The Chevy Volt is just another hybrid?

[LTC8K6]

MT didn't try to run the tank dry they just drove it about for 300 miles or roughly a tank

I'd suspect the mileage to start to drop off above the 300 miles they drove, however I rarely drive 300 miles in a day and would charge up in the meantime, typical day for me is 40 miles furthest typical is 240 miles

The Volt either has about half the gas tank that's been reported, or much greater total range than has been reported since we heard of the gas tank downsizing way back when.

Some time ago it was big news that GM had changed the total range from 600
miles down to under 400 miles due to a necessary reduction in fuel tank size and a judgement call that 400 total miles was plenty of range anyway.

Since then, the range has pretty much always been given as around 40 + 300.

It certainly wouldn't hurt it any if it did indeed have much greater range. :biggrin:

 

[MikeMike]

The Volt either has about half the gas tank that's been reported, or much greater total range than has been reported since we heard of the gas tank downsizing way back when.

Some time ago it was big news that GM had changed the total range from 600
miles down to under 400 miles due to a necessary reduction in fuel tank size and a judgement call that 400 total miles was plenty of range anyway.

Since then, the range has pretty much always been given as around 40 + 300.

It certainly wouldn't hurt it any if it did indeed have much greater range. :biggrin:

Just an fyi, MT didnt charge this car only once during those 300 miles, i am pretty sure they charged it every night.

 

[Bignate603]

Just an fyi, MT didnt charge this car only once during those 300 miles, i am pretty sure they charged it every night.

That's what I gathered from the article. They just used the car like anyone normally would, driving where ever they needed to during the day and plugged it in at night.

The point wasn't to show what the mileage was after the battery ran out, it was to show how much gas you would burn in the kind of driving and the frequency of charging that a typical user would do with the car.

 

[desy]

So it seems
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/motor-trend-reveals-the-secret-to-getting-127-mpg-in-chevy-volt/

 

[PricklyPete]

So it seems
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/motor-trend-reveals-the-secret-to-getting-127-mpg-in-chevy-volt/

I'm still not seeing a problem with this. They used the car like it is supposed to be used, not attempting to max out gas mileage...just driving it...and they got 127 mpg after 4 days with it and 299 miles driven. Sure, a trip across the country is not going to yield these numbers...you may *only* get 35mpg for that rare time you're taking a long trip...but for every day numbers, you're likely going to se 127mpg or better. This still seems fantastic to me.

 

[LTC8K6]

They don't tell us whether the battery was depleted by the electric only mileage. We see 40 miles one time, and 30 miles another time, but was that the electric limit or not?

 

[sdifox]

I'm still not seeing a problem with this. They used the car like it is supposed to be used, not attempting to max out gas mileage...just driving it...and they got 127 mpg after 4 days with it and 299 miles driven. Sure, a trip across the country is not going to yield these numbers...you may *only* get 35mpg for that rare time you're taking a long trip...but for every day numbers, you're likely going to se 127mpg or better. This still seems fantastic to me.

Following that argument the LEAF is infinite miles per gallon...

 

[Pariah]

They don't tell us whether the battery was depleted by the electric only mileage. We see 40 miles one time, and 30 miles another time, but was that the electric limit or not?

They don't have to. Just look at the chart. If the trip distance exceeds the pure electric miles then the batteries were depleted. If it doesn't, then the batteries had charge left.

I don't get what TTAC is complaining about. What are they accusing MT of doing? Nothing looks unusual about how MT tested the car, and the numbers they generated look legit for the driving pattern they had.

 

[desy]

TTAC is not a fan of the Volt and not of GM and MT so its more misdirected word smithing than of MT content IMO

 

[PricklyPete]

Following that argument the LEAF is infinite miles per gallon...

Agreed...it is. It's infinite mpg with an interesting logistics dilemma when your range runs out and you still need to use your car.

 

[Pariah]

Following that argument the LEAF is infinite miles per gallon...

Leaf doesn't use gas, so technically it does get infinite miles per gallon. It's certainly not a car you would want to use for long trips though. Having to stop every 100 miles and wait 8 (220V) to 20 (110V) hours for a battery recharge would get quite irritating very quickly. If I got stuck using standard outlets, the 500 mile trip home for me would take almost 4 days. I could literally ride a bicycle home a day faster than that including 2 full nights of rest, without having to impersonate Lance Armstrong on steroids.


edit
Prickly read my mind more quickly than I did.

 

[sdifox]

Agreed...it is. It's infinite mpg with an interesting logistics dilemma when your range runs out and you still need to use your car.

And that is why that argument does not hold water. You can't makes claims of x mpg without explaining you are subsidising the consumption of gasoline with the consumption of electricity. Didn't even mention how many kwh were used.

 

[sdifox]

Leaf doesn't use gas, so technically it does get infinite miles per gallon. It's certainly not a car you would want to use for long trips though. Having to stop every 100 miles and wait 8 (220V) to 20 (110V) hours for a battery recharge would get quite irritating very quickly. If I got stuck using standard outlets, the 500 mile trip home for me would take almost 4 days. I could literally ride a bicycle home a day faster than that including 2 full nights of rest, without having to impersonate Lance Armstrong on steroids.


edit
Prickly read my mind more quickly than I did.

oh I am in agreement with you, I am just criticising MT on their shoddy reporting. Like TTAC pointed out, if the same method of calculation of mpg is used on Leaf, it would be infinite miles per gallon and that is just ludicrous.

 

[desy]

It's why some want to get rid of mpg's and move to cost per mile, so you cn compare E85 diesel electric CNG propane gasoline

 

[/b/tard]

It's why some want to get rid of mpg's and move to cost per mile, so you cn compare E85 diesel electric CNG propane gasoline

numbers would still be skewed thanks to subsidies like electric companies only charging pennies per KWH instead of dimes.. Also the worst part about doing cost per mile is that it takes environmental impact out of the equation entirely. Worst part about electric is that even with subsidized electricity rates, it doesn't cover the part about the batteries being a wear item, a very expensive wear item at that.

 

[Pariah]

oh I am in agreement with you, I am just criticising MT on their shoddy reporting. Like TTAC pointed out, if the same method of calculation of mpg is used on Leaf, it would be infinite miles per gallon and that is just ludicrous.

No it wouldn't, since the Leaf doesn't use any fuel. Anyone trying to compare the fuel consumption of an all electric car to a standard car would have to be retarded.

Based on the estimate that a Volt would use 25kW/100 miles, and current local electricity and gas prices here, MT's calculated mileage rating would still be in the 95 mpg range, well beyond any current car on the road that isn't all electric.

However, as has been pointed out a billion times, cost analysis serves no purpose here because the Volt wasn't designed with the intention of saving the owner money on gas. Lexus sells a $110,000 base MSRP hybrid. You think anyone is buying that to save money on gas? Of course not, and no one is going to spend $35k on a Chevrolet to save money on gas either. It's the perception, real or imagined, that your car is more environmentally friendly and you are being more socially responsible by owning one instead of a Hummer. Concepts that are completely foreign to most people on this forum (myself included), that would rather drive a 600HP car around like you stole it even if it gets 10mpg on a good day.

 

[sdifox]

No it wouldn't, since the Leaf doesn't use any fuel. Anyone trying to compare the fuel consumption of an all electric car to a standard car would have to be retarded.

Based on the estimate that a Volt would use 25kW/100 miles, and current local electricity and gas prices here, MT's calculated mileage rating would still be in the 95 mpg range, well beyond any current car on the road that isn't all electric.

However, as has been pointed out a billion times, cost analysis serves no purpose here because the Volt wasn't designed with the intention of saving the owner money on gas. Lexus sells a $110,000 base MSRP hybrid. You think anyone is buying that to save money on gas? Of course not, and no one is going to spend $35k on a Chevrolet to save money on gas either. It's the perception, real or imagined, that your car is more environmentally friendly and you are being more socially responsible by owning one instead of a Hummer. Concepts that are completely foreign to most people on this forum (myself included), that would rather drive a 600HP car around like you stole it even if it gets 10mpg on a good day.

You don't think the method used by Motor Trend has an issue? They added the mileage driven in pure electric mode, which includes car being recharged nightly to the mileage driven in gas mode and divided by the amount of gas used. So apply the same methodology to LEAF and you get a infinite mile per gallon which is of course ludicrous.

That is the thing I am having a problem with. Nothing to do with the car itself.

 

[ShawnD1]

And that is why that argument does not hold water. You can't makes claims of x mpg without explaining you are subsidising the consumption of gasoline with the consumption of electricity. Didn't even mention how many kwh were used.

Electricity is waaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper than gas. That's the whole point.


Someone should get to work on making a hybrid car with a small generator. Instead of putting a giant 100HP engine in the car, just put maybe 10HP and have it directly tied to a generator. When the battery runs low, you could pull over and drink a beer while it quick charges for 10 minutes. It couldn't be any worse for the batteries than what a Prius currently does. How much power do you think it puts into the batteries when you slow a 4000 pound car from 60 to 0 in 30 seconds? I don't feel like calculating it, but it's probably a really high charge rate.

 

[jhu]

Based on the estimate that a Volt would use 25kW/100 miles, and current local electricity and gas prices here, MT's calculated mileage rating would still be in the 95 mpg range, well beyond any current car on the road that isn't all electric.

The only proper way to compare energy usage is to use joules - joules from electricity vs. joules from gasoline. Only then can you get an MPG equivalent number for electric vehicles. Also you probably mean 25 kWh as 25 kW is a rate.

 

[Bignate603]

The only proper way to compare energy usage is to use joules - joules from electricity vs. joules from gasoline. Only then can you get an MPG equivalent number for electric vehicles. Also you probably mean 25 kWh as 25 kW is a rate.

It would be silly to rate things in Joules because the cost of each Joule is different depending on the source. As has been suggested before, miles/dollar is a better comparison.

 

[PricklyPete]

And that is why that argument does not hold water. You can't makes claims of x mpg without explaining you are subsidising the consumption of gasoline with the consumption of electricity. Didn't even mention how many kwh were used.

How so? Of course you can. You use a car for so many miles and you use so much gas. That is the definition of gas mileage. They used the car in the "real world" using the car in a similar fashion to how they would use other cars they test. In doing that, they recorded 127mpg. Sure the details explain how they got to that number, but it doesn't take away from the mileage figure. Could they have only driven 40 miles at a time to get "infinite" mpg...but clearly they didn't...and they still got some impressive numbers. Could they have driven it across the country and gotten 35mpg...sure they could have...but they don't do that with other cars they test...so why would they do it with this car. They used it under their normal circumstances and came back with a nice MPG. The reality is that most of us after a year of using the car would likely end up with the same...which is what is impressive.

 

[sdifox]

How so? Of course you can. You use a car for so many miles and you use so much gas. That is the definition of gas mileage. They used the car in the "real world" using the car in a similar fashion to how they would use other cars they test. In doing that, they recorded 127mpg. Sure the details explain how they got to that number, but it doesn't take away from the mileage figure. Could they have only driven 40 miles at a time to get "infinite" mpg...but clearly they didn't...and they still got some impressive numbers. Could they have driven it across the country and gotten 35mpg...sure they could have...but they don't do that with other cars they test...so why would they do it with this car. They used it under their normal circumstances and came back with a nice MPG. The reality is that most of us after a year of using the car would likely end up with the same...which is what is impressive.

so, all electric have infinite mpg??? At the very least, list the kwh used. The selling point of Volt is that for short distance commuters, you don't use gas (directly). But to use that 127mpg figure being thrown around without the caveat emptor is just ludicrous.

"The Volt, to reiterate, used 2.36 gallons over 299 miles. That's freaking amazing!"

That sentence makes it look like that is all it took for the Volt to move 300mi when that is a lie.

The mileage calculation method MT used on all previous Gas only vehicle is clearly inadequate when it comes to hybrids and electrics.


It's like testing a gasoline powered car by driving it 40 miles, load it up on a truck, drive 250 miles on the truck and unload the car, and claim you used only 2 gallons of gas to drive 290 miles.

 

[LTC8K6]

They don't have to. Just look at the chart. If the trip distance exceeds the pure electric miles then the batteries were depleted. If it doesn't, then the batteries had charge left.

Or they took it easy one day, and lead footed it the next...

 

[Spicedaddy]

Would be interesting at 20K$, people who buy 41K$ cars don't care about gas prices.

 

[ShawnD1]

Or they took it easy one day, and lead footed it the next...

The efficiency difference between feathering it and flooring it is incredibly small. I've tried driving both ways, and there's no measurable difference.

My Corolla has an automatic transmission, so naturally it hits red line several times per day every single day and there's no way to stop it. Gas mileage? It gets exactly what my gubment says it should get - 35.8 miles per US gallon (Canadian test standards) in combined city/freeway/highway driving to and from work on the opposite end of the city; approximately 62 miles round trip each day. The US EPA's ratings are a lot more intense. Canada assumes you are flooring it off the line every time. The US EPA assumes you are driving with the emergency brake on, and that's why their mileage numbers are so much lower.

Wait for the EPA to post some numbers. Your car will always hit the EPA's rating at the very least.