The Eastman Memo, the coup memo

[hal2kilo]

It’s like all the people saying Eastman should be arrested - for what?

Advising illegal actions. Disbarment should be in order at the minimum.

 

[blackangst1]

Yes this whole thing was far worse than anyone can imagine. They wanted to have fighting in the streets!

Trump wanted a different insurrection: Jan. 6 hearing reveals violent intent behind Pence plot | Salon.com

Over the many months of revelations about Donald Trump's attempted coup, one lingering question has rarely been asked: What would have come next if Vice President Mike Pence had done what they asked?

If I recall, the matter would go to the House; however, without a Google check, we all know he legally couldnt do that, so whatever legal fallout happened, who knows? Ultimately, I dont think it would have changed the results of the election.

 

[thilanliyan]

If I recall, the matter would go to the House; however, without a Google check, we all know he legally couldnt do that, so whatever legal fallout happened, who knows? Ultimately, I dont think it would have changed the results of the election.

Illegality didn't stop people swarming the Capitol...why would it stop people who could probably get away with it? They'd do it and ask for pardons probably, or change the rules.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Illegality didn't stop people swarming the Capitol...why would it stop people who could probably get away with it? They'd do it and ask for pardons probably, or change the rules.

Remember, criminals are going to break the law regardless so why bother with laws in the first place /S

 

[fskimospy]

If I recall, the matter would go to the House; however, without a Google check, we all know he legally couldnt do that, so whatever legal fallout happened, who knows? Ultimately, I dont think it would have changed the results of the election.

The goal was one of two things - either Pence throws out Biden electors and declares Trump the winner or he says he can’t tell if they are legit or not, at which point it would go to the House, which would have declared Trump the winner. (Votes are based on states, not members)

The memo is pretty clear this is a political play, not a legal one. The purpose was to have Trump declared the winner and establish facts on the ground. Can the Supreme Court order the sitting president who was just re-elected by the will of Congress to step down? If they did, would Trump obey? How confident are you in ‘yes’, knowing what we know now?

Like I’ve said before if Pence did that we have a coup on our hands and the law no longer matters. I don’t know who wins in that case but it’s whoever can muster more political and military power, which favors the incumbent president.

I made the mistake at the end of 2020 of too blithely dismissing Trump’s chances of success because his lawsuits were so clownish. Turns out his real play is was to ignore the law entirely and it almost worked.

 

[cytg111]

Because I think its clear now the whole plan was not legal, and couldnt be done anyway. The article I posted also said as much.

Saving face for an audience of one, yourself, why bother?

 

[Commodus]

Like I’ve said before if Pence did that we have a coup on our hands and the law no longer matters. I don’t know who wins in that case but it’s whoever can muster more political and military power, which favors the incumbent president.

I made the mistake at the end of 2020 of too blithely dismissing Trump’s chances of success because his lawsuits were so clownish. Turns out his real play is was to ignore the law entirely and it almost worked.

Political power maybe... military power, no. It was fairly clear the military wasn't going to entertain any attempt to use it as a bludgeon against democracy, despite the stereotype of the conservative general or soldier.

 

[woolfe9998]

LOL did you guys see that last hearing? Eastman may be royally fucked.

I love the part where WH counsel Hershmann tells him over the phone to "get the best fucking criminal attorney you can find." Then a few days after 1/6, Eastman sends Guiliani an e-mail asking to be put on Trump's "pardon list." He knew that all of this was criminal right from the get-go. What a scumbag.

 

[cytg111]

Political power maybe... military power, no. It was fairly clear the military wasn't going to entertain any attempt to use it as a bludgeon against democracy, despite the stereotype of the conservative general or soldier.

Well, wasnt one of the generals that objected to military intervention a Flynn? Mike’s brother?
How many generals would have to have a long knives night moment for those tables to turn?

 

[cytg111]

LOL did you guys see that last hearing? Eastman may be royally fucked.

I love the part where WH counsel Hershmann tells him over the phone to "get the best fucking criminal attorney you can find." Then a few days after 1/6, Eastman sends Guiliani an e-mail asking to be put on Trump's "pardon list." He knew that all of this was criminal right from the get-go. What a scumbag.

Was thinking about this yesterday… what if all of the scumbags have pardons in their back pocket? Then what?

 

[thilanliyan]

Was thinking about this yesterday… what if all of the scumbags have pardons in their back pocket? Then what?

Can a sitting president preemptively pardon people for crimes they have yet to be charged with?

 

[Pens1566]

Can a sitting president preemptively pardon people for crimes they have yet to be charged with?

Ford did with Nixon. Although it's untested theory.

 

[cytg111]

Can a sitting president preemptively pardon people for crimes they have yet to be charged with?

I think so? I remember it being discussed back when things were Trumpier.

 

[woolfe9998]

Can a sitting president preemptively pardon people for crimes they have yet to be charged with?

Sorry, had to edit this. The answer is yes since you used the phrase "charged with." The answer is no if you are referring to crimes not yet committed.

 

[blackangst1]

The goal was one of two things - either Pence throws out Biden electors and declares Trump the winner or he says he can’t tell if they are legit or not, at which point it would go to the House, which would have declared Trump the winner. (Votes are based on states, not members)

The memo is pretty clear this is a political play, not a legal one. The purpose was to have Trump declared the winner and establish facts on the ground. Can the Supreme Court order the sitting president who was just re-elected by the will of Congress to step down? If they did, would Trump obey? How confident are you in ‘yes’, knowing what we know now?

Like I’ve said before if Pence did that we have a coup on our hands and the law no longer matters. I don’t know who wins in that case but it’s whoever can muster more political and military power, which favors the incumbent president.

I made the mistake at the end of 2020 of too blithely dismissing Trump’s chances of success because his lawsuits were so clownish. Turns out his real play is was to ignore the law entirely and it almost worked.

Thankfully it didnt. Theres alot of "what if" in this thread, but ultimately Trump left office all the while claiming it was fraudulent. But who cares?

 

[blackangst1]

Saving face for an audience of one, yourself, why bother?

What? Ive basically been agreeing with most everyone in this thread. Can you provide me with what Im saving face from?

 

[fskimospy]

Thankfully it didnt. Theres alot of "what if" in this thread, but ultimately Trump left office all the while claiming it was fraudulent. But who cares?

I think we should care for the reasons just outlined. Yes you are right, in the end he did leave but it is very clear he had a plan for a coup and it is fairly likely that this coup plot failed because of ONE PERSON.

I think the fact that our democracy came that close to ending is a cause for extreme alarm. The #1 way I can think of to ward off future attempts is the vigorous prosecution of everyone involved - at a minimum you want people to know if they make a move like this and fail they are going to prison.

 

[fskimospy]

Ford did with Nixon. Although it's untested theory.

As woolfe mentioned the distinction here is that Nixon was pardoned for conduct he had already committed. If Nixon went to Ford and was like 'I'm going to commit a crime tomorrow' Ford couldn't have pardoned him for that. (until after he did it)

 

[thilanliyan]

As woolfe mentioned the distinction here is that Nixon was pardoned for conduct he had already committed.

Had he already been charged when given the pardon?

 

[Pens1566]

As woolfe mentioned the distinction here is that Nixon was pardoned for conduct he had already committed. If Nixon went to Ford and was like 'I'm going to commit a crime tomorrow' Ford couldn't have pardoned him for that. (until after he did it)

That wasn't the question though.

 

[JD50]

Guys, the coup wasn't successful so who cares? What a fucking clown.

 

[Pohemi]

Thankfully it didnt. Theres alot of "what if" in this thread, but ultimately Trump left office all the while claiming it was fraudulent. But who cares?

So as typical for conservatives...big nothingburger, amirite? You're still a clown.

 

[brycejones]

Thankfully it didnt. Theres alot of "what if" in this thread, but ultimately Trump left office all the while claiming it was fraudulent. But who cares?

What? Ive basically been agreeing with most everyone in this thread. Can you provide me with what Im saving face from?

You dishonest shit bag.

 

[fskimospy]

Had he already been charged when given the pardon?

He was never charged.

 

[HomerJS]

If I recall, the matter would go to the House; however, without a Google check, we all know he legally couldnt do that, so whatever legal fallout happened, who knows? Ultimately, I dont think it would have changed the results of the election.

So we just let everything just slide? If Pence did not certify and delayed for 10 days while looking for alternate slates pf electors from states there would have been blood in the streets.

You were the one who downplayed the Eastman memo when it first came out. I reminded you in another thread and got no response.