't know if the policies he's laying out are going to work in the long run. It's nice to hear you acknowledge the troll threads though.
You have selective memory.
retrospooty
Platinum Member
- Apr 3, 2002
- 2,031
- 74
- 86
Originally posted by: Genx87
What is wrong, cant take the heat? Been 8 years of liberal circle jerking. Let us have our glory. You won get over it!
I prefer to see this as a good thing... Now, after your 14 years in total control of congress and 8 years at the WH, and having failed miserably, so bad that even your own right wing rhetoric coulnt win you an election.... Now you guys are out of power and relegated to whining on and on about everything that the dems do on a polical forum.
At least here, your policies do no damage =) ... so, whine on, whine on, whine on...
Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: Genx87
What is wrong, cant take the heat? Been 8 years of liberal circle jerking. Let us have our glory. You won get over it!
I prefer to see this as a good thing... Now, after your 14 years in total control of congress and 8 years at the WH, and having failed miserably, so bad that even your own right wing rhetoric coulnt win you an election.... Now you guys are out of power and relegated to whining on and on about everything that the dems do on a polical forum.
At least here, your policies do no damage =) ... so, whine on, whine on, whine on...
They didnt have 14 years of total control of congress. And Democrats controlled the executive branch for 6 of those 14 years.
If failing miserably includes working with the other side to balance a budget and seeing economic expansion. Ill take that any day of the week over spending 1 trillion we dont have and a contracting economy.
right, because a McCain presidency would have spent zero so far, and not even brought up doing any sort of stimulus package...........
when did Bush make any effort whatsoever to balance a budget - talk about a selective memory
when did Bush make any effort whatsoever to balance a budget - talk about a selective memory
retrospooty
Platinum Member
- Apr 3, 2002
- 2,031
- 74
- 86
Yes, dems had the White house for 6 prosperous years until Bush came around and broke it...
And yes, not just my opinion, the opinion of the whole country is that the reps failed miserably when they had total power from 2000-2006... you CANT possibly argue that. So I for one see you all here whining on and on about every descision Obama makes a good thing. it will take years to see the effects of what Obama does - like now, we all see what Bush did and arent liking it at all.
So, keep whinning. Its a good loser trait for you to carry on.
You are right, I cant argue the dem leadership has successfully convinced people the republicans had total control from 2000-2008 even though the dems held control of both houses in 06 and there was a split in the houses until 2002. And even the republics strongest majorities were from 04-06 and were nothing like the current majorities democrats have.
I bet they even convinced you about the total power republicans held from 2000-2006 even though they only had 2 years of anything that could be considered strong majorities. Well played, well played.
Mardeth
Platinum Member
- Jul 24, 2002
- 2,608
- 0
- 0
As a response to mostly point #1. Its no excuse. Everybody else at the same time knew better than you. You take responsibility for your own estimates. If your not confident that you know everything that you need to know to make that estimate, then you dont make one.
You seem to lack the concept of future. Every point you make is comparing TODAY with something from the past. Especially with unemployment which lags behind its stupid. Worse is yet to come, especially when it comes to unemployment.
Well, I'm a liberal, and I agree with GenX about the spending. One would think that liberals would understand how excessive spending can destroy the buying power of poor people, especially if inflation roars off into space or taxes must be raised to pay our debts.
Here's an old fashioned idea: Deficits DO matter, contrary to what the neocon, Chicago School of Economists will tell you. Everyone should balance their budget, if and when they can. American government and Americans have become addicted to credit and money from others. If we weren't the currency of preference for the world, and if our T Bonds didn't sell like hot cakes, we would be in huge trouble.
-Robert
What spinning. You think the republicans held strong majorities from 2000-2006? Go look it up if you dont believe me. Even in their best years 04-06 they didnt have the majorities democrats currently hold.
Republicans held a 55-45 advantage in the senate and a 232-203 advantage in the house from 04-06. Democrats hold much more power now than Bush's best years.
retrospooty
Platinum Member
- Apr 3, 2002
- 2,031
- 74
- 86
Wow... If you cant see the spin in that, then you are truly delusional... Or just dizzy from all the spin.
Why dont you just come out like Winnar111 and admit, that everything bad that ever happened to America is 100% the liberals fault... And everything that conservatives ever did was good for the country. At least that way you are less transparent. =)
And by all means... Keep complaining about Obama and every single step he makes. It makes the left know they are doing the right thing, and makes me proud of MY country =)
Uh you'd have to spin what I am saying to claim what I just said is placing blame on liberals or democrats. My point is the propoganda that Bush and republicans had a firm grip on our govt for the past 8 years is false. Bush owned the executive but the legislative wasnt nearly as firm and only for half his presidency did his party fully control it and only 2 of the years was it a strong majority.
Nominal GDP (which is what is typically reported around here) is not adjusted for inflation.
Real GDP factors in inflation.
Nominal GDP for 2008 was $14,280.7 trillion. In 'chained' year 2000 dollars ($9,817 trillion) Real GDP for 2008 was $11,671.3 trillion so 42% of our growth over the last 8 years was lost to inflation.
edit: Bad Math
Somebody spank me.58% of our growth was lost to inflation :shocked:
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