The downside of Crossfire

[Nextman916]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Nextman916
Yah ATi just slapped this one together my ass OP. is that why it took so long to get it out????

You're apparently assuming that taking a lot of time to do something means it's done "well"?
Sometimes people do bad work over long periods of time IRL- it's because adding time to a job doesn't magically improve it's quality.

I never said if it was done well or not, but just arguing to the OP that it wasnt just slapped together like some toy and that it obviously took time...

they obviously spent alot of time on it despite some quirks, sli also had numerous problems upon release

Not like a 16X12 60Hz limitation for X850 Crossfire, and not like a crappy non geometry scaling fallback like tiling that you can't change for ALL Crossfire?[/quote]
Wasnt there a reasoning that the x850 was limited to 1600x1200? go ahead and name some more flaws i wont dissagree but why not name some of sli's when it was first released while your at it?

.........3/3 ratio of negative experience HAH! more like 3/1000 if anything, your basically sayin that only 3 people have crossfire what about the other hundreds that do?

I doubt 100s of people have Missfire. One of those three being a video editor at a prominent web review site lends it credibility?[/quote]
Well i dont really think that 1000 people have crossfire, that my friend would be called sarcasm. And i said hundreds after because there is at least more than 100 people in the world with crossfire thus the word hundreds was used. Im sorry if i dont know the exact number of people that have it.

Care to post any positive experiences? most reviewers seem to praise it. I am no fanboy of anykind to either side it just pisses me off that you would actually have to nerve to post 3 negative feedbacks to crossfire and use that as a conclusion.

You will see more and more Crossfire woes as people foolish enough to spend $1000 on it do so. [/quote]
This is coming from a person who spends thousands already on sli?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I think that what most folks are worried about is, even if R580/R600 is faster (single card to single card) than the G71/G80 counterparts, if ATI doesn't get Xfire working correctly in short order, ATI still will not be able to grab the crown due to SLI.

Hence, all the animosity here in this thread.

'animosity' is 'built-in' to Video
=========================

Originally posted by: KeepItRed

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: KeepItRed

Originally posted by: Rollo
You will see more and more Crossfire woes as people foolish enough to spend $1000 on it do so.

Pssh at the rate ATI is dropping the X1800XT prices, the Master Cards will be virtually free!

early adopters of SLI had similar "woes" . . .

i ain't looking at X-fire until i upgrade my rig - next year . . . by then ALL the bugs will be worked out.

QFT, I'm estimating Catalyst 6.00 will have it all worked out.

doubtful

the bugs will be completely worked out with r600 . . . no external dongle and [likely] no mastercard
[although you will still need VISA or AMEX]
:Q

 

[schtuga]

What I would like to know is,

How flexible is the mix/match cards for crossfire?

If a guy has a x1800xl,will he be able to match it with a R580 master card?
Would it be worth it.

I was hoping to gain some pertinent info here,and ended reading about dualing gamers.

What I have got so far,is that xfire is new and has a few wrinkles to iron out,and if you want dual cards,sli is still the way to go,at least until the new chipsets and next gen cards come out.

Would this be a fair assesment?

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed

Originally posted by: Rollo
You will see more and more Crossfire woes as people foolish enough to spend $1000 on it do so.

Pssh at the rate ATI is dropping the X1800XT prices, the Master Cards will be virtually free!

Maybe then I would consider getting one, but they would also have to throw in the motherboard

 

[Asymptoke]

Originally posted by: schtuga
What I would like to know is,

How flexible is the mix/match cards for crossfire?

If a guy has a x1800xl,will he be able to match it with a R580 master card?
Would it be worth it.

I was hoping to gain some pertinent info here,and ended reading about dualing gamers.

What I have got so far,is that xfire is new and has a few wrinkles to iron out,and if you want dual cards,sli is still the way to go,at least until the new chipsets and next gen cards come out.

Would this be a fair assesment?

I think one of teh original selling points of Crossfire was that you could mix cards, although the preformance increase would be based on the lesser of the two cards. IOW, the r580 master card would be "dumbed down" to the level of the r520.

I think your assessment is fair, but I would change the phrase "has a few wrinkles to iron out" to "has a few major wrinkles to iron out." It'll come in time.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: schtuga
What I would like to know is,

How flexible is the mix/match cards for crossfire?

If a guy has a x1800xl,will he be able to match it with a R580 master card?
Would it be worth it.

I was hoping to gain some pertinent info here,and ended reading about dualing gamers.

What I have got so far,is that xfire is new and has a few wrinkles to iron out,and if you want dual cards,sli is still the way to go,at least until the new chipsets and next gen cards come out.

Would this be a fair assesment?

Sure- you can mix n match cards with Crossfire. It will slow down to the slowest card's speed, and disable memory to the smallest amount present if you do though.

Sound like an "advantage" to you?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I think that what most folks are worried about is, even if R580/R600 is faster (single card to single card) than the G71/G80 counterparts, if ATI doesn't get Xfire working correctly in short order, ATI still will not be able to grab the crown due to SLI.

Hence, all the animosity here in this thread.

Could be I guess. Personally, it irritates me that the early SLI woes (as well as the current glitches) have conveniently been forgotten about, but if it's ATI's multi-gpu solution than grab the pitchforks and torches.

No, they have not been forgotten, but have been mostly resolved yes? It's not anyone's fault that ATI is soooo very late to this game. Yes they will have growing pains, but you need to consider the fact that people who want to buy a dual card setup dont care about SLI's growing pains a year ago. They care about what is best as of right this instant. Because they are not going to buy a year ago right? They are buying today, or the iminent future. ATI will have to live with minimal sales to only the truly ATI loyal for Xfire.
SLI went through its growing pains and now is for the most part mature, not withstanding any further improvements. ATI has yet to go through ALL of that.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
No, they have not been forgotten, but have been mostly resolved yes? It's not anyone's fault that ATI is soooo very late to this game. Yes they will have growing pains, but you need to consider the fact that people who want to buy a dual card setup dont care about SLI's growing pains a year ago. They care about what is best as of right this instant. Because they are not going to buy a year ago right? They are buying today, or the iminent future. ATI will have to live with minimal sales to only the truly ATI loyal for Xfire.
SLI went through its growing pains and now is for the most part mature, not withstanding any further improvements. ATI has yet to go through ALL of that.

Keys, you are forgetting the "ATI Time Machine Syndrome".

Remember when the X1800XT was launched, it was "meant to be compared to the card that came out 5 months ago" and the 512GTX "is meant to be compared to the card that isn't out yet". (at least that I can find)

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: schtuga
What I would like to know is,

How flexible is the mix/match cards for crossfire?

If a guy has a x1800xl,will he be able to match it with a R580 master card?
Would it be worth it.

I was hoping to gain some pertinent info here,and ended reading about dualing gamers.

What I have got so far,is that xfire is new and has a few wrinkles to iron out,and if you want dual cards,sli is still the way to go,at least until the new chipsets and next gen cards come out.

Would this be a fair assesment?

Sure- you can mix n match cards with Crossfire. It will slow down to the slowest card's speed, and disable memory to the smallest amount present if you do though.

Sound like an "advantage" to you?

Actually it is. At that point you're only having to buy one card to get an increase in overall video performance. For people who don't want to dump $1000+ dollars on an dual VC setup, this gives them the chance to use their current card with an improvement, then purchase a nother card 1-2 months down the road to get a very nice step-up in performance. This way the end user isn't sinking over $1000 at a single time.

Sounds like a reasonable solution to me. I could be wrong though cause I have no first hand knowledge and I should just shut my mouth now.

 

[Nirach]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: schtuga
What I would like to know is,

How flexible is the mix/match cards for crossfire?

If a guy has a x1800xl,will he be able to match it with a R580 master card?
Would it be worth it.

I was hoping to gain some pertinent info here,and ended reading about dualing gamers.

What I have got so far,is that xfire is new and has a few wrinkles to iron out,and if you want dual cards,sli is still the way to go,at least until the new chipsets and next gen cards come out.

Would this be a fair assesment?

Sure- you can mix n match cards with Crossfire. It will slow down to the slowest card's speed, and disable memory to the smallest amount present if you do though.

Sound like an "advantage" to you?

Would it throttle down the master if teh slave was oc/ed to compete with the master?

I'm not particularly bothered about there being less memory, I don't think that this 'bigger number is better' culture surrounding graphics cards is worth the fluster it's getting...

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

No, they have not been forgotten, but have been mostly resolved yes? It's not anyone's fault that ATI is soooo very late to this game. Yes they will have growing pains, but you need to consider the fact that people who want to buy a dual card setup dont care about SLI's growing pains a year ago. They care about what is best as of right this instant. Because they are not going to buy a year ago right? They are buying today, or the iminent future. ATI will have to live with minimal sales to only the truly ATI loyal for Xfire.
SLI went through its growing pains and now is for the most part mature, not withstanding any further improvements. ATI has yet to go through ALL of that.

Good point keys. Current buyers only care about what works now and the SLI setups appear less problematic. IMO the SLI'd 7800GTX's (256MB) are more problem free than Crossfired (lol, that sounds like mismatched sparkplug wires) X1800XTs, but they don't offer as much performance. I guess it depends on what the buyer's looking for.

Originally posted by: Rollo
Keys, you are forgetting the "ATI Time Machine Syndrome".

Remember when the X1800XT was launched, it was "meant to be compared to the card that came out 5 months ago" and the 512GTX "is meant to be compared to the card that isn't out yet". (at least that I can find)

Lol, very funny Rollo. Your comment is valid in part but price point is really a much better way of comparing cards.

 

[nts]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Keys, you are forgetting the "ATI Time Machine Syndrome".

Remember when the X1800XT was launched, it was "meant to be compared to the card that came out 5 months ago" and the 512GTX "is meant to be compared to the card that isn't out yet". (at least that I can find)

Fine then what is the competition for the 7800GTX, the X850XT, the X1300/X1600, ... what? I've asked this before but you keep ignoring it.

And how can the X1800XT compete with a card that isn't available and is over $300+ in price?

You compare at price points, not launch times FFS. You need to be more creative in your ATi bashing.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Nextman916
Yah ATi just slapped this one together my ass OP. is that why it took so long to get it out???? they obviously spent alot of time on it despite some quirks, sli also had numerous problems upon release.........3/3 ratio of negative experience HAH! more like 3/1000 if anything, your basically sayin that only 3 people have crossfire what about the other hundreds that do? Care to post any positive experiences? most reviewers seem to praise it. I am no fanboy of anykind to either side it just pisses me off that you would actually have to nerve to post 3 negative feedbacks to crossfire and use that as a conclusion.

I couldn't find any positive user reviews of Crossfire. When I went looking the other day those 3 are the ones I found. Yes it's obvious ATi didn't put much thought into Crossfire originally, the fact that there is a composting chip and need for master card is proof of that. Have you already forgotten about the X850 Crossfire 60 Hz debacle? Since we know Crossfire's current shortcomings are going to extend to the R580 design, then we know ATi hadn't even considered it in its current designs and hastily threw it together in response to SLI.

Keys had a good point, it doesn't matter if Crossfire is having growing pains right now because consumers don't care about that. When they consider at two competing solutions, they look at what gives them the most value for their money and right now Crossfire falls woefully short.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
No, they have not been forgotten, but have been mostly resolved yes? It's not anyone's fault that ATI is soooo very late to this game. Yes they will have growing pains, but you need to consider the fact that people who want to buy a dual card setup dont care about SLI's growing pains a year ago. They care about what is best as of right this instant. Because they are not going to buy a year ago right? They are buying today, or the iminent future. ATI will have to live with minimal sales to only the truly ATI loyal for Xfire.
SLI went through its growing pains and now is for the most part mature, not withstanding any further improvements. ATI has yet to go through ALL of that.

Keys, you are forgetting the "ATI Time Machine Syndrome".

Remember when the X1800XT was launched, it was "meant to be compared to the card that came out 5 months ago" and the 512GTX "is meant to be compared to the card that isn't out yet". (at least that I can find)

can we find any 512GTXes?
:Q

Actually, we are comparing a x1800xtOC that IS here today to a 512GTX that"was" here yesterday as a "phantom edition", still unavailable today and may not be even be here tomorrow


at least when ATi launches a card it gets MORE available and cheaper as production ramps up . . . not LESS available and more expensive . . . seems ATi is doing it the way it ought to be done.

:laugh:

as to x-fire . . . just the same 'growing pains' that SLi had . . . ATi fans will gladly put up with it if they want a top solution . . . no one can even FIND two [reasonably priced] 512GTXes . . . that leaves x1800xt X-fire - if you want it now - by default.

 

[rbV5]

Seems like a mostly positive experience so far. Link

 

[imported_thefonz]

Originally posted by: rbV5
Seems like a mostly positive experience so far. Link

That is a awsome system.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: rbV5
Seems like a mostly positive experience so far. Link

Well at least that's something. I give more weight to end user experience than I do reviews since it's people like us that will use this system daily and not just a few days for a quick review. So right now we're at 3 negatives and 1 positive experience with Crossfire.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: rbV5
Seems like a mostly positive experience so far. Link

Yeah, wowee, he's having a great time!

FEAR - Can still bring my system to its knees with all the settings turned up high I found out. I wanted to try FEAR at my monitor's native resolution, but FEAR doesn't go that high or support widescreen I guess. I think I remember hearing though that Crossfire didn't offer much for FEAR as of yet, but I still wanted to try it. I was able to run at 1152x864 with everything set to medium and 2x AA and 8x AS.

IMPRESSIVE! (not)

I ran the stress test yesterday and got 59fps average, with 89% over 40fps, at 16X12 2X8X, all maxed.

Crossfire needs a better spokesman than this guy, or ATI will go the way of 3DFX!

Heh- I beat him by a few points on 3Dmark 05 as well!

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: rbV5
Seems like a mostly positive experience so far. Link

Yeah, wowee, he's having a great time!

FEAR - Can still bring my system to its knees with all the settings turned up high I found out. I wanted to try FEAR at my monitor's native resolution, but FEAR doesn't go that high or support widescreen I guess. I think I remember hearing though that Crossfire didn't offer much for FEAR as of yet, but I still wanted to try it. I was able to run at 1152x864 with everything set to medium and 2x AA and 8x AS.

IMPRESSIVE! (not)

I ran the stress test yesterday and got 59fps average, with 89% over 40fps, at 16X12 2X8X, all maxed.

Crossfire needs a better spokesman than this guy, or ATI will go the way of 3DFX!

Heh- I beat him by a few points on 3Dmark 05 as well!

Ferrari is going to go bankrupt because the Lamborgini is faster.

You apparently don't have the intelligence to see that it's not bad because a marginal difference in FPS means NOTHING. That does not mean the cards are bad or people shouldn't use them. The human eye isn't going to be able to tell those couple of FPS you gained in the long run. So what the hell does it matter?

It matters cause it's nVidia. Whatever.

I find it funny that you didn't respond back to my post about the advantages of being able to upgrade 1 card at a time. I'm not surprised though. Anytime someone puts something correct about ATI, you avoid it like the plague.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
No, they have not been forgotten, but have been mostly resolved yes? It's not anyone's fault that ATI is soooo very late to this game. Yes they will have growing pains, but you need to consider the fact that people who want to buy a dual card setup dont care about SLI's growing pains a year ago. They care about what is best as of right this instant. Because they are not going to buy a year ago right? They are buying today, or the iminent future. ATI will have to live with minimal sales to only the truly ATI loyal for Xfire.
SLI went through its growing pains and now is for the most part mature, not withstanding any further improvements. ATI has yet to go through ALL of that.

Keys, you are forgetting the "ATI Time Machine Syndrome".

Remember when the X1800XT was launched, it was "meant to be compared to the card that came out 5 months ago" and the 512GTX "is meant to be compared to the card that isn't out yet". (at least that I can find)

can we find any 512GTXes?
:Q

Actually, we are comparing a x1800xtOC that IS here today to a 512GTX that"was" here yesterday as a "phantom edition", still unavailable today and may not be even be here tomorrow


at least when ATi launches a card it gets MORE available and cheaper as production ramps up . . . not LESS available and more expensive . . . seems ATi is doing it the way it ought to be done.

:laugh:

as to x-fire . . . just the same 'growing pains' that SLi had . . . ATi fans will gladly put up with it if they want a top solution . . . no one can even FIND two [reasonably priced] 512GTXes . . . that leaves x1800xt X-fire - if you want it now - by default.

Sounds like you've already forgotten the 7800GTX and 7800GT launches. ATI is finally filling the stock they said they would have and prices have come down dramatically, but it was slow in coming. Hopefully R580 will fare better with immediate, and continued availability. So, I don't see what your laughing about other than to intentionally be annoying. Don't mean it as an insult, just calling it like I see it.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: rbV5
Seems like a mostly positive experience so far. Link

Well at least that's something. I give more weight to end user experience than I do reviews since it's people like us that will use this system daily and not just a few days for a quick review. So right now we're at 3 negatives and 1 positive experience with Crossfire.

Its not much to go on, which says something in itself...there just hasn't been widespread adoption of Crossfire. I'm somewhat interested myself for my new build, and I have an X800XL I'm not using to offset some of the cost of the Crossfire Edition board. I may just get something better for one of my AGP rigs though since the single X1800XT is pretty fast all on its own, and its just in my stock clocked HTPC to try out.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
You apparently don't have the intelligence to see that it's not bad because a marginal difference in FPS means NOTHING.

One of us is apparently "lacking intelligence".

Ristogod's post causes me to say "Crossfire needs a better spokesman" because if he was only able to runFEAR on X1800XT Crossfire at medium settings at 2X8X, something is WOEFULLY WRONG with his system.

As far as "intelligence" goes, if you think running at 16X12 2X8X, all maxed, isn't a Hell of a lot better than a "marginal difference" over 11X8 2X8X, medium setting, you might want to read up on why we buy expensive parts.

I even let him slide on not knowing how to switch the resolution to a custom setting because it's a mistake I've mad myself. (and I guarantee I heard about it)

You apparently don't know much about this subject, perhaps you should read up before replying?

Hint: His faster processor, faster graphics should have BEAT ME, not "Oh noes, I have to turn down the details". :roll:

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: rbV5
Seems like a mostly positive experience so far. Link

Well at least that's something. I give more weight to end user experience than I do reviews since it's people like us that will use this system daily and not just a few days for a quick review. So right now we're at 3 negatives and 1 positive experience with Crossfire.

Its not much to go on, which says something in itself...there just hasn't been widespread adoption of Crossfire. I'm somewhat interested myself for my new build, and I have an X800XL I'm not using to offset some of the cost of the Crossfire Edition board. I may just get something better for one of my AGP rigs though since the single X1800XT is pretty fast all on its own, and its just in my stock clocked HTPC to try out.

Your statement here raises the question of the day. Why hasn't Xfire been widely adopted? Is it availability? Cost? SLI already proven in the field with widespread reviews? That damn dongle? Could be parts of all these reasons and more. No motherboards "approved by ATI" available? There are so many reasons why it is not "taking off". And I don't think it will ever be as successful as SLI is. People might be looking at Xfire as a half assed attempt from ATI to "appear" like they have the same thing, only better. And we have to acknowledge that it does actually appear "half assed" with the Master Card requirement, external dongle. Those two things alone is a big turnoff IMHO. I am not a potential dual card customer, but I can see where things stand right now. People are "squeamish" about adopting Xfire over SLI if they intend to go dual cards. At least that is what I think is happening.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: rbV5
Seems like a mostly positive experience so far. Link

Well at least that's something. I give more weight to end user experience than I do reviews since it's people like us that will use this system daily and not just a few days for a quick review. So right now we're at 3 negatives and 1 positive experience with Crossfire.

Its not much to go on, which says something in itself...there just hasn't been widespread adoption of Crossfire. I'm somewhat interested myself for my new build, and I have an X800XL I'm not using to offset some of the cost of the Crossfire Edition board. I may just get something better for one of my AGP rigs though since the single X1800XT is pretty fast all on its own, and its just in my stock clocked HTPC to try out.

Your statement here raises the question of the day. Why hasn't Xfire been widely adopted? Is it availability? Cost? SLI already proven in the field with widespread reviews? That damn dongle? Could be parts of all these reasons and more. No motherboards "approved by ATI" available? There are so many reasons why it is not "taking off". And I don't think it will ever be as successful as SLI is. People might be looking at Xfire as a half assed attempt from ATI to "appear" like they have the same thing, only better. And we have to acknowledge that it does actually appear "half assed" with the Master Card requirement, external dongle. Those two things alone is a big turnoff IMHO. I am not a potential dual card customer, but I can see where things stand right now. People are "squeamish" about adopting Xfire over SLI if they intend to go dual cards. At least that is what I think is happening.

You might be right about its ultimate adoption, but obviously the lack of important pieces of the solution untill recently is plays a big part. I don't think the Compositing Chip/Master Card or Dongle make it so much a half-assed approach, it does offer some advantages...it does most definately narrow the ultimate user base to only lower end..less featured, novelty solutions like x1300/x1600, or Ultra High-end 2x X1800XT, which IMO is the only real legit setup for Crossfire anyway.

I think for widespread adoption of Crossfire, ATI would need to allow Crossfire on any 2x PCIe8/16 motherboard, and Crossfire dual card modes minus the mastercard for ANY ATI PCIe card even if its a reduced feature mode. Otherwise, I think its only for Ultra-Highend, and I suspect it will prove to be more good than bad.

 

[KeepItRed]

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: Rollo
Keys, you are forgetting the "ATI Time Machine Syndrome".

Remember when the X1800XT was launched, it was "meant to be compared to the card that came out 5 months ago" and the 512GTX "is meant to be compared to the card that isn't out yet". (at least that I can find)

Fine then what is the competition for the 7800GTX, the X850XT, the X1300/X1600, ... what? I've asked this before but you keep ignoring it.

And how can the X1800XT compete with a card that isn't available and is over $300+ in price?

You compare at price points, not launch times FFS. You need to be more creative in your ATi bashing.

LOL I remember the time The Inquirer said that ATI said "The X1800XT 512MB is meant to be compared to the 7800GTX 256MB. ATI will release a "PE" version that will compete with the 7800GTX 512MB."