The Day After The Election: What will P&N be like?

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Gaard
If I have no respect for President Bush does that mean I also have no respect for the presidency?
No.

If I don't respect one president, but do respect another, where do I fall in regards to respecting the presidency?
Logically, no conclusion can be drawn as you have not addressed your opinion about the office of the Presidency with either opinion about people who have inhabited it.

All those righties who despised Clinton when he was President would be mightly quick to tell you that they still respected the office.

This distinction is obvious to every thinking person, even CAD. He just doesn't want to admit that he was caught overreaching in his accusation.

No - the difference is that the poll wasn't asking about the person - it was about the institution - you know...the office of the Presidency. So it is YOU who just doesn't want to admit that 56 people don't respect/have confidence in the Presidency. Again - it wasn't about the person or persons - it was about the institutions.

There is plenty of disrespect shown for the Presidency and the President on this forum - sorry you don't seem to want to admit that.

Have a nice night.

CkG

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Gaard
If I have no respect for President Bush does that mean I also have no respect for the presidency?
No.

If I don't respect one president, but do respect another, where do I fall in regards to respecting the presidency?
Logically, no conclusion can be drawn as you have not addressed your opinion about the office of the Presidency with either opinion about people who have inhabited it.

All those righties who despised Clinton when he was President would be mightly quick to tell you that they still respected the office.

This distinction is obvious to every thinking person, even CAD. He just doesn't want to admit that he was caught overreaching in his accusation.

No - the difference is that the poll wasn't asking about the person - it was about the institution - you know...the office of the Presidency. So it is YOU who just doesn't want to admit that 56 people don't respect/have confidence in the Presidency. Again - it wasn't about the person or persons - it was about the institutions.

There is plenty of disrespect shown for the Presidency and the President on this forum - sorry you don't seem to want to admit that.

Have a nice night.

CkG

Simply put, lack of confidence does not equal disrespect.

You continue to want to blur the distinction between the office of the Presidency and the current President.

It is a fundamentally dishonest thing to do. :|

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
We will act, as always, with grace and compassion for those who have been mislead by the Democrats.

We will continue to try and educate and enlighten the youth of our country..

We will eschew rabid partisanship.

We shall accept our mandate to govern with humility.

Holy Crap, it's Rush.

I knew he was posting in here.

 

[Gaard]

So it is YOU who just doesn't want to admit that 56 people don't respect/have confidence

Again, you equate respect and confidence with each other as if they are the same, or you can't have either one without the other. Either you are purposely being intellectually dishonest, or you are just wrong.

I guess you have chosen not to step thru the open door?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
No, it's not Clintonesque.
Yes, it is. Although I guess it depends on what your defintion of "is" is. :roll:


I'm not going to play your little "name names" because you won't accept that either.
Yes I will. I promise you. Name names and attach proof in the form of quotes and let the whole forum decide. Or, you can just continue to wiggle and weasel. Lastly, CAD, backing up your accusations with verifiable proof is not a game, it is the only honorable and verifiable thing to do.


There have been plenty of examples of being disrespectful of the President and the office on this forum.
Then show us one, CAD.


If you haven't seen one then you haven't been paying attention.
Oh, I'm paying attention. That's why your currently wriggling on the hook, worm.

The attitude displayed at times here towards the Presidency is shameful and entirely disrespectful.
PROOF?!? Please provide proof!!!


That poll thread only supports the premise [:roll:] that 56 people here lack respect for the office/institution of the Presidency - which is disrespect by definition.
That poll:

how much confidence you, yourself, have in the Presidency? (Total Votes: 90)
A Great Deal
15 votes 16.67 (%)
Quite a lot
8 votes 8.89 (%)
Some
11 votes 12.22 (%)
Very little
56 votes 62.22 (%)

ONLY SHOWS that 56 people have very little confidence in the Presidency. Your ASSumption is a fundamentally DISHONEST LYING LEAP. The disrespectful actions of George Bush are the reason why.

I bet you $100, here and now, that if we ask those 56 folks whether they disrespect the office of the Presidency or just despair at how George Bush has handled it, most all will say the latter, and NEVER the former.

You have stretched the truth here, CAD. :|

Still doesn't change things perk. They lack confidence in the institution(which is what the poll was about) - meaning they have no respect for it and/or have lost respect for it. Let me ask you this - how do you respect things you have no confidence in? Now lets take the MODs for example. I respect them because they have a hard job to do and I also have confidence in them even though I often disagree with them and how they handle things. But by what you seem to be saying is that someone could have no confidence in the MODs but still somehow respect them? How does one do that?


Now run along and take your "prove it" with you. "disrespect" can be an attitude - it doesn't have to be action. No one is going to outright say they "disrespect" the President or the office if called on it...except for BOBDN, a few others(i guess gaard volunteered for half of it😉😛), and possibly some of our foreign members.

CkG

STILL no proof?

I'm not running anywhere, you little weasel BS artist.

Your poll asked about confidence in the Presidency. It blurs the distinction between the office itself and Bush.

Are you going to accept my bet, or are you just going to continue to weasel and wiggle?

No, the poll is quite clear. You can't weasel out of it by claiming it was blurred. Not only was the question about the INSTITUTION - I further reiterated that fact because the poll seemed to be showing people's disrespect for Bush instead of the institution. I guess those who took the poll after that definitely have no confidence and respect for the institution.

No i won't take your bet. Very few will publicly admit their disrespect for the Presidency as I stated and they'll hide behind their hatred of Bush.

I think you are making too big of deal over this. You took my non-specific statement and demanded tangible "proof". What you fail to understand is that disrespect can be an attitude and isn't always something that is blatant like "I disrespect _____." If you wish to continue to demand things then go ahead but it is you who is looking the fool. Do you really think everyone here and elsewhere has respect for the office? Note, my original statement was: "unlike some here and elsewhere that disrespect the President and the office." Seems your knee trigger is set a bit too tight...or my comments hit too close to home😉

CkG

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
That poll thread only supports the premise that 56 people here lack respect for the office/institution of the Presidency - which is disrespect by definition.

CkG

HTF do you equate lack of confidence with lack of respect?

Damn, CkG, you're falling into the realm of Edge3D and Passions with that kind of bullsh*t logic.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Perknose
Simply put, lack of confidence does not equal disrespect.

You continue to want to blur the distinction between the office of the Presidency and the current President.

It is a fundamentally dishonest thing to do. :|

No - I'm not blurring them at all. You can't see that 56 people have no confidence in the INSTITUTION of the President. The poll wasn't about Bush -it was about the office and institution of the Presidency.

So I could lack confidence in the Moderators here and you'd believe that I still had respect for them? For some reason I don't think that would be the case😉 But anyway - how is stating you have no confidence in something showing it respect? Disrespect is the lack of respect.

CkG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
That poll thread only supports the premise that 56 people here lack respect for the office/institution of the Presidency - which is disrespect by definition.

CkG

HTF do you equate lack of confidence with lack of respect?

Damn, CkG, you're falling into the realm of Edge3D and Passions with that kind of bullsh*t logic.

How do you equate "lack of confidence" with "respect"?

The lack of respect is disrespect. How exactly does stating you have no or little confidence in something equal "respect"?

CkG

 

[conjur]

Main Entry: 1con·fi·dence
Pronunciation: 'kän-f&-d&n(t)s, -"den(t)s
Function: noun
1 a : a feeling or consciousness of one's powers or of reliance on one's circumstances <had perfect confidence in her ability to succeed> <met the risk with brash confidence> b : faith or belief that one will act in a right, proper, or effective way <have confidence in a leader>
2 : the quality or state of being certain : CERTITUDE <they had every confidence of success>
3 a : a relation of trust or intimacy <took his friend into his confidence> b : reliance on another's discretion <their story was told in strictest confidence> c : support especially in a legislative body <vote of confidence>
4 : a communication made in confidence : SECRET
synonyms CONFIDENCE, ASSURANCE, SELF-POSSESSION, APLOMB mean a state of mind or a manner marked by easy coolness and freedom from uncertainty, diffidence, or embarrassment. CONFIDENCE stresses faith in oneself and one's powers without any suggestion of conceit or arrogance <the confidence that comes from long experience>. ASSURANCE carries a stronger implication of certainty and may suggest arrogance or lack of objectivity in assessing one's own powers <handled the cross-examination with complete assurance>. SELF-POSSESSION implies an ease or coolness under stress that reflects perfect self-control and command of one's powers <answered the insolent question with complete self-possession>. APLOMB implies a manifest self-possession in trying or challenging situations <handled the reporters with great aplomb>.



Entry Word: confidence
Function: noun
Text: 1
Synonyms TRUST 1, dependence, faith, hope, reliance, stock
Contrasted Words distrust, mistrust; despair, hopelessness
Antonyms doubt; apprehension
2 a feeling or showing of adequacy and reliance on oneself and one's powers <had serene confidence in his own ability to win>
Synonyms aplomb, assurance, self-assurance, self-assuredness, self-confidence, self-trust; compare EQUANIMITY
Related Word courage, mettle, resolution, spirit, tenacity; brashness, impudence, presumption
Contrasted Words apprehension, incertitude, misgiving, self-depreciation, self-doubt, uncertitude
Antonyms diffidence
3
Synonyms CERTAINTY, assurance, assuredness, certitude, conviction, sureness, surety
4
Synonyms EFFRONTERY, brashness, brass, cheek, chutzpah, ||crust, face, gall, nerve, presumption


You see the word "respect" listed among the synonyms?

Nope, you sure don't!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Gaard

So it is YOU who just doesn't want to admit that 56 people don't respect/have confidence

Again, you equate respect and confidence with each other as if they are the same, or you can't have either one without the other. Either you are purposely being intellectually dishonest, or you are just wrong.

I guess you have chosen not to step thru the open door?

So you're of the opinion that you can respect an institution/office of when you have not confidence in that very same institution/office of?

Seems like THAT is the intellectually dishonest position.😉

CkG

 

[conjur]

I hold the office of the President in rather high regard. That is respect.

However, I don't have the confidence that the office is being used properly (the Clinton's and their scandals; Bush and secretive and deceptive administration)

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur
Main Entry: 1con·fi·dence
Pronunciation: 'kän-f&amp;-d&amp;n(t)s, -"den(t)s
Function: noun
1 a : a feeling or consciousness of one's powers or of reliance on one's circumstances <had perfect confidence in her ability to succeed> <met the risk with brash confidence> b : faith or belief that one will act in a right, proper, or effective way <have confidence in a leader>
2 : the quality or state of being certain : CERTITUDE <they had every confidence of success>
3 a : a relation of trust or intimacy <took his friend into his confidence> b : reliance on another's discretion <their story was told in strictest confidence> c : support especially in a legislative body <vote of confidence>
4 : a communication made in confidence : SECRET
synonyms CONFIDENCE, ASSURANCE, SELF-POSSESSION, APLOMB mean a state of mind or a manner marked by easy coolness and freedom from uncertainty, diffidence, or embarrassment. CONFIDENCE stresses faith in oneself and one's powers without any suggestion of conceit or arrogance <the confidence that comes from long experience>. ASSURANCE carries a stronger implication of certainty and may suggest arrogance or lack of objectivity in assessing one's own powers <handled the cross-examination with complete assurance>. SELF-POSSESSION implies an ease or coolness under stress that reflects perfect self-control and command of one's powers <answered the insolent question with complete self-possession>. APLOMB implies a manifest self-possession in trying or challenging situations <handled the reporters with great aplomb>.



Entry Word: confidence
Function: noun
Text: 1
Synonyms TRUST 1, dependence, faith, hope, reliance, stock
Contrasted Words distrust, mistrust; despair, hopelessness
Antonyms doubt; apprehension
2 a feeling or showing of adequacy and reliance on oneself and one's powers <had serene confidence in his own ability to win>
Synonyms aplomb, assurance, self-assurance, self-assuredness, self-confidence, self-trust; compare EQUANIMITY
Related Word courage, mettle, resolution, spirit, tenacity; brashness, impudence, presumption
Contrasted Words apprehension, incertitude, misgiving, self-depreciation, self-doubt, uncertitude
Antonyms diffidence
3
Synonyms CERTAINTY, assurance, assuredness, certitude, conviction, sureness, surety
4
Synonyms EFFRONTERY, brashness, brass, cheek, chutzpah, ||crust, face, gall, nerve, presumption


You see the word "respect" listed among the synonyms?

Nope, you sure don't!

Again, how does stating you have no (or little) confidence in an institution equal you respecting it? You can respect things you have no confidence in?

CkG

 

[Perknose]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH . . .
No i won't take your bet.
BLAH BLAH BLAH

You COULD just admit you overreached and were wrong, CAD.

Everyone here sees that, you know.

Not admitting you're wrong when even you know your are just lets it fester within you.

Courage, CAD.

We would ALL think more of you for it.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur
I hold the office of the President in rather high regard. That is respect.

However, I don't have the confidence that the office is being used properly (the Clinton's and their scandals; Bush and secretive and deceptive administration)

That's fine, I would agree with your lack of confidence in who is in there and how they are running it(not Bush, but I hold that opinion of the Clinton admin) but that isn't the issue here. The poll wasn't asking about the person or persons - it specifically was about the 'institution of'.

Anyway my original statement was overblown by mr."prove-it". I doubt he can prove that eveyone here and elsewhere respects the office and the President. It wasn't a statement about "the left" or any specific group but there is no doubt that there are people here and elsewhere who lack respect for the office and the President.

CkG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur
I hold the office of the President in rather high regard. That is respect.

However, I don't have the confidence that the office is being used properly (the Clinton's and their scandals; Bush and secretive and deceptive administration)

That's fine, I would agree with your lack of confidence in who is in there and how they are running it(not Bush, but I hold that opinion of the Clinton admin) but that isn't the issue here. The poll wasn't asking about the person or persons - it specifically was about the 'institution of'.

Anyway my original statement was overblown by mr."prove-it". I doubt he can prove that eveyone here and elsewhere respects the office and the President. It wasn't a statement about "the left" or any specific group but there is no doubt that there are people here and elsewhere who lack respect for the office and the President.

CkG

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Again, how does stating you have no (or little) confidence in an institution equal you respecting it? You can respect things you have no confidence in?

CkG

Look above your post.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Perknose

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH . . .
No i won't take your bet.
BLAH BLAH BLAH

You COULD just admit you overreached and were wrong, CAD.

Everyone here sees that, you know.

Not admitting you're wrong when even you know your are just lets it fester within you.

Courage, CAD.

We would ALL think more of you for it.

I didn't over-reach. You may have over-reacted but that doesn't mean I over-reached. Stating that some here and elsewhere disrespect the President and the office isn't "over-reaching". Sorry.

CkG

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Perknose

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH . . .
No i won't take your bet.
BLAH BLAH BLAH

You COULD just admit you overreached and were wrong, CAD.

Everyone here sees that, you know.

Not admitting you're wrong when even you know your are just lets it fester within you.

Courage, CAD.

We would ALL think more of you for it.

I didn't over-reach. You may have over-reacted but that doesn't mean I over-reached. Stating that some here and elsewhere disrespect the President and the office isn't "over-reaching". Sorry.

CkG

No, that's not over-reaching but equating respect with confidence is.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Again, how does stating you have no (or little) confidence in an institution equal you respecting it? You can respect things you have no confidence in?

CkG

Look above your post.

Having no confidence in the person isn't the same as having no confidence in the institution. Like I stated in the poll thread - just because you may have a beef with the chief of police doesn't mean you can't respect the institution of the Police.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

I thought respect had to be earned? No? The president should get our automatic respect because of his office? I hardly think so.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Perknose

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH . . .
No i won't take your bet.
BLAH BLAH BLAH

You COULD just admit you overreached and were wrong, CAD.

Everyone here sees that, you know.

Not admitting you're wrong when even you know your are just lets it fester within you.

Courage, CAD.

We would ALL think more of you for it.

I didn't over-reach. You may have over-reacted but that doesn't mean I over-reached. Stating that some here and elsewhere disrespect the President and the office isn't "over-reaching". Sorry.

CkG

No, that's not over-reaching but equating respect with confidence is.

Nope - you still don't understand. I'll try again....

Can you respect an INSTITUTION you have no confidence in? Take the President out of the equation and use the Police. Would you really respect the institution of the Police if you had no confidence in it?
Disrespect is the lack of respect.

CkG

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Again, how does stating you have no (or little) confidence in an institution equal you respecting it? You can respect things you have no confidence in?

CkG

Look above your post.

Having no confidence in the person isn't the same as having no confidence in the institution. I didn't have much confidence in Clinton - but that doesn't mean I didn't have confidence in the institution. Like I stated in the poll thread - just because you may have a beef with the chief of police doesn't mean you can't respect the institution of the Police.

CkG

I never said I didn't have confidence in the person. I said I didn't have confidence in the way the office of the President has been used in the last several years (regardless of the President himself.) It's become too much of a mechanism to feed to power-hungry egos.

I still respect the office of the President, though. That "institution" as you call it is probably the most powerful position on the planet. That's not something I treat lightly and I do have respect for the office. Just not the best of confidence in the way the office has been run and treated.



I really don't know why you're so hung-up on this.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I thought respect had to be earned? No? The president should get our automatic respect because of his office? I hardly think so.

Replace President with Parents.

Even if your parents are the biggest scumbags in the world, shouldn't they be treated with respect?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur
I never said I didn't have confidence in the person. I said I didn't have confidence in the way the office of the President has been used in the last several years (regardless of the President himself.) It's become too much of a mechanism to feed to power-hungry egos.

I still respect the office of the President, though. That "institution" as you call it is probably the most powerful position on the planet. That's not something I treat lightly and I do have respect for the office. Just not the best of confidence in the way the office has been run and treated.



I really don't know why you're so hung-up on this.

I'm not "hung-up" on it. Perknose seems to be since he took my statement and blew it out of proportion.

I don't respect institutions that I don't have confidence in. However if I respect the institution and yet may not have full confidence in the person at the head - they do deserve the respect that position holds as they earned it by attaining that position.

Anyway - it should be interesting to see how the election turns out and how people here respond🙂 If this exchange isn't evidence enough that things will hotly debated - I don't know what evidence would convince you😀

CkG

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I thought respect had to be earned? No? The president should get our automatic respect because of his office? I hardly think so.

Replace President with Parents.

Even if your parents are the biggest scumbags in the world, shouldn't they be treated with respect?

My parents brought me into this world. They did a hell of a lot more for me than any politician did. They earned that respect.

On the other hand, I know of children abused and abandoned. Those parents warrant nothing. Sorry, but a parent who cuts their baby for the hell of it deserves nothing but time in jail.