The cost of homeless people.

[whm1974]

Chronically homeless often choose to be, but it's not like they had things going well for them, and just decided that freedom on the city streets would be better. They've likely been abused by cops, abused by criminals that hang around near shelters and the like, had bad experiences with trying to live at shelters, and on and on, and are probably long-time drug addicts. They can require years of help to rebuild trust in society, if not themselves.

I got off the streets with the help of an Mental Health non-profit organization who provide me with shelter and clothing along with legal services to aid me in getting disability. And of course I was granted some food stamps to get food.

I'm still a client of said organization.

 

[realibrad]

I got off the streets with the help of an Mental Health non-profit organization who provide me with shelter and clothing along with legal services to aid me in getting disability. And of course I was granted some food stamps to get food.

I'm still a client of said organization.

In your experience, how many people would or could turn their life around without mental health support?

From what I have seen having never been homeless mind you, is that the vast majority of people that are chronically homeless are like that because they simply cannot help themselves. I have known and talked to homeless people, but, I do not have first hand experience.

 

[whm1974]

In your experience, how many people would or could turn their life around without mental health support?

From what I have seen having never been homeless mind you, is that the vast majority of people that are chronically homeless are like that because they simply cannot help themselves. I have known and talked to homeless people, but, I do not have first hand experience.

Well I was only homeless for a few months, but I would say not very many.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I got off the streets with the help of an Mental Health non-profit organization who provide me with shelter and clothing along with legal services to aid me in getting disability. And of course I was granted some food stamps to get food.

I'm still a client of said organization.

It takes a lot of guts to admit your situation before such an audience as this one, many would condemn you rather than cheer your accomplishments. People who've never felt such loss have no clue what its like to be in your shoes and know nothing about how the despair can become overwhelming.

 

[realibrad]

Well I was only homeless for a few months, but I would say not very many.

That is what I worry about. I think many of these people will need lifetime support and that won't be popular.

 

[whm1974]

It takes a lot of guts to admit your situation before such an audience as this one, many would condemn you rather than cheer your accomplishments. People who've never felt such loss have no clue what its like to be in your shoes and know nothing about how the despair can become overwhelming.

Those folks should mindful that they can it is very easy to lose everything you own really fast. Medical bills can cause this as well as employers going belly up without any warning or notice.

 

[whm1974]

That is what I worry about. I think many of these people will need lifetime support and that won't be popular.

Never mind that it is actually cheaper to provide that then having the homeless wandering around.

 

[balloonshark]

I know how to fix suffering in the US and in the world. How many billionaires do we have again? Why do they need or even deserve that much money which only translates into power which translates into more money which translates into even more power, etc. etc. etc. We have runaway greed in the US and it doesn't benefit the vast majority of Americans.

 

[realibrad]

Never mind that it is actually cheaper to provide that then having the homeless wandering around.

That is often not enough. Its true that giving people things can save money, but most people cant understand that. Studies have been done where you give homeless people money, let them trash the place, and do it again, and it turns out to still save money so long as the place is cheap and shitty.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Those folks should mindful that they can it is very easy to lose everything you own really fast. Medical bills can cause this as well as employers going belly up without any warning or notice.

I know first hand what its like to have a decent standard of living and then to suddenly lose it which is where I'm at right now. I went back to school and got my degree but so far it hasn't helped me any and I'm still struggling to find a job but I'm not alone. I talked with several other vets today who are in the same boat and they are also struggling to find a job.

 

[whm1974]

That is often not enough. Its true that giving people things can save money, but most people cant understand that. Studies have been done where you give homeless people money, let them trash the place, and do it again, and it turns out to still save money so long as the place is cheap and shitty.

While I'm not the cleanest person in the world, I do have enough pride not to trash the place I live in. If nothing else I do pretty much enjoy having a safe place.

 

[realibrad]

While I'm not the cleanest person in the world, I do have enough pride not to trash the place I live in. If nothing else I do pretty much enjoy having a safe place.

Now you just need to incrementally add more wins. Good things have a habit of compounding and you string enough along and you end up in a much better place.

 

[bradly1101]

Homelessness is just an eviction or a 60-day notice away for many. It almost happened to me (new owners/building renovations).

Back when I was working my ass off volunteering for a church's food program for the homeless, like everywhere different people act/react differently. Ultimately I had to stop when I witnessed too much anger mgmt. problems and severe violence. One high school kid got shoved pretty hard; he was just there fulfilling his volunteering credit, and beatings were common. They had no staff or security to handle that.

The situation is very difficult to manage; gentrification, addictions... are huge culprits.

 

[Jhhnn]

.

I know how to fix suffering in the US and in the world. How many billionaires do we have again? Why do they need or even deserve that much money which only translates into power which translates into more money which translates into even more power, etc. etc. etc. We have runaway greed in the US and it doesn't benefit the vast majority of Americans.

It has become a form of hoarding. Mega-billionaires squeezing out the last nickel is compulsive & destructive behavior. Too many Americans want to be just like them.

 

[balloonshark]

.


It has become a form of hoarding. Mega-billionaires squeezing out the last nickel is compulsive & destructive behavior. Too many Americans want to be just like them.

I actually came up with a name for it a while back. I call it trickle down greed.

 

[Greenman]

No, this is incredibly false.

https://sf.curbed.com/2017/3/8/14856316/san-francisco-density-map

SF density - 18,262
NYC density - 28,256
Mumbai density - 53,000
Paris density - 55,000
Manila density - 107,497

Ok. Take a map of SF and show me where there is room to build. Unless you're talking about block after block of ten story buildings, it ain't ever going to happen. A lot SF's infrastructure is also very old, the storm and sanitary sewers are one system, so treatment becomes an issue as you increase density.
My main question is why is it needed? Why does every business on the west cost need to be in SF? Why does SF need a population of two million?
I'm biased in that I hate crowed, dirty, city's. I hate stepping in human shit as I walk down the street, I hate being accosted by pan handlers, I hate driving around for half an hour looking for a place to park, I hate the drone of a hundred thousand people packed in around me. Having said all that, it's apparent my issue here is more emotional than particle.

 

[realibrad]

Ok. Take a map of SF and show me where there is room to build. Unless you're talking about block after block of ten story buildings, it ain't ever going to happen. A lot SF's infrastructure is also very old, the storm and sanitary sewers are one system, so treatment becomes an issue as you increase density.
My main question is why is it needed? Why does every business on the west cost need to be in SF? Why does SF need a population of two million?
I'm biased in that I hate crowed, dirty, city's. I hate stepping in human shit as I walk down the street, I hate being accosted by pan handlers, I hate driving around for half an hour looking for a place to park, I hate the drone of a hundred thousand people packed in around me. Having said all that, it's apparent my issue here is more emotional than particle.

Oh forgive me master. I did not realize I was speaking to royalty that got to decide how dense everyone else needs to live. We will let places like NYC be the squalor that it continues to be, but not SF. SF shall remain the way it has been declared!

 

[Greenman]

Oh forgive me master. I did not realize I was speaking to royalty that got to decide how dense everyone else needs to live. We will let places like NYC be the squalor that it continues to be, but not SF. SF shall remain the way it has been declared!

Isn't that for the people of SF to decide? I would think that would be the democratic solution.

 

[realibrad]

Isn't that for the people of SF to decide? I would think that would be the democratic solution.

The people want more density generally.

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/02/11/bay-area-residents-want-more-housing-but/

Of the 900 registered voters surveyed, 64 percent said they favor building significant quantities of new housing, and 53 percent said they would support new construction even if it changed the character of their neighborhood. But fewer than half — 46 percent — were willing to sacrifice open space for new development, and just 30 percent said they would support new housing that brought more people onto local roads and transit systems, making their commutes worse.

There is also a reason that 46% want to leave the bay area.

 

[Greenman]

The people want more density generally.

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/02/11/bay-area-residents-want-more-housing-but/



There is also a reason that 46% want to leave the bay area.

I'm part of that 46% that want to leave. It's simply to crowded here. The roads are becoming impassable, and some city's have deferred maintenance to the point that many of their streets can't be repaired, they have to be replaced. They also keep talking about repealing prop 13. That would cost me $13,000 a year.

 

[realibrad]

I'm part of that 46% that want to leave. It's simply to crowded here. The roads are becoming impassable, and some city's have deferred maintenance to the point that many of their streets can't be repaired, they have to be replaced. They also keep talking about repealing prop 13. That would cost me $13,000 a year.

In most large cities, you can do things other than drive because of density.

 

[Paladin3]

If you want to take the biggest bite out of chronic homelessness, then you need mental health along with it.

There is plenty for the government to do here and it will end up costing everyone less than just leaving them be.

Once we accept that drug and alcohol addiction is a health problem rather than a criminal problem then addressing both the physical and mental aspects would be automatic.

 

[Zorba]

So nobody is allowed to buy investment properties? That seems like a bad idea.

The point is, when you try and shape supply you mess with the market. If people want to live there, they are willing to compete. So, supply will always be limited.

The people with money will be willing to spend the money to live there. People will then try and build housing for those people. The poor simply cannot compete and often people try to make ways for them to and it makes things worse. Not everyone should be able to live wherever they want. Sometimes you have to live within your means.

A big part of the problem is that a handful of cities are taking far more than their share of growth. I have no idea how you fix it, besides through supply and demand, but when a city can't effectively hold more people, why continue to build more industry? Seems like the real fix would be to make companies build their offices/factories in other metros that have room to grow.

There also needs to be policies in place that prevent buying investment properties that sit empty or used to as hotels like AirBnB.

 

[realibrad]

A big part of the problem is that a handful of cities are taking far more than their share of growth. I have no idea how you fix it, besides through supply and demand, but when a city can't effectively hold more people, why continue to build more industry? Seems like the real fix would be to make companies build their offices/factories in other metros that have room to grow.

There also needs to be policies in place that prevent buying investment properties that sit empty or used to as hotels like AirBnB.

Their fair share of growth? How did you come to that idea?

 

[K1052]

A big part of the problem is that a handful of cities are taking far more than their share of growth. I have no idea how you fix it, besides through supply and demand, but when a city can't effectively hold more people, why continue to build more industry? Seems like the real fix would be to make companies build their offices/factories in other metros that have room to grow.

Our cities can effectively hold a LOT more people if we let them. Instead a minority of locals has been allowed to trigger a housing crisis by restricting supply.