The Constitutional right to a job.

[digitalsm]

If you want a farking job there plenty out there. Its called change your fvcking atitude, you are not to good for unskilled labor. You think this job market is bad? Wake the fvck up its no where near as bad as some of you make it out to be. The 70s were worse, most of the 80s were too. Is it like the dot.com boom when dumbasses were in control of the asylum, no and dont ever expect it to. The tech boom never should have happened, companies with no buisness plans that lose millions should not exsist. Thats what the tech boom was, 1000s of companies that never made a dime, and blew through millions or hundreds of million. If you have a CS degree or EE/ME/CE degree and cant find a job, well its your fault you didnt intern and get real world experiance like it was heavily suggest by the college. I dont know of a single person that interned that doesnt have a job. If you have zero real world experiance dont expect to get a good paying job, now or never again. You must have experiance for a company to go out on a limb and give you good money.

There are jobs out there, people atitudes just need to change.

And if a job getting paid $6-8 doesnt support your family of 8, well damn it you are farking stupid to have 8 kids without anyway to provide for them.

 

[nickPOWERZ]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

The government's job is to insure there are 960 jobs available that pay a livable wage.

I agree. I wouldn't necessarily put a number to it, or a guarentee by it, but it is one of the purposes of government to facilitate the economy. And 4% is a good goal.

My beef is with a specific guarentee that grants everyperson a job regardless of anything. Especially if these jobs would be from the public sector.

This also correlates to the "promote the general welfare" found in the preamble.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: rjain
LunarRay, I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Are you actually advocating legislation that forces some people to pay for jobs they don't want done or jobs that can be done better and cheaper by others? We could adopt the Indian model of having all the "unemployed" people employed in made-up jobs instead of welfare, but that's open to abuse as well. Still, it could provide some people a taste of being rewarded for what they do and maybe they'll get greedy and start giving back to society. (Yes, I mean that exactly as I typed it.)

Not hardly. I am saying the economy ought to be in such a state that anyone wanting work may find it. Not a guaranteed job in the field they were trained in but a job in some field that provides a living. For instance; if we completely isolated we would have more jobs available than workers to fill them. The best at a particular job should have it. There would be no able body on welfare.
The US is the largest consumer of goods and services (at my last reading) in the world. We'd still have to import to meet our needs. This assumes everyone at work. We'd pay down the debt and live in a pretty good manner, I think. I advocate baby step move in that direction and buy american made and owned goods and services. At the end of the day, prices will rise and that is ok. Good monetary policy can check this.

 

[Moonbeam]

I can't wait to hear what the robots say: 'Can't get a job you worthless organic? Evolve." So much arrogance, so much shamefull pride. "I can get a job, why can't you." What goes around comes around. Welcome to your heartless world. Did you but know it, all this disgusting pride comes from feeling like the worst in the world. You are the emotionally unemployed, those living without heart. When you look at the unemployed you're looking at people with dignity compaired to you.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: nickPOWERZ

Originally posted by: LunarRay

The government's job is to insure there are 960 jobs available that pay a livable wage.

I agree. I wouldn't necessarily put a number to it, or a guarentee by it, but it is one of the purposes of government to facilitate the economy. And 4% is a good goal.

My beef is with a specific guarentee that grants everyperson a job regardless of anything. Especially if these jobs would be from the public sector.

This also correlates to the "promote the general welfare" found in the preamble.

The best way to create jobs in the US is to return the manufacturing base to the US and support that move by buying American made by American owned companies. We are busy bribing the world to do our bidding by supporting them in welfare like payments.. all the while letting our country men waste away and say to them "there are lots of jobs ... go find one, lazy...geesh" Lets start saying that to the Chinese and Koreans and Japanese and Indians and on and on.. let our folks starve for some global power policy just don't sit well when our Constitution (IMO) demands much more for the citizen..

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: JellyBaby
Morphing employment from a voluntary contract between worker and employer into a mandatory obligation for an emplorer is a gross violation of the later's liberty. Or do the pro-"right" to a job folk believe it's government's obligation to create the actual positions to put people to work? If so, I have some questions:

- who assigns people to their jobs?
- how much is it going to cost taxpayers?
- what happens when with bad employees? If a job is a right you can't fire bad employees because you can't take a right away.
- what happens to private businesses who have to compete to survive and who must now compete ostensibly, with government?
- if a person is assigned their job by, what if they want a different one? Do they need permission from their Government Minder?
- is it a basal job only? May I seek a job in the private sector if I really want to?

Not suggesting this at all... Suggesting an economy where there are as many jobs at a livable wage for as many workers that exist. If an Ee is worthless fire him and let him flip hamburges but at a reasonable wage. If this Ee won't work he won't eat... but don't create a situation where he can't eat. There are many fine talented folks out of work. Why is this so. What is the answer. JOBS.

 

[Wheezer]

God another arrogant butt-head know-nothing fool. This drivel rolls of Republican tongues like a looped tape machine. I hope some day you're on the other end of your bull sh!t. How do we breed such pigs? Did it ever occur to you that the potential to wind up a certain way is not always the worst of options, or that secondary and additional measures can be explored to keep that from happening. Get out of your box. You're trapped like a ditto head.

Funny Moon, you appear to be a person of understanding, compassion and also one who is the type to preach understanding of fellow man but how ironic that when faced with undeniable fact as I have stated you resort to the name calling and stooping to low child like behavior which you project yourself as being above.

Off the subject but let me point out it is typical of liberal people like yourself when faced with overwhelming facts that are contrary to what you percieve to be true you lash out like a cornered badger....it never fails. It also goes to show how presumptious you are in how and what you think of people...if you will continue to read.


Back to the subject at hand:

There is a perfect example of what I am saying to be true right in front our faces....the welfare system. You cannot disagree (well you can but you would be a fool to do so) that there is rampant abuse of the system is there not? I am quite sure that when it was concieved that the idea that people would abuse it as they do was unimaginable. It was designed so that people would have an opportunity to make something of themselves, at the time we lived in a time when pride, and self reliance actually meant something. Now as it has been for many years it is a way out, it is free money for people so that they get a guranteed source of food, housing and sometimes $$. Then ontop of that they go out find a job under the table and make $$ off the IRS radar. I know that to be true I have seen it in action.


Now does that mean that ALL who are on welfare are cheating the system and abusing it? Certainly not but those that do blemish the ones who do truley need it, and who am I to decide who gets it and who does not? nobody. But then again who are you? Nobody.

The idea that making the goverment responsible to provide jobs for people who cannot for what ever reason either they are lazy, unskilled, or just down on thier luck is a very slippery slope that we should not attempt to go down.

As for the unemployment comment, I have been there and done that. I have worked in three places all starting at the bottom and working my way up. The last two closed after I had 3 years in one and 2 in another...in between I worked crap jobs making $3-$5 below what I was at the previous employer. I worked resturant, carryouts and gas stations to pay the bills in between and not once did I feel that the goverment should provide me with anything.

My current place of employment I been at for the last 14 years and I Know that given this economy that I could be the next one at any time that is why I am continuously learning something new to make myself more valuable to the company...is it a gurantee? hell no but if it is a choice between me and one of my co-workers who only cares about drawing a check, then sorry about his luck.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

God another arrogant butt-head know-nothing fool. This drivel rolls of Republican tongues like a looped tape machine. I hope some day you're on the other end of your bull sh!t. How do we breed such pigs? Did it ever occur to you that the potential to wind up a certain way is not always the worst of options, or that secondary and additional measures can be explored to keep that from happening. Get out of your box. You're trapped like a ditto head.

Funny Moon, you appear to be a person of understanding, compassion and also one who is the type to preach understanding of fellow man but how ironic that when faced with undeniable fact as I have stated you resort to the name calling and stooping to low child like behavior which you project yourself as being above.

Off the subject but let me point out it is typical of liberal people like yourself when faced with overwhelming facts that are contrary to what you percieve to be true you lash out like a cornered badger....it never fails. It also goes to show how presumptious you are in how and what you think of people...if you will continue to read.


Back to the subject at hand:

There is a perfect example of what I am saying to be true right in front our faces....the welfare system. You cannot disagree (well you can but you would be a fool to do so) that there is rampant abuse of the system is there not? I am quite sure that when it was concieved that the idea that people would abuse it as they do was unimaginable. It was designed so that people would have an opportunity to make something of themselves, at the time we lived in a time when pride, and self reliance actually meant something. Now as it has been for many years it is a way out, it is free money for people so that they get a guranteed source of food, housing and sometimes $$. Then ontop of that they go out find a job under the table and make $$ off the IRS radar. I know that to be true I have seen it in action.


Now does that mean that ALL who are on welfare are cheating the system and abusing it? Certainly not but those that do blemish the ones who do truley need it, and who am I to decide who gets it and who does not? nobody. But then again who are you? Nobody.

The idea that making the goverment responsible to provide jobs for people who cannot for what ever reason either they are lazy, unskilled, or just down on thier luck is a very slippery slope that we should not attempt to go down.

As for the unemployment comment, I have been there and done that. I have worked in three places all starting at the bottom and working my way up. The last two closed after I had 3 years in one and 2 in another...in between I worked crap jobs making $3-$5 below what I was at the previous employer. I worked resturant, carryouts and gas stations to pay the bills in between and not once did I feel that the goverment should provide me with anything.

My current place of employment I been at for the last 14 years and I Know that given this economy that I could be the next one at any time that is why I am continuously learning something new to make myself more valuable to the company...is it a gurantee? hell no but if it is a choice between me and one of my co-workers who only cares about drawing a check, then sorry about his luck.

:beer:

I've skimmed this thread since I posted before(and intend on fully reading it) but it doesn't appear that anyone has stated HOW they plan on "guaranteeing" and/or paying for everyone to be employed. Since when is it the FEDERAL gov't job to have an active role in my daily affairs? With all the screaming and ranting about the big evil Federal Gov't are you willing to give them direct control of your income? I would really like some comments on this and about my previous post - nothing much seems to have been said about it.

CkG

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I can't wait to hear what the robots say: 'Can't get a job you worthless organic? Evolve." So much arrogance, so much shamefull pride. "I can get a job, why can't you." What goes around comes around. Welcome to your heartless world. Did you but know it, all this disgusting pride comes from feeling like the worst in the world. You are the emotionally unemployed, those living without heart. When you look at the unemployed you're looking at people with dignity compaired to you.

I personally know someone who went unemployed. He got real comfortable, slept in some meetings. Made some people angry.

So he went on a job search, got on as a temp. He was let go after two weeks. Apparently he walked out in a middle of a meeting, saying "my work hours are 7-4". Now he can't find a job. Time for the government to take over!!

I feel for the guy, and his family, but I'm not going to subsidize his attitude with my tax dollars. You can't have shame, without pride. Pride is what makes the shameful work harder.

Workers of the world, unite! You aren't finding many lemmings on this one. If there is a job out there for posting worthless leftist viewpoints to a forum 8 hours a day, though, then you've got my letter of reccomendation, but not my tax dollars.

I wonder what your views are on education? Let me guess, outcome based? No sense in bruising those fragile little egos so young, if we can provide them all a nice state factory to work in.

 

[LunarRay]

Cad,
In my 5:10 pm today post I made a suggestion on how to create the jobs. But, that is not the issue yet. First, the folks all have to agree that there is an inherent right to a job. If this is true then the folks positioned to do things like this could set upon an Agenda to accomplish it.
Without the reason to do what should be obvious we and our little puppets in DC will continue to ensnare themselves in the very rope designed to control them..

 

[Moonbeam]

I skimmed your post Caddy but didn't catch enough of to comment. Some vague impression you didn't know what you were talking about cause you hadn't read the post.
---------
-----------
Funny Moon, you appear to be a person of understanding, compassion and also one who is the type to preach understanding of fellow man but how ironic that when faced with undeniable fact as I have stated you resort to the name calling and stooping to low child like behavior which you project yourself as being above.
--------------
Funny how appearances can be deceiving; sometimes we think we know what we see. Sometimes we actually imagine we know what compassion is.
-----------------------
Off the subject but let me point out it is typical of liberal people like yourself when faced with overwhelming facts that are contrary to what you percieve to be true you lash out like a cornered badger....it never fails. It also goes to show how presumptious you are in how and what you think of people...if you will continue to read.
-----------------
More like off the mark. I'm not a liberal, I'm from a Third Way, and you wouldn't know facts, even underwhelming ones, if they bit you in the ass. It never fails that you see mechanically. It also goes to show how presumptuous you are in how ans what you think of people. Hehe. Oh man, talk about upside down.
--------------------
Back to the subject at hand:

There is a perfect example of what I am saying to be true right in front our faces....the welfare system. You cannot disagree (well you can but you would be a fool to do so) that there is rampant abuse of the system is there not?
-------------------------
Yes has nothing to do with this issue.
-------------------------
I am quite sure that when it was concieved that the idea that people would abuse it as they do was unimaginable.
----------------------------------
If you knew how people feel about themselves you could have predicted it just as I did.
---------------------------------
It was designed so that people would have an opportunity to make something of themselves, at the time we lived in a time when pride, and self reliance actually meant something.
-------------------------------
You are dreaming. That disappeared thousands of years ago with rare exceptions. What you call pride is self flattery and self congratulatory boobery.
------------------------------
Now as it has been for many years it is a way out, it is free money for people so that they get a guranteed source of food, housing and sometimes $$. Then ontop of that they go out find a job under the table and make $$ off the IRS radar. I know that to be true I have seen it in action.
-----------------------------
It's true of you. You're spoiled rotten. The Indians and Chinese would have you for lunch. In fact they will, soon.
------------------------------
Now does that mean that ALL who are on welfare are cheating the system and abusing it? Certainly not but those that do blemish the ones who do truley need it, and who am I to decide who gets it and who does not? nobody. But then again who are you? Nobody.
---------------------------
Speak for yourself. You're no nobody. You're chuck full of yourself.
---------------------------------
The idea that making the goverment responsible to provide jobs for people who cannot for what ever reason either they are lazy, unskilled, or just down on thier luck is a very slippery slope that we should not attempt to go down.
----------------------------
Says who, some lazy, unskilled or just down on their luck guy like you?
---------------------------------------
As for the unemployment comment, I have been there and done that. I have worked in three places all starting at the bottom and working my way up. The last two closed after I had 3 years in one and 2 in another...in between I worked crap jobs making $3-$5 below what I was at the previous employer. I worked resturant, carryouts and gas stations to pay the bills in between and not once did I feel that the goverment should provide me with anything.
---------------------------
Sorry to hear that. In my world you would have gotten lots of help. We'd have examined you to see what you're good for and pushed you to follow your hearts desire.
------------------------
My current place of employment I been at for the last 14 years and I Know that given this economy that I could be the next one at any time that is why I am continuously learning something new to make myself more valuable to the company...is it a gurantee? hell no but if it is a choice between me and one of my co-workers who only cares about drawing a check, then sorry about his luck.
---------------------
Your blow jobs are as good as hers?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I skimmed your post Caddy but didn't catch enough of to comment. Some vague impression you didn't know what you were talking about cause you hadn't read the post.
---------

I think your reading comprehension needs work. The part I skimmed was AFTER my first post and I was specifically looking for ANSWERS to what I posted originally - of which I found none. Luny gave a nice vague answer(trying to keep jobs here in the US) of which I will agree but that doesn't solve the whole problem. There is a reason they left...right? Now what is that problem? I'm willing to bet that it is because of all the meddling and crap that our gov't does in it's attempts at regulating and taxing our companies. The only way you are going to keep companies here is to make it profitable for them to stay here. And then if they stayed here because the gov't did something for them - you'd all be screaming about subsidizing corporate america. The way I look at it - you people will never be happy - you bitch and whine about unemployed people and detest profit driven companies - yet you whine and moan about not reaping the benefits when a company that is no longer profitable(stocks, jobs, and etc).

I am waiting though moony - how exactly are YOU planning to allow everyone to have a job? Jobs mean there is a demand for that service/position. I don't think more gov't subsidies is the answer - do you? That is about the only way we can truly have "full" employment in the world environment we live in today. I wish to shrink our gov'ts involvement in my life - I guess you are on the other side of such things though.

CkG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Cad,
In my 5:10 pm today post I made a suggestion on how to create the jobs. But, that is not the issue yet. First, the folks all have to agree that there is an inherent right to a job. If this is true then the folks positioned to do things like this could set upon an Agenda to accomplish it.
Without the reason to do what should be obvious we and our little puppets in DC will continue to ensnare themselves in the very rope designed to control them..

Your 7:10 post(real time) has little real effect on what moony seems to be proposing. Keeping "American" jobs here isn't really an answer if those jobs staying here means that the company isn't profitable as the company, if forced to stay here, would go belly-up or raise prices which makes it uncompetitive - which I guess would also mean it goes bankrupt. And no - subsidizing markets isn't the answer - look at the mess the Agriculture market is - it has been heavily subsidized for years and it still can't stand on it's own and now is totally dependant on our gov't to survive. Is that what we want? total dependence on our gov't? Do we need to dig up the old "company town" references? Buy at the "gov't" store, buy the gov'ts food, buy the gov'ts xxx? No - we need economic markets that are freer from gov't control(not uncontrolled however) - NOT totally controlled as would need to be the case if we wished for moony's "jobs for everyone" nonsense.

But again - I'm for a freer market and believe in working and EARNING what I make - not accepting a handout from the gov't(again - there are places for such things but NOT as "jobs")
Edit - oh and there is NO constitutional right to a job. Just because you exist does not mean that you can and will "work" or that someone has an opening that you are qualified for.

CkG

 

[Wheezer]

Funny Moon, you appear to be a person of understanding, compassion and also one who is the type to preach understanding of fellow man but how ironic that when faced with undeniable fact as I have stated you resort to the name calling and stooping to low child like behavior which you project yourself as being above.
--------------
Funny how appearances can be deceiving; sometimes we think we know what we see. Sometimes we actually imagine we know what compassion is.

you see moon you response was nothing but insults...you are grasping at straws.

Half your responses are nothing.

Now does that mean that ALL who are on welfare are cheating the system and abusing it? Certainly not but those that do blemish the ones who do truley need it, and who am I to decide who gets it and who does not? nobody. But then again who are you? Nobody.
---------------------------
Speak for yourself. You're no nobody. You're chuck full of yourself.

how so?

Now as it has been for many years it is a way out, it is free money for people so that they get a guranteed source of food, housing and sometimes $$. Then ontop of that they go out find a job under the table and make $$ off the IRS radar. I know that to be true I have seen it in action.
-----------------------------
It's true of you. You're spoiled rotten. The Indians and Chinese would have you for lunch. In fact they will, soon.

again I ask how so? I have worked for everything I have.

The idea that making the goverment responsible to provide jobs for people who cannot for what ever reason either they are lazy, unskilled, or just down on thier luck is a very slippery slope that we should not attempt to go down.
----------------------------
Says who, some lazy, unskilled or just down on their luck guy like you?

I am none of the above thank you. I may not be the richest person in the world but again I have worked hard to earn the things I do have and the things I enjoy. I do not feel the goverment owes me anything, except maybe reducing my income tax a bit.

Now does that mean that ALL who are on welfare are cheating the system and abusing it? Certainly not but those that do blemish the ones who do truley need it, and who am I to decide who gets it and who does not? nobody. But then again who are you? Nobody.
---------------------------
Speak for yourself. You're no nobody. You're chuck full of yourself.

So moonbeam who are you? I mean your posts reflect that of someone who percieves himself/herself as someone who is this great critical thinker. You pride yourself as thinking outside the box. Anyone who disagrees with you is smite down with your quick wit and your mighty keyboard...wow.

me? I am your average joe just trying to make a buck and get by with the cards life deals me on an everyday basis. enjoying reading your posts the same way I do the sunday comics.

As for the unemployment comment, I have been there and done that. I have worked in three places all starting at the bottom and working my way up. The last two closed after I had 3 years in one and 2 in another...in between I worked crap jobs making $3-$5 below what I was at the previous employer. I worked resturant, carryouts and gas stations to pay the bills in between and not once did I feel that the goverment should provide me with anything.
---------------------------
Sorry to hear that. In my world you would have gotten lots of help. We'd have examined you to see what you're good for and pushed you to follow your hearts desire.

No I don't think so. If I had a choice between starving until I found a job on my own or having someone like you helping me...I'd rather starve than ever think that I would owe someone like you anything.

My current place of employment I been at for the last 14 years and I Know that given this economy that I could be the next one at any time that is why I am continuously learning something new to make myself more valuable to the company...is it a gurantee? hell no but if it is a choice between me and one of my co-workers who only cares about drawing a check, then sorry about his luck.
---------------------
Your blow jobs are as good as hers?

who your mothers? I am sure some of the truckers on our great highways and bi-ways have some stories you tell of the great "mother moonbeam" and that nice round mouth of hers though.



You had what you "thought" might be a great idea....and in your utopia things might just work out.

You never did respond to one of my questions though....if you are that concerned about your fellow man finding jobs and making sure that they are provided with one, why not put that flawed but obviously somwhat thinking mind to work and create a company and employ some people?

Or do you prefer to sneak out at night and put bundles of cash on the doorsteps of the unemployed so that you can feel good about yourself?

 

[LunarRay]

Wheezer,
The point is not that you didn't work hard for what you have, given most folks do. The point as I see it is; wouldn't it be nice if everyone could work hard to have stuff too. I think it is American to be able to get out what you put into something. The great depression had many folks out of work and that was deemed a disaster. The opposite might be to have no folks out of work and a non disaster. The fact is there are less jobs than people looking for work. (a job that pays a living wage in the local of the person) The point is that the Constitution was adopted with a philosophy in mind. Part of that philosophy was domestic tranquility and the general welfare of the people. If the cornerstone of this, as you have indicated by your hard work to acquire the things that provide tranquility and provide for you and yours general welfare, is not employment then what might it be? If we live in a 'dog eat dog' nation where we care only for the survivors of poor economic times and not the folks swimming to stay afloat and refer to them as lazy or I got mine and you'd have yours if you were better at what you do than you were.. we are doomed to complete collapse. I think.
We have depleted the might of this nation by bribing other nations with our wealth by helping them destroy the strength that enabled the bribing to start with. We call it open market economy... I call it Corporate Globalization for power and profit.. equalize the world and profit and control it.. No more powerful USA just another bunch of land and folks doing their best to rid the competition to that job. And when the job is had the pay is reduced because we have no power but one needs to be tranquil and needs to see to the general welfare of those important in our life so we take it and smile while we gloat at those who are not so fortunate or aggressive. IMO

 

[Zebo]

I wish they had'nt repealed the homestead act in 1973. This gave land and opportunity or those who were willing. Up to 180 acres after 10 years if you were willing to improve it. Lots of small farms and small fortunes was made from these lands from poor immigrants with nothing but blood sweat and tears.

Overall I think the government should not be guarnteeing jobs but foster an enviroment where they are plentiful and fair on the employees. We would have full employment tomorrow if we stopped all ships comming into US docks with cheep slave labor goods abroad and make it illegal to export funds from US banks to offshore.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Funny Moon, you appear to be a person of understanding, compassion and also one who is the type to preach understanding of fellow man but how ironic that when faced with undeniable fact as I have stated you resort to the name calling and stooping to low child like behavior which you project yourself as being above.
--------------
Funny how appearances can be deceiving; sometimes we think we know what we see. Sometimes we actually imagine we know what compassion is.

you see moon you response was nothing but insults...you are grasping at straws.
-------------------------------------------
Why do you take information as an insult. I simply told the truth. Maybe you feel bad and hear your feelings in me.
-------------------------------
Half your responses are nothing.
------------------------------------
I pretty much responded in kind

Now does that mean that ALL who are on welfare are cheating the system and abusing it? Certainly not but those that do blemish the ones who do truly need it, and who am I to decide who gets it and who does not? nobody. But then again who are you? Nobody.
---------------------------
Speak for yourself. You're no nobody. You're chuck full of yourself.

how so?
-------------------------
You think you know all this stuff that you say.
------------------------------

Now as it has been for many years it is a way out, it is free money for people so that they get a guaranteed source of food, housing and sometimes $$. Then on top of that they go out find a job under the table and make $$ off the IRS radar. I know that to be true I have seen it in action.
-----------------------------
It's true of you. You're spoiled rotten. The Indians and Chinese would have you for lunch. In fact they will, soon.

again I ask how so? I have worked for everything I have.
--------------------------------
You have worked among people who don't know the meaning of work.
------------------------------

The idea that making the government responsible to provide jobs for people who cannot for what ever reason either they are lazy, unskilled, or just down on their luck is a very slippery slope that we should not attempt to go down.
----------------------------
Says who, some lazy, unskilled or just down on their luck guy like you?

I am none of the above thank you. I may not be the richest person in the world but again I have worked hard to earn the things I do have and the things I enjoy. I do not feel the government owes me anything, except maybe reducing my income tax a bit.
---------------------
You're none of the above but all those other people are. Nah, you recognize them somehow.

Now does that mean that ALL who are on welfare are cheating the system and abusing it? Certainly not but those that do blemish the ones who do truly need it, and who am I to decide who gets it and who does not? nobody. But then again who are you? Nobody.
---------------------------
Speak for yourself. You're no nobody. You're chuck full of yourself.

So moonbeam who are you? I mean your posts reflect that of someone who perceives himself/herself as someone who is this great critical thinker. You pride yourself as thinking outside the box. Anyone who disagrees with you is smite down with your quick wit and your mighty keyboard...wow.
-------------------
Truth does that huh. I thought you would appreciate exposure to the same arrogant contempt that you have for those who can't find work to do.
--------------------------
me? I am your average Joe just trying to make a buck and get by with the cards life deals me on an everyday basis. enjoying reading your posts the same way I do the Sunday comics.
--------------------------------
To me you're the same average Joe who can wind up in the sewer. If it happens to you you'll remember how you cared.
-----------------------

As for the unemployment comment, I have been there and done that. I have worked in three places all starting at the bottom and working my way up. The last two closed after I had 3 years in one and 2 in another...in between I worked crap jobs making $3-$5 below what I was at the previous employer. I worked restaurant, carryouts and gas stations to pay the bills in between and not once did I feel that the government should provide me with anything.
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Sorry to hear that. In my world you would have gotten lots of help. We'd have examined you to see what you're good for and pushed you to follow your hearts desire.

No I don't think so. If I had a choice between starving until I found a job on my own or having someone like you helping me...I'd rather starve than ever think that I would owe someone like you anything.
---------------------------------
Clearly you know nothing about starving. I guess you'd starve your kids too. My my, such arrogant pride.
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My current place of employment I been at for the last 14 years and I Know that given this economy that I could be the next one at any time that is why I am continuously learning something new to make myself more valuable to the company...is it a guarantee? hell no but if it is a choice between me and one of my co-workers who only cares about drawing a check, then sorry about his luck.
---------------------
Your blow jobs are as good as hers?

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who your mothers? I am sure some of the truckers on our great highways and bi-ways have some stories you tell of the great "mother moonbeam" and that nice round mouth of hers though.
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Hehe, there wasn't much to your facade. You've made me so mad I'm going to correct your spelling.



You had what you "thought" might be a great idea....and in your utopia things might just work out.

You never did respond to one of my questions though....if you are that concerned about your fellow man finding jobs and making sure that they are provided with one, why not put that flawed but obviously somewhat thinking mind to work and create a company and employ some people?

Or do you prefer to sneak out at night and put bundles of cash on the doorsteps of the unemployed so that you can feel good about yourself?

 

[Wheezer]

You have worked among people who don't know the meaning of work

Please enlighten me as to whom you feel actually "knows" the meaning of work. Then please tell me what it is you do for a living and how that compares to the people you claim to "know" about work.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

You have worked among people who don't know the meaning of work

Please enlighten me as to whom you feel actually "knows" the meaning of work. Then please tell me what it is you do for a living and how that compares to the people you claim to "know" about work.

Rule one on me enlightening you is that you don't control the questions. We can begin with these instead. Why do you want to know? What is the feeling, the intent, behind these questions? What is it that I have provoked in you?

 

[Wheezer]

Rule one on me enlightening you is that you don't control the questions. We can begin with these instead. Why do you want to know?

Well moon it seems that you are not think of yourself as this marvelous critical thinker you also seem to have control issues. You are also very good at avoiding issues.

What is the feeling, the intent, behind these questions?

well you seem think that you have this great idea, but yet have no solutions. All you do state that it should be everyopne constitutional right to a job yet the complications that go along with that are staggering. When people disagree and state why they disagree your only recourse it seems is to personally attack them. Funny comming from someone who "projects" the image of tolerance and underestanding.

What is it that I have provoked in you?

um well yea...I mean look at the responses you gave.

More like off the mark. I'm not a liberal, I'm from a Third Way, and you wouldn't know facts, even underwhelming ones, if they bit you in the ass.

It's true of you. You're spoiled rotten.

Speak for yourself. You're no nobody. You're chuck full of yourself.

Says who, some lazy, unskilled or just down on their luck guy like you?

Your blow jobs are as good as hers?

Those are not responses to the issues I brought up. They are insults, yet having having read your responses to people in the past and past postings and your sig, you will probably just play it off as some coy responses that were designed to provoke the response you got.

In reality you were responding in the the way you feel. Issues contrary what you belive to be true were brought up and you had no way to deal with it other than the responses you gave.

so you failed to answer the questions I proposed:

if you are that concerned about your fellow man finding jobs and making sure that they are provided with one, why not put that flawed but obviously somwhat thinking mind to work and create a company and employ some people?

please tell me what it is you do for a living and how that compares to the people you claim to "know" about work.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Rule one on me enlightening you is that you don't control the questions. We can begin with these instead. Why do you want to know?

Well moon it seems that you are not think of yourself as this marvelous critical thinker you also seem to have control issues. You are also very good at avoiding issues.

What is the feeling, the intent, behind these questions?

well you seem think that you have this great idea, but yet have no solutions. All you do state that it should be everyopne constitutional right to a job yet the complications that go along with that are staggering. When people disagree and state why they disagree your only recourse it seems is to personally attack them. Funny comming from someone who "projects" the image of tolerance and underestanding.

What is it that I have provoked in you?

um well yea...I mean look at the responses you gave.

More like off the mark. I'm not a liberal, I'm from a Third Way, and you wouldn't know facts, even underwhelming ones, if they bit you in the ass.

It's true of you. You're spoiled rotten.

Speak for yourself. You're no nobody. You're chuck full of yourself.

Says who, some lazy, unskilled or just down on their luck guy like you?

Your blow jobs are as good as hers?

Those are not responses to the issues I brought up. They are insults, yet having having read your responses to people in the past and past postings and your sig, you will probably just play it off as some coy responses that were designed to provoke the response you got.

In reality you were responding in the the way you feel. Issues contrary what you belive to be true were brought up and you had no way to deal with it other than the responses you gave.

so you failed to answer the questions I proposed:

if you are that concerned about your fellow man finding jobs and making sure that they are provided with one, why not put that flawed but obviously somwhat thinking mind to work and create a company and employ some people?

please tell me what it is you do for a living and how that compares to the people you claim to "know" about work.

:beer: You have passed the Moonbeam BS test Now you have a choice - either to start ignoring it by just accepting that will continue to happen or you can keep banking your head up against a wall.

CkG

 

[Moonbeam]

How about the crack about my mother?

All those remarks I made to you you took as insults, but what if they were just statements of fact without any intent at personal attack. How do you want to be told you have a pimple on your nose and you want your best picture taken? And even if you have trouble seeing the connections, the stuff I said could possible be true. Do you think what you said about my Mom is? Can you see that the person doing the insulting is you?

You want a factual argument, a case to be made from the law. I see that how people see is based on what they bring to the table. If you haven't even begun to look at yourself and are unaware of how your unconscious works, the first step to learning is there. You want to learn. I think we need to learn how to learn. We can't put the cart before the horse. Oh we can, but what's the use. I took this subject matter from a Forum Labor Day program on KQED. If you really want to hear an alternative and intelligent discussion of the issue you can listen here. Click on Mon, September 1, 2003 -- 9:00am John Denvir

 

[LunarRay]

Question: Is there a Constitutional Right to employment for any individual who wants to work?

If your response is: Well how are you gonna make that work? You've not answered the question. To make your response conditional on the methods is not dealing with the question either. If you don't support it you won't support the means of achieving it either. That is human nature. One will find every little possible thing that can be problematic and focus on that. Assume that it can be done and done without too much problem for the US Citizen in the short term and nothing but benefits in the long term.
Then answer the question. Well... do you?

 

[Moonbeam]

You have passed the Moonbeam BS test Now you have a choice - either to start ignoring it by just accepting that will continue to happen or you can keep banking your head up against a wall.
-----------------------------------------
If you can't find a wall Caddy is wall erzatz.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Question: Is there a Constitutional Right to employment for any individual who wants to work?

If your response is: Well how are you gonna make that work? You've not answered the question. To make your response conditional on the methods is not dealing with the question either. If you don't support it you won't support the means of achieving it either. That is human nature. One will find every little possible thing that can be problematic and focus on that. Assume that it can be done and done without too much problem for the US Citizen in the short term and nothing but benefits in the long term.
Then answer the question. Well... do you?

I think that most that question it are stating by their questioning an implied "NO" to there being a Constitutional right to a job. But you already knew that.

The simple answer the question is - NO
The complex answer to the question is - NO
No way - No how.

Moony - why would he use me as an ersatz wall, when you are right here? You are by far the best wall - the wall all us wanna-be walls look up to.

CkG