The economy is STILL growing!!!!!!!!!! What happened to the recession???

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retrospooty

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2002
2,031
74
86
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: retrospooty

Wow... If you cant see the spin in that, then you are truly delusional... Or just dizzy from all the spin.

Why dont you just come out like Winnar111 and admit, that everything bad that ever happened to America is 100% the liberals fault... And everything that conservatives ever did was good for the country. At least that way you are less transparent. =)

And by all means... Keep complaining about Obama and every single step he makes. It makes the left know they are doing the right thing, and makes me proud of MY country =)

Uh you'd have to spin what I am saying to claim what I just said is placing blame on liberals or democrats. My point is the propoganda that Bush and republicans had a firm grip on our govt for the past 8 years is false. Bush owned the executive but the legislative wasnt nearly as firm and only for half his presidency did his party fully control it and only 2 of the years was it a strong majority.

No, no... I didnt say you said that. My point was you seem to just do nothing but defend reps and blame libs. Not specifically in that post, but in general.

Yes, dems right now have a larger majority than reps had under Bush... What of it? Bush had the house and senate in his pocket and got to do anything he wanted. His agenda led us into destruction. That is all I am saying. - now the coutnry is fed up with that, and voted all that ideology out. Live with it.
 

Trianon

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2000
1,789
0
71
www.conkurent.com
Which USA economy is growing again? Repo economy???

Text

Economy shrinks at worst pace in 25 years
By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP Economics Writer Jeannine Aversa, Ap Economics Writer 11 mins ago

WASHINGTON ? The economy contracted at a staggering 6.2 percent pace at the end of 2008, the worst showing in a quarter-century, as consumers and businesses ratcheted back spending, plunging the country deeper into recession.

The Commerce Department report released Friday showed the economy sinking much faster than the 3.8 percent annualized drop for the October-December quarter first estimated by the government last month. It also was considerably weaker than the 5.4 percent annualized decline economists expected.

Looking ahead, economists predict consumers and businesses will keep cutting back spending, making the first six months of this year especially rocky.

The new report offered grim proof that the economy's economic tailspin accelerated in the fourth quarter under a slew of negative forces feeding on each other. The economy started off 2008 on feeble footing, picked up a bit of speed in the spring and then contracted at an annualized rate of 0.5 percent in the third quarter.

The faster downhill slide in the final quarter of last year came as the financial crisis ? the worst since the 1930s ? intensified.

Consumers at the end of the year slashed spending by the most in 28 years. They chopped spending on cars, furniture, appliances, clothes and other things. Businesses retrenched sharply, too, dropping the ax on equipment and software, home building and commercial construction.

Before Friday's report was released, many economists were projecting an annualized drop of 5 percent in the current January-March quarter. Given the dismal state of the jobs market, though, some believe an even sharper decline in first-quarter GDP is possible.

The nation's unemployment rate is now at 7.6 percent, the highest in more than 16 years. The Federal Reserve expects the jobless rate to rise to close to 9 percent this year, and probably remain above normal levels of around 5 percent into 2011.

A smaller decline in the economy is expected for the second quarter of this year. But the new GDP figure ? like the old one ? marked the weakest quarterly showing since an annualized drop of 6.4 percent in the first quarter of 1982, when the country was suffering through an intense recession.

American consumers ? spooked by vanishing jobs, sinking home values and shrinking investment portfolios have cut back. In turn, companies are slashing production and payrolls. Rising foreclosures are aggravating the already stricken housing market, hard-to-get credit has stymied business investment and is crimping the ability of some consumers to make big-ticket purchases.

It's creating a self-perpetuating vicious cycle that Washington policymakers are finding hard to break.

To jolt life back into the economy, President Barack Obama recently signed a $787 billion recovery package of increased government spending and tax cuts. The president also unveiled a $75 billion plan to stem home foreclosures and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said as much as $2 trillion could be plowed into the financial system to jump-start lending.

For all of 2008, the economy grew by just 1.1 percent, weaker than the government initially estimated. That was down from a 2 percent gain in 2007 and marked the slowest growth since the last recession in 2001.

In the fourth quarter, consumers cut spending at a 4.3 percent pace. That was deeper than the initial 3.5 percent annualized drop and marked the biggest decline since the second quarter of 1980.

Businesses slashed spending on equipment and software at an annualized pace of 28.8 percent in the final quarter of last year. That also was deeper than first reported and was the worst showing since the first quarter of 1958.

Fallout from the housing collapse spread to other areas. Builders cut spending on commercial construction projects by 21.1 percent, the most since the first quarter of 1975. Home builders slashed spending at a 22.2 percent pace, the most since the start of 2008.

A sharper drop in U.S. exports also factored into the weaker fourth-quarter performance. Economic troubles overseas are sapping demand for domestic goods and services.

Businesses also cut investments in inventories ? as they scrambled to reduce stocks in the face of dwindling customer demand ? another factor contributing to the weaker fourth-quarter reading.

Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke earlier this week told Congress that the economy is suffering a "severe contraction" and is likely to keep shrinking in the fix six months of this year. But he planted a seed of hope that the recession might end his year if the government managed to prop up the shaky banking system.

Even in the best-case scenario that the recession ends this year and an economic recovery happens next year, unemployment is likely to keep rising.

That's partly because many analysts don't think the early stages of any recovery will be vigorous, and because companies won't be inclined to ramp up hiring until they feel confident that any economic rebound will have staying power.

More job losses were announced this week. JPMorgan Chase & Co. on Thursday said it would eliminate about 12,000 jobs as it absorbs the operations of failed savings and loan Washington Mutual Inc. That figure includes 9,200 cuts announced previously and 2,800 jobs expected to be lost through attrition.

The NFL said Wednesday that the league dropped 169 jobs through buyouts, layoffs and other reductions. Textile maker Milliken & Co. said it would cut 650 jobs at facilities worldwide, while jeweler Zale Corp. said it will close 115 stores and eliminate 245 positions.

On Monday, troubled flash memory maker Spansion Inc. said it will lay off about 3,000 employees and computer chip maker Micron Technology Inc. announced it will slash as many as 2,000 workers by the end of August.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: retrospooty

Wow... If you cant see the spin in that, then you are truly delusional... Or just dizzy from all the spin.

Why dont you just come out like Winnar111 and admit, that everything bad that ever happened to America is 100% the liberals fault... And everything that conservatives ever did was good for the country. At least that way you are less transparent. =)

And by all means... Keep complaining about Obama and every single step he makes. It makes the left know they are doing the right thing, and makes me proud of MY country =)

Uh you'd have to spin what I am saying to claim what I just said is placing blame on liberals or democrats. My point is the propoganda that Bush and republicans had a firm grip on our govt for the past 8 years is false. Bush owned the executive but the legislative wasnt nearly as firm and only for half his presidency did his party fully control it and only 2 of the years was it a strong majority.

No, no... I didnt say you said that. My point was you seem to just do nothing but defend reps and blame libs. Not specifically in that post, but in general.

Yes, dems right now have a larger majority than reps had under Bush... What of it? Bush had the house and senate in his pocket and got to do anything he wanted. His agenda led us into destruction. That is all I am saying. - now the coutnry is fed up with that, and voted all that ideology out. Live with it.

Well my point was the democrats successfully painted the era of Bush as republicans having complete control and ruling with iron fists when it was false. Bush only enjoyed a strong majority for 2 of his 8 years. 2 of the years he worked with a split congress, 2 years with slim majorities, and 2 years opposition party.

 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: NeoV
didn't see this on the page anywhere....
I have avoided asking the MODS to lock this thread because I didn't want anyone to accuse me of running and hiding.

But if all you guys are going to do is bump this thread as a form of trolling then perhaps it is time it dies.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
Honestly I don't think this thread should die. Hindsight is always 20/20 but its interesting to see that logic unfold in the early stages of this "thing" we are going through. I don't fault PJ for being in lock step with his party and making this thread at the time that he did but I think it highlights just another facet of the right being so totally wrong. And again I say that with all respect. Most of us didn't see such a shit storm including myself.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
hehe.. best P&N thread of all time. Even better than the "Its Over" thread. You may get it locked, but it will never die. Google cache lives forever
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: NeoV
didn't see this on the page anywhere....
I have avoided asking the MODS to lock this thread because I didn't want anyone to accuse me of running and hiding.

But if all you guys are going to do is bump this thread as a form of trolling then perhaps it is time it dies.

I'd be inclined to agree with you but you keep defending your OP. "The economy WAS still growing!" but you ignore that it was all based on a bubble, and the "end is near" people were saying exactly that. If you owned up to being as wrong about this as anyone has ever been wrong about anything, I'd say the discussion would be over. As it is, you keep coming back with the "what? It's still not that bad out there!" posts.

For the record, I do think bumping the thread simply to embarass you is worthy of a warning or mini-vaca. We all make mistakes. But christ, it's time to give up the ghost.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: Bitek
hehe.. best P&N thread of all time. Even better than the "Its Over" thread. You may get it locked, but it will never die. Google cache lives forever

Jpeyton's "Zomg we are attacking Iran!" > this thread.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Honestly I don't think this thread should die. Hindsight is always 20/20 but its interesting to see that logic unfold in the early stages of this "thing" we are going through. I don't fault PJ for being in lock step with his party and making this thread at the time that he did but I think it highlights just another facet of the right being so totally wrong. And again I say that with all respect. Most of us didn't see such a shit storm including myself.
Sort of like the way that the left refuses to understand that all of Obama's policies are going to doom us to either a longer recession or a long period of slow growth.

The stock market is down 25% in the last two months. If Obama was doing the 'right' thing it would not continue its nose dive. But the market has no confidence in Obama and his policies and many people are worried that he is going to make things worse long term.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,862
3,295
136
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Honestly I don't think this thread should die. Hindsight is always 20/20 but its interesting to see that logic unfold in the early stages of this "thing" we are going through. I don't fault PJ for being in lock step with his party and making this thread at the time that he did but I think it highlights just another facet of the right being so totally wrong. And again I say that with all respect. Most of us didn't see such a shit storm including myself.
Sort of like the way that the left refuses to understand that all of Obama's policies are going to doom us to either a longer recession or a long period of slow growth.

The stock market is down 25% in the last two months. If Obama was doing the 'right' thing it would not continue its nose dive. But the market has no confidence in Obama and his policies and many people are worried that he is going to make things worse long term.

wow, you just compared the unknown future to the known past yet you still can not admit that you were wrong :confused:
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Honestly I don't think this thread should die. Hindsight is always 20/20 but its interesting to see that logic unfold in the early stages of this "thing" we are going through. I don't fault PJ for being in lock step with his party and making this thread at the time that he did but I think it highlights just another facet of the right being so totally wrong. And again I say that with all respect. Most of us didn't see such a shit storm including myself.
Sort of like the way that the left refuses to understand that all of Obama's policies are going to doom us to either a longer recession or a long period of slow growth.

The stock market is down 25% in the last two months. If Obama was doing the 'right' thing it would not continue its nose dive. But the market has no confidence in Obama and his policies and many people are worried that he is going to make things worse long term.

you mean when the market was skyrocketing towards 13,000 that means everything in the country was great and bush/congress were doing the "right" things? Oh wait, no, the market was totally fucking wrong about the state of the economy!

Using the Dow to justify what is "right" or "wrong" is fucking dumb.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: Bitek
hehe.. best P&N thread of all time. Even better than the "Its Over" thread. You may get it locked, but it will never die. Google cache lives forever

Jpeyton's "Zomg we are attacking Iran!" > this thread.

I rather enjoyed steeplerots gurantee that we would invade Iran by June of 05.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Honestly I don't think this thread should die. Hindsight is always 20/20 but its interesting to see that logic unfold in the early stages of this "thing" we are going through. I don't fault PJ for being in lock step with his party and making this thread at the time that he did but I think it highlights just another facet of the right being so totally wrong. And again I say that with all respect. Most of us didn't see such a shit storm including myself.
Sort of like the way that the left refuses to understand that all of Obama's policies are going to doom us to either a longer recession or a long period of slow growth.

The stock market is down 25% in the last two months. If Obama was doing the 'right' thing it would not continue its nose dive. But the market has no confidence in Obama and his policies and many people are worried that he is going to make things worse long term.
Actually in your defense it is something like that. There has to come a point at which the left and Obama are going to be increasingly responsible for at least some of what the stock market is going through. Obama brushed off the market meltdown today and its "gyrations". Feels a bit like Bush deriding opinion polls, doesn't it? I just read this and although much of it is debateable, the numbers are damning on what happened after Frank's comments on defense and Obama's on healthcare. Those particular stocks had a nail driven into them directly after these comments. The economy as a whole is totally screwed dry, but when you have big losses like that directly after government comments, there's only one source to blame.

 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Bitek
hehe.. best P&N thread of all time. Even better than the "Its Over" thread. You may get it locked, but it will never die. Google cache lives forever
Do a search on the surge and you will find TONS of people who were 100% wrong on it right from the start.

People who even after it was showing signs of working still insisted that it was a fluke and that it would fail long term.

I don't think you can compare me being wrong about the direction of the economy to nearly every left wing or anti-war poster being wrong about the surge.

Unfortunately, I can't bump any of those two year old threads because the system will not allow me too.

However, I can provide one example link. I believe this was the first of the 'surge is working' threads. Read it for yourself and start to count the number of people who were wrong about the success of the surge.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,862
3,295
136
Originally posted by: Genx87
This thread ==

hmmm, why would you post that? oh yeah...

Originally posted by: Genx87
If we see a recession it is pretty clear baring some disaster it should be mild. What this shows you is the power of the media to tell people their life sucks to the point they start to believe it.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Bitek
hehe.. best P&N thread of all time. Even better than the "Its Over" thread. You may get it locked, but it will never die. Google cache lives forever
Do a search on the surge and you will find TONS of people who were 100% wrong on it right from the start.

People who even after it was showing signs of working still insisted that it was a fluke and that it would fail long term.

I don't think you can compare me being wrong about the direction of the economy to nearly every left wing or anti-war poster being wrong about the surge.

Unfortunately, I can't bump any of those two year old threads because the system will not allow me too.

However, I can provide one example link. I believe this was the first of the 'surge is working' threads. Read it for yourself and start to count the number of people who were wrong about the success of the surge.
I was more pessimistic about the surge than I should have been but it's not quite as simple as it worked or didn't, as there were certainly other factors at work with it. Still, you have to admit being completely wrong about the surge is not on the same level as saying there's no recession and it in fact turning into the worst recession in most living-adults' lives.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: alien42
Originally posted by: Genx87
This thread ==

hmmm, why would you post that? oh yeah...

Originally posted by: Genx87
If we see a recession it is pretty clear baring some disaster it should be mild. What this shows you is the power of the media to tell people their life sucks to the point they start to believe it.

I posted that because this thread has long outlived its usefulness. Most threads that end up being nothing but a circle jerk over one poster are locked.

If you dont understand the bolded dont bother replying.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: alien42
Originally posted by: Genx87
This thread ==

hmmm, why would you post that? oh yeah...

Originally posted by: Genx87
If we see a recession it is pretty clear baring some disaster it should be mild. What this shows you is the power of the media to tell people their life sucks to the point they start to believe it.

I posted that because this thread has long outlived its usefulness. Most threads that end up being nothing but a circle jerk over one poster are locked.

If you dont understand the bolded dont bother replying.

So what you were saying was that unless things get really bad they won't get really bad? :)
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Well yes, baring a disaster the recession probably wouldnt have been as bad as we expected. Well the banks failing constitutes a pretty big god damn disaster in my book. ;)
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was more pessimistic about the surge than I should have been but it's not quite as simple as it worked or didn't, as there were certainly other factors at work with it. Still, you have to admit being completely wrong about the surge is not on the same level as saying there's no recession and it in fact turning into the worst recession in most living-adults' lives.
I didn't say any of the bolded though. And that seems to be the problem.

Too many people are pilling on without actually reading the content of my post.

There is a HUGE difference between the great depression and 'worst recession in most living-adults' lives'

You can't even compare the two of them. The 1981-82 recession was bad, but it was a walk in the park compared to the great depression or even the depressions of 1937 or 1957 all of which were much worse than anything we have seen so far.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was more pessimistic about the surge than I should have been but it's not quite as simple as it worked or didn't, as there were certainly other factors at work with it. Still, you have to admit being completely wrong about the surge is not on the same level as saying there's no recession and it in fact turning into the worst recession in most living-adults' lives.
I didn't say any of the bolded though. And that seems to be the problem.

Too many people are pilling on without actually reading the content of my post.

There is a HUGE difference between the great depression and 'worst recession in most living-adults' lives'

You can't even compare the two of them. The 1981-82 recession was bad, but it was a walk in the park compared to the great depression or even the depressions of 1937 or 1957 all of which were much worse than anything we have seen so far.
Stop bellyaching and eat your crow... and then move on, hopefully a little wiser.