The economy is STILL growing!!!!!!!!!! What happened to the recession???

[The-Noid]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
This thread is indeed hilarious, and the short-sighted bull-sycophants use as their prime metric current unemployment, grossly myopic in their inability to see that it's going to continue to get very much worse and worse and worse. The only way out of that is if there is what would amount to a national decree to stop laying people off and instead give them less work days or lowered salaries so that we can all take big pay cuts. The economic demand is not there and the jobs, or at least the hours or pay, are going out the window. This is real and not an illusion of negativity.

A.) Seriously, take government out of the economy and we would be doing better, this is what happens when you let the government step in with AIG and the banks now there is a step in everywhere and the market keeps looking tot he government to save them.
B.) There is worldwide stimulus and unlike the liberal pork plan we have that the rest of the world is making fun of, the ROW has actual stimulus plans that will increase the demand side. This quarter will be the worst in the recession and you can add that to your predictions.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
A.) Seriously, take government out of the economy and we would be doing better, this is what happens when you let the government step in with AIG and the banks now there is a step in everywhere and the market keeps looking tot he government to save them.

The last time the banking sector was in this kind of peril the Fed and the government stood around with it's hands in it's pockets while it literally imploded. The damage was so severe by the time they realized that inaction might not have been the best course the momentum of the bank failures was unstoppable. They are trying to keep that ball from rolling this time around albeit at signifigant expense to the taxpayer. Only when we come out the other side of this can the real costs/benefits be measured and a judgment made on the effectiveness of it.

 

[retrospooty]

Can we just let this thread die already? Every few weeks someone bumps it back up just to rub it in PJ's face.

Cant we just all admit, that he does have some valid points and valid observations, but failed to see the big picture on the economy as a whole and then leave it alone?

 

[shadow9d9]

This thread should be memorialized so they know what they are dealing with when they respond to nonprofjon.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Can we just let this thread die already? Every few weeks someone bumps it back up just to rub it in PJ's face.

Cant we just all admit, that he does have some valid points and valid observations, but failed to see the big picture on the economy as a whole and then leave it alone?

No because it has humbled him and we now see less threads started by him. Humbling someone has many upsides.

 

[The-Noid]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
A.) Seriously, take government out of the economy and we would be doing better, this is what happens when you let the government step in with AIG and the banks now there is a step in everywhere and the market keeps looking tot he government to save them.

The last time the banking sector was in this kind of peril the Fed and the government stood around with it's hands in it's pockets while it literally imploded. The damage was so severe by the time they realized that inaction might not have been the best course the momentum of the bank failures was unstoppable. They are trying to keep that ball from rolling this time around albeit at signifigant expense to the taxpayer. Only when we come out the other side of this can the real costs/benefits be measured and a judgment made on the effectiveness of it.

Suspend mark to market for 6 months see if it works, it will cost the tax payers no money. Setup an entity to dispose of banks that have trouble like the RTC. Keeping these banks afloat by injecting low level capital has done nothing to help them.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
A.) Seriously, take government out of the economy and we would be doing better, this is what happens when you let the government step in with AIG and the banks now there is a step in everywhere and the market keeps looking tot he government to save them.

The last time the banking sector was in this kind of peril the Fed and the government stood around with it's hands in it's pockets while it literally imploded. The damage was so severe by the time they realized that inaction might not have been the best course the momentum of the bank failures was unstoppable. They are trying to keep that ball from rolling this time around albeit at signifigant expense to the taxpayer. Only when we come out the other side of this can the real costs/benefits be measured and a judgment made on the effectiveness of it.

Suspend mark to market for 6 months see if it works, it will cost the tax payers no money. Setup an entity to dispose of banks that have trouble like the RTC. Keeping these banks afloat by injecting low level capital has done nothing to help them.

Listen, people like you (and me) had a friend in Hank Paulson when he was head of the Fed. The guy was very conservative when it came to bailing out these companies. He didn't want to do it. Unfortunately, the one time he stood his ground, when he let Lehman fall, was when the market really began to seize up and that forced them to look for a comprehensive solution to the crisis in the form of $700 Billion from Congress. Even though, by letting Lehman fail, Paulson did more damage to the economy than bailing them out, I still applaud it because I personally believe this contraction needs to be severe and bad enough to prevent us from repeating the same mistakes again, but not bad enough to cause another massive depression.

At times like these, the government's help is really needed.

 

[The-Noid]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
A.) Seriously, take government out of the economy and we would be doing better, this is what happens when you let the government step in with AIG and the banks now there is a step in everywhere and the market keeps looking tot he government to save them.

The last time the banking sector was in this kind of peril the Fed and the government stood around with it's hands in it's pockets while it literally imploded. The damage was so severe by the time they realized that inaction might not have been the best course the momentum of the bank failures was unstoppable. They are trying to keep that ball from rolling this time around albeit at signifigant expense to the taxpayer. Only when we come out the other side of this can the real costs/benefits be measured and a judgment made on the effectiveness of it.

Let me also comment on this. The FED did not sit around with it's hands in its pockets. It used economic theory that at the time seemed relevant. It tried to defend the dollar and the government passed laws to basically eliminate trade trying to revamp industries. This is what caused the depression and until the democratic house wrote a bill with American Built I never thought this would happen again. These are policies that seem like nonsense to a common American in this day and age (at least I hope).

What caused the depression to last as long as it did was the passage of the New Deal.

 

[The-Noid]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Yoxxy

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
A.) Seriously, take government out of the economy and we would be doing better, this is what happens when you let the government step in with AIG and the banks now there is a step in everywhere and the market keeps looking tot he government to save them.

The last time the banking sector was in this kind of peril the Fed and the government stood around with it's hands in it's pockets while it literally imploded. The damage was so severe by the time they realized that inaction might not have been the best course the momentum of the bank failures was unstoppable. They are trying to keep that ball from rolling this time around albeit at signifigant expense to the taxpayer. Only when we come out the other side of this can the real costs/benefits be measured and a judgment made on the effectiveness of it.

Suspend mark to market for 6 months see if it works, it will cost the tax payers no money. Setup an entity to dispose of banks that have trouble like the RTC. Keeping these banks afloat by injecting low level capital has done nothing to help them.

Listen, people like you (and me) had a friend in Hank Paulson when he was head of the Fed. The guy was very conservative when it came to bailing out these companies. He didn't want to do it. Unfortunately, the one time he stood his ground, when he let Lehman fall, was when the market really began to seize up and that forced them to look for a comprehensive solution to the crisis in the form of $700 Billion from Congress. Even though, by letting Lehman fail, Paulson did more damage to the economy than bailing them out, I still applaud it because I personally believe this contraction needs to be severe and bad enough to prevent us from repeating the same mistakes again, but not bad enough to cause another massive depression.

At times like these, the government's help is really needed.

I couldn't agree more letting Lehman fail went off much worse than they could have imagined. That is why they let the capital train go down the tracks to make the common public know that their ATM card was going to work when they put it in the machine.

At this point the government has had months to decide what needs to be done next. The best solution to uphold free markets is for an RTC like structure. Bankruptcy was not created for these megabanks and other multi-nationals. Bring back the RTC and bring back Bill Siedman.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Can we just let this thread die already? Every few weeks someone bumps it back up just to rub it in PJ's face.

Cant we just all admit, that he is a huge moron?

I think it's hilarious every time, and so do a lot of other people. Until it stops being funny, we'll continue seeing this thread coming back from the dead to give us another good laugh

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
[Read the whole post and tell me where I was wrong.

The panic of 2008???


What the hell is wrong with these idiots. The economy is a mild slow down right now not even a full blown recession.

The 2000/2001 had three non-consecutive quarters with negative economic growth. We have yet to have one quarter of economic growth.

And the 1981-82 recession makes what we are going throw now look like a mild set back. In December of 1982 unemployment hit 10.8% more than double our current rate. And at the same time we had the S&L crisis and a bank crisis during which the 7th largest bank in the country failed (though it didn't fail until 1984)

Instead of referring to the death of Reaganomics we should be talking about the death of history since no one seems to remember what a real recession is like.

Think about it... 6 months AFTER that post an unemployment is STILL lower than the 1982 recession.

When unemployment hits 9% and stays there for a WHOLE YEAR then talk to me about how bad things are.

You know this is one of the few times where I hope you are right

Who cares if he 'admits' anything? So, things get worse and he says he admits it. Big deal.

We know what we need to know now, as far as that the fundamental economic issues are worse in this situation than the recessions in several decades.

The systemic issues, the ability to recover, is different; 'symptoms so far' isn't the only measure. We have all the top experts basically saying this.

We know PJ is minimizing the issue, out of a knee-jerk desire to 'save face' and not 'lose the debate'.

I've long thought that the Great Depression can easily be treated a lot less severe too - '24% unemployment means over 75% are employed even at the worst period'; 'how many Americans starved to death? Did any?' and so on. But there's another factor involved in comparing this situation with the great depression.

In the great depression, the basics of the US economy were poised for recovery - our lack of internatioal debt, our manufacturing capacity, our natural resources, etc.

Today, the nation is in enormous debt, with increasing global competition, and its economic institutions vulnerable in ways that did not exist in the great depression.

They're two different situations. The comparison is of limited use, mainly in terms of trying to make the point that the current situation is significant.

But J's standard debate tactics to play games are not really of too much use in discussing it.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Can we just let this thread die already? Every few weeks someone bumps it back up just to rub it in PJ's face.

Cant we just all admit, that he does have some valid points and valid observations, but failed to see the big picture on the economy as a whole and then leave it alone?

No because it has humbled him and we now see less threads started by him. Humbling someone has many upsides.

LOL... Good point.

But in his place there are plenty of other bitter republicans on this forum posting anything and everything they can to keep whine parade moving.

 

[NeoV]

one more thing to add - I haven't seen anyone mention it, but I suspect the real reason behind PJ even starting this thread was an effort to 'eliminate', in his mind, the economy as an issue in the 08 election

As to refuting what you've said PJ? Look out the window, get out of your mother's basement, talk to people, set your homepage to something other than GOPtalkingpoints.com - it's all around you.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Can we just let this thread die already? Every few weeks someone bumps it back up just to rub it in PJ's face.

Cant we just all admit, that he does have some valid points and valid observations, but failed to see the big picture on the economy as a whole and then leave it alone?

No because it has humbled him and we now see less threads started by him. Humbling someone has many upsides.

LOL... Good point.

But in his place there are plenty of other bitter republicans on this forum posting anything and everything they can to keep whine parade moving.

If a right wing blow hard whines in P&N and no one is around to read it do they make a sound? This place is on the way to becoming a right wing circle jerk like AM talk radio.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Can we just let this thread die already? Every few weeks someone bumps it back up just to rub it in PJ's face.

Cant we just all admit, that he does have some valid points and valid observations, but failed to see the big picture on the economy as a whole and then leave it alone?

No because it has humbled him and we now see less threads started by him. Humbling someone has many upsides.

LOL... Good point.

But in his place there are plenty of other bitter republicans on this forum posting anything and everything they can to keep whine parade moving.

If a right wing blow hard whines in P&N and no one is around to read it do they make a sound? This place is on the way to becoming a right wing circle jerk like AM talk radio.

What is wrong, cant take the heat? Been 8 years of liberal circle jerking. Let us have our glory. You won get over it!

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Robor

If a right wing blow hard whines in P&N and no one is around to read it do they make a sound? This place is on the way to becoming a right wing circle jerk like AM talk radio.

What is wrong, cant take the heat? Been 8 years of liberal circle jerking. Let us have our glory. You won get over it!

It ain't the heat.

If I knew it was going to be like this I'd worn a cup

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Can we just let this thread die already? Every few weeks someone bumps it back up just to rub it in PJ's face.

Cant we just all admit, that he does have some valid points and valid observations, but failed to see the big picture on the economy as a whole and then leave it alone?

No because it has humbled him and we now see less threads started by him. Humbling someone has many upsides.

LOL... Good point.

But in his place there are plenty of other bitter republicans on this forum posting anything and everything they can to keep whine parade moving.

If a right wing blow hard whines in P&N and no one is around to read it do they make a sound? This place is on the way to becoming a right wing circle jerk like AM talk radio.

What is wrong, cant take the heat? Been 8 years of liberal circle jerking. Let us have our glory. You won get over it!

There's a difference between taking the heat and bothering to participate the worthless troll threads being posted lately.

GWB&Co had a miserable 8 years and earned the criticism they got. Obama just passed the 2 month mark.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Can we just let this thread die already? Every few weeks someone bumps it back up just to rub it in PJ's face.

Cant we just all admit, that he does have some valid points and valid observations, but failed to see the big picture on the economy as a whole and then leave it alone?

No because it has humbled him and we now see less threads started by him. Humbling someone has many upsides.

LOL... Good point.

But in his place there are plenty of other bitter republicans on this forum posting anything and everything they can to keep whine parade moving.

If a right wing blow hard whines in P&N and no one is around to read it do they make a sound? This place is on the way to becoming a right wing circle jerk like AM talk radio.

What is wrong, cant take the heat? Been 8 years of liberal circle jerking. Let us have our glory. You won get over it!

There's a difference between taking the heat and bothering to participate the worthless troll threads being posted lately.

GWB&Co had a miserable 8 years and earned the criticism they got. Obama just passed the 2 month mark.

Most of the garbage tossed at Bush was equally as trolling. Obama in his first 2 months has managed to do enough to warrant troll threads and legitimate complaints. It is only going to get worse as he implements more of his command and control economy. When he nationalizes the banks it will get even hotter in here.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Robor

If a right wing blow hard whines in P&N and no one is around to read it do they make a sound? This place is on the way to becoming a right wing circle jerk like AM talk radio.

What is wrong, cant take the heat? Been 8 years of liberal circle jerking. Let us have our glory. You won get over it!

It ain't the heat.

If I knew it was going to be like this I'd worn a cup

Ill be honest and say it is surprising how much it has changed. I almost wonder if there arent professional piss and moan artists who all they do is piss and moan no matter who is in charge

I really expected this board to be one giant circle jerk about how great Obama is and how Democrats are running this perfectly. But it is apparent that is clearly not going to happen for now.

 

[Fern]

Sheesh people, this "OMGz!!! what pwnage" stuff is silly - see below.

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: KB

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
This thread makes me laugh every time I see the title.

Me too.

Anyone seen PJ? Did he apologize for this thread yet?

C'mon people, this is stupid.

This thread was created in August '08, at that time GDP was increasing:

The gross domestic product, the broadest measure of the nation's economic activity, grew at an annual rate of 1.9% in the three months ended in June. That's up from a revised 0.9% growth rate in the first quarter.

He was right about his 3rd and 4th quarter predictions too. His 2009 prediction remains to be seen.

Fern

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Can we just let this thread die already? Every few weeks someone bumps it back up just to rub it in PJ's face.

Cant we just all admit, that he does have some valid points and valid observations, but failed to see the big picture on the economy as a whole and then leave it alone?

No because it has humbled him and we now see less threads started by him. Humbling someone has many upsides.

LOL... Good point.

But in his place there are plenty of other bitter republicans on this forum posting anything and everything they can to keep whine parade moving.

If a right wing blow hard whines in P&N and no one is around to read it do they make a sound? This place is on the way to becoming a right wing circle jerk like AM talk radio.

What is wrong, cant take the heat? Been 8 years of liberal circle jerking. Let us have our glory. You won get over it!

There's a difference between taking the heat and bothering to participate the worthless troll threads being posted lately.

GWB&Co had a miserable 8 years and earned the criticism they got. Obama just passed the 2 month mark.

Most of the garbage tossed at Bush was equally as trolling. Obama in his first 2 months has managed to do enough to warrant troll threads and legitimate complaints. It is only going to get worse as he implements more of his command and control economy. When he nationalizes the banks it will get even hotter in here.

Two month mark? He was sworn in on Jan. 20. And while by no means perfect, no, he hasn't earned nearly the amount of the shit flung at him. Right-wingers had their pail's filled and ready regardless of Obama's actions just because their guy left covered in his well-earned poo.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Fern
Sheesh people, this "OMGz!!! what pwnage" stuff is silly - see below.

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: KB

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
This thread makes me laugh every time I see the title.

Me too.

Anyone seen PJ? Did he apologize for this thread yet?

C'mon people, this is stupid.

This thread was created in August '08, at that time GDP was increasing:

The gross domestic product, the broadest measure of the nation's economic activity, grew at an annual rate of 1.9% in the three months ended in June. That's up from a revised 0.9% growth rate in the first quarter.

He was right about his 3rd and 4th quarter predictions too. His 2009 prediction remains to be seen.

Fern

No, it wasn't "covered", you'd have to be pretty ill-informed to not realize we were already in a recession by last summer. He was explicitly told GDP didn't mean jack if all other indicators were either already very poor or trending very poor. And bottom line, he ended up being wrong. No lame excuses about a <1% increase in GDP can make up for it.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Plus, if GDP isn't beating inflation, you're not growing. In the summer, inflation was around 3.5% to 4%

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: Fern
Sheesh people, this "OMGz!!! what pwnage" stuff is silly - see below.

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: KB

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
This thread makes me laugh every time I see the title.

Me too.

Anyone seen PJ? Did he apologize for this thread yet?

C'mon people, this is stupid.

This thread was created in August '08, at that time GDP was increasing:

The gross domestic product, the broadest measure of the nation's economic activity, grew at an annual rate of 1.9% in the three months ended in June. That's up from a revised 0.9% growth rate in the first quarter.

He was right about his 3rd and 4th quarter predictions too. His 2009 prediction remains to be seen.

Fern

You can keep aplogizing all you want (its what you do best) but it is still pwnage.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Plus, if GDP isn't beating inflation, you're not growing. In the summer, inflation was around 3.5% to 4%

Depends on the causes of the inflation and their input into the economy and prices.