The Chevy Volt is just another hybrid?

[/b/tard]

?
American cars typically cost less than Japanese cars. Sometimes it's quite a bit less.

sorry, what i was gettin at was that detroit tries so hard to copy japanese cars and when they do, they utterly fail at it. japan is very good at copying and improving on a concept, but detroit is usually much better at working on original concepts..(ford fusion is unique, the ecoboost is unique, etc.) too bad the volt isn't an original concept.

 

[Bignate603]

you're forgetting the whole trying to make a Prius plug-in hybrid without paying patent dues. if you read the articles on these shenanigans that gm was going through, you'd realize that gm was trying to remake the prius whilst avoiding paying for patents.. not to mention the fact that it gives the perception gm was doing something creative when all they were doing was reinventing an already decent product while charging twice as much and being poorly executed.

If you look at the design of the transmission, it's almost exactly the same as the Prius, but in order to get their own patents, they mixed things around. So yes, the engineers had quite a bit of ingenuity, for the task at hand, which was to avoid paying patent dues, However, to the perspective of the consumer, they utterly failed at outdoing the Prius whilst charging double the price....sounds typical for detroit.

why did we bail these idiots out again? Ford is what created detroit anyway and they needed no such bailout, seems like letting Chrysler and General Motors go under would have been for the best. Someone buys their names and assets, and rebuilds the companies without the pension liabilities and whatnot.

Yeah... you obviously don't completely understand the difference between the Prius' gearbox and the Volt's. The fact that they're using a planetary gearbox isn't anything new, the Model T used one because Henry Ford thought that the average driver wasn't bright enough to figure out a normal manual gearbox. Planetary gearboxes are used all over the place in different configurations and in any configuration where you have multiple power inputs and outputs its an obvious choice.

The Prius' gearbox and powertrain layout make it impossible to top 62 mph in electric only mode. Without input from the gas engine it ends up spinning the electric ones too fast. This is fine for a hybrid that relies heavily on its gas engine but won't fly for a car that is intended to operate primarily on power from its batteries. With the Volt's layout it can cruise in all electric power right up to its top speed, over 100 mph. The layout is fundamentally different and gives it a distinct advantage for a car intended to be able to operate in all electric mode.

I don't care if its going to be a hybrid, I just wish I still looked like this.

People doing concept cars for car shows don't usually check drag coefficients. I remember reading that some people involved with development at GM had commented that the original concept was more aerodynamic going backward than it was going forwards.

 

[punjabiplaya]

127 mpg

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595/green/127-mpg-this-volt-story-must-be-told/index.html

 

[darkswordsman17]

I don't care if its going to be a hybrid, I just wish I still looked like this.

I don't find the production Volt to be a great looking car, but I think that is even worse.

 

[MikeMike]

sorry, what i was gettin at was that detroit tries so hard to copy japanese cars and when they do, they utterly fail at it. japan is very good at copying and improving on a concept, but detroit is usually much better at working on original concepts..(ford fusion is unique, the ecoboost is unique, etc.) too bad the volt isn't an original concept.

So the Ford Fusion Hybrid is unique since they license Toyota technology?

if you actually knew something, i would argue with you, but you dont...

and ecoboost is just a freaking fancy name for a turbo charged engine... which GM started...

 

[Bignate603]

127 mpg

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595/green/127-mpg-this-volt-story-must-be-told/index.html

That mpg number is going to be debated constantly. People keep grabbing hold of the Volt's range extending mode's mileage and comparing that against the Prius. They keep forgetting that you only start getting that mileage when you're almost 40 miles down the road. For most people that's enough to do their typical daily driving.

 

[/b/tard]

The Prius' gearbox and powertrain layout make it impossible to top 62 mph in electric only mode. Without input from the gas engine it ends up spinning the electric ones too fast. This is fine for a hybrid that relies heavily on its gas engine but won't fly for a car that is intended to operate primarily on power from its batteries. With the Volt's layout it can cruise in all electric power right up to its top speed, over 100 mph. The layout is fundamentally different and gives it a distinct advantage for a car intended to be able to operate in all electric mode.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/10/the-chevrolet-volt-isnt-a-true-ev/

UPDATED: 12 p.m. Eastern, Oct. 12: Mea culpa — as two readers noted in the comments, I misunderstood Tony Posawatz’s explanation of the circumstances under which the internal combustion engine and generator unit provide a mechanical assist to the electric traction motor. According to GM spokesman Rob Peterson, the engine/generator combo provides an assist only during range-extended mode at speeds of around 70 mph and above.
“For the first 25 to 50 miles of driving, the Volt is a full-performance electric vehicle from zero to 100 mph,” Peterson said.
.

Just found this little update...
Well, even if the volt is able to run in purely electric mode up to top speed, it won't be able to do it for long and that will result in a vehicle that runs off of gasoline. One problem with this though is that the MPG this car gets while in charge sustained mode is totally underwhelming.

 

[/b/tard]

So the Ford Fusion Hybrid is unique since they license Toyota technology?

if you actually knew something, i would argue with you, but you dont...

and ecoboost is just a freaking fancy name for a turbo charged engine... which GM started...

The Ford Fusion is unique not because of the technology they use, but because of how it's executed. Like you said with the Fusion using Toyota technology (though some is original) I cant seem to grasp how the Fusion gets 39mpg combined while the Camry Hybrid gets 34mpg combined, yet the Fusion is a bigger, more powerful car. As for Ecoboost, the turbocharging isn't what's unique, what's unique is that they made an engine design that was supremely durable, that can be used across all of its vehicles instead of niche performance vehicles.
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Fords-EcoBoost-Twin-Turbo-V6/A_111422/article.html

EcoBoost also endured Ford’s standard engine durability test signoff. Back in the dynamometer lab, the 3.5-litre EcoBoost V6 went back up to full revs – and maximum turbo boost – for a real endurance test. This time it stayed at full throttle for 362 hours. That’s like running the 24 Hours of Daytona for more than 15 days straight.

The idea that they could design a turbo charged engine to last so long under the harshest conditions whilst delivering power when needed and improved fuel economy is what is so unique.

Even if the Volt was true to its marketing material from the beginning, it'd still be an abysmal failure in my eyes 'cause of its terrible mileage in charge sustaining mode, it's exorbitant price and a whole host of other unmentionables.

 

[MikeMike]

so you praise the fusion for getting 39mpg combined, and then bitch when the Volt getss mid30;s to 40mpg in charge sustain mode?

yet again, i am arguing with an internet idiot.

 

[alphatarget1]

so you praise the fusion for getting 39mpg combined, and then bitch when the Volt getss mid30;s to 40mpg in charge sustain mode?

yet again, i am arguing with an internet idiot.

The Volt is a lot more expensive.

With that said, I don't see what the huge deal is. I personally wouldn't buy one because of the price tag but IMO the Volt still has a TON of new technology and thought into it. So what if the gasoline engine drives the car when it's over 70mph? If you were so eco-conscious, you shouldn't be driving above 65mph anyway. Plus for a 40 mile commute in traffic, you won't get anywhere near 70mph. Outrage not found.

My cousin had a roommate with a camry hybrid who drives it like the stole it. I wonder what kind of gas mileage she gets.

 

[/b/tard]

so you praise the fusion for getting 39mpg combined, and then bitch when the Volt getss mid30;s to 40mpg in charge sustain mode?

yet again, i am arguing with an internet idiot.

The Volt has a lot more in common with a Prius than it does with the Fusion Hybrid. It's not just purely a MPG game, it's also about the MPG for the type of vehicle you have. 50mpg sounds great by itself, but if you told me that those numbers were with a 200lb 2 wheeled vehicle with no safety or creature comforts, I'd say get lost. But if you told me you got 20mpg out of a tractor trailer carrying 30 ton payload, I'd say "HOLY SHIT!", that's amazing.

The Volt is crap because it's a crappy replica of the plug-in Prius with none of the benefits of being a Prius. You can't compare the Volt with the Ford Fusion Hybrid as the Volt just so happens to be significantly more expensive than the Fusion Hybrid with none of the benefits. Whose the idiot now?

 

[JCH13]

Who's the idiot now?

:awe: just jerking your chain a little bit

Before you get down on your knees for the Prius you should know that R&D for the Prius battery pack and hybrid drive-train was allegedly 100% funded by the Japanese government. It's also quite possible that the Prius is being dumped (sold at a loss) in the US market. Here is an interesting article.

 

[jaydee]

The Volt is crap because it's a crappy replica of the plug-in Prius with none of the benefits of being a Prius. You can't compare the Volt with the Ford Fusion Hybrid as the Volt just so happens to be significantly more expensive than the Fusion Hybrid with none of the benefits. Whose the idiot now?

Where can you buy a plug-in Prius? Let me end the suspense: you can't for another two years. Yet GM copied a vehicle that doesn't yet exist? And the Fusion uses gasoline all the time and the Volt does not. Which part of this do you not understand? You really don't know much/anything about cars, do you?

 

[Bignate603]

The Volt has a lot more in common with a Prius than it does with the Fusion Hybrid. It's not just purely a MPG game, it's also about the MPG for the type of vehicle you have. 50mpg sounds great by itself, but if you told me that those numbers were with a 200lb 2 wheeled vehicle with no safety or creature comforts, I'd say get lost. But if you told me you got 20mpg out of a tractor trailer carrying 30 ton payload, I'd say "HOLY SHIT!", that's amazing.

The Volt is crap because it's a crappy replica of the plug-in Prius with none of the benefits of being a Prius. You can't compare the Volt with the Ford Fusion Hybrid as the Volt just so happens to be significantly more expensive than the Fusion Hybrid with none of the benefits. Whose the idiot now?

Motortrend got 127 mpg out of their test Volt in normal every day driving. I fail to see how that is not a benefit over a Prius.

 

[LTC8K6]

It depends on how you calculate and how far you drive at a stretch, though.

Using published numbers:

If you drive 10 miles, you wouldn't use any fuel at all.

If you drive 40 miles, you might not use any fuel at all.

If you stay with the short trips, and recharge in between, you might never use any fuel to move the car.

If you drive for 80 miles, you'd use about 1 gallon of gasoline, and you'd have obviously gotten 80 miles to the gallon, if you are just considering the gasoline used.

If you drive the full advertised ~340 miles on the highway, you might be down to about 38 miles per gallon.

If you drive that same full range with a mix of driving, you might be in the 34-35 mile per gallon range.

If you live where there are enough "free" charging stations, you can drive on the public dime all the time, too. Even though you can afford an expensive car. :biggrin:

 

[desy]

Did you bother to read it? 127 mpg over 300 miles mixed driving or similar to a tank of gas used in a conventional car


Here's why I'm so geeked on the Chevy Volt and why you should be, too. In normal, everyday driving we got 127 miles per gallon (fine, 126.7 mpg). Which is pretty amazing. Broken down, over the course of 299 miles on Los Angeles highways, byways and freeways, the Volt burned 2.36 gallons of gasoline (fine, 2.359 gallons -- we rounded up). Most other cars use up a tank of gas going 299 miles. The Volt, to reiterate, used 2.36 gallons over 299 miles. That's freaking amazing

Read more: http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595...t-story-must-be-told/index.html#ixzz12FUbDJws

 

[sdifox]

So the Ford Fusion Hybrid is unique since they license Toyota technology?

if you actually knew something, i would argue with you, but you dont...

and ecoboost is just a freaking fancy name for a turbo charged engine... which GM started...

as far as I know Ford developed their own system but had to pay Toyota due to patent issues.

 

[PricklyPete]

Did you bother to read it? 127 mpg over 300 miles mixed driving or similar to a tank of gas used in a conventional car


Here's why I'm so geeked on the Chevy Volt and why you should be, too. In normal, everyday driving we got 127 miles per gallon (fine, 126.7 mpg). Which is pretty amazing. Broken down, over the course of 299 miles on Los Angeles highways, byways and freeways, the Volt burned 2.36 gallons of gasoline (fine, 2.359 gallons -- we rounded up). Most other cars use up a tank of gas going 299 miles. The Volt, to reiterate, used 2.36 gallons over 299 miles. That's freaking amazing

Read more: http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595...t-story-must-be-told/index.html#ixzz12FUbDJws

I have to say, that is quite amazing. I realize if you're taking a cross country trip, the car is going to do a 30-40mpg. But for 99% of most people's driving, this thing is going to get unbelievable mileage. Think of this technology in 2 or 3 generations when it becomes reasonably priced...it will be fantastic for a A to B appliance. And from the reviews, the Volt actually "performs" a lot better than most other eco conscious cars with its peppy electric engine and low center of gravity.

 

[Ktulu]

Did you bother to read it? 127 mpg over 300 miles mixed driving or similar to a tank of gas used in a conventional car


Here's why I'm so geeked on the Chevy Volt and why you should be, too. In normal, everyday driving we got 127 miles per gallon (fine, 126.7 mpg). Which is pretty amazing. Broken down, over the course of 299 miles on Los Angeles highways, byways and freeways, the Volt burned 2.36 gallons of gasoline (fine, 2.359 gallons -- we rounded up). Most other cars use up a tank of gas going 299 miles. The Volt, to reiterate, used 2.36 gallons over 299 miles. That's freaking amazing

Read more: http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595...t-story-must-be-told/index.html#ixzz12FUbDJws

Wow impressive, i like that they point out that there's no way in hell you'd ever be able to achieve that distance on one single charge in the Nissan Leaf. And you're never going to get those kinds of MPG figures in a Prius and they drove the Volt very aggressively according to the article. Looks like GM got it right.

 

[jhu]

The Ford Fusion is unique not because of the technology they use, but because of how it's executed. Like you said with the Fusion using Toyota technology (though some is original) I cant seem to grasp how the Fusion gets 39mpg combined while the Camry Hybrid gets 34mpg combined, yet the Fusion is a bigger, more powerful car. As for Ecoboost, the turbocharging isn't what's unique, what's unique is that they made an engine design that was supremely durable, that can be used across all of its vehicles instead of niche performance vehicles.

Ford only licensed about 20 patents from Toyota for the Fusion, and as far as I've read, they're not related to the hybrid drivetrain. The Fusion reportedly has 119 patents to it, more than any other production car.

With regard to Ecoboot, they also made it direct injection, which VW has had for a few years.

 

[Zargon]

a MT article saying good things about a GM product???


holy shit!!!

 

[ElFenix]

as far as I know Ford developed their own system but had to pay Toyota due to patent issues.

ford didn't pay any money, toyota licensed ford's diesel portfolio.

and ecoboost is just a freaking fancy name for a turbo charged engine... which GM started...

ecoboost is the combination of turbocharging and gasoline direct injection, both of which were invented pre- WWII and used in production aircraft engines during the war. turbos were used on trains and ships in the ~1920s. hardly a GM innovation.

 

[LTC8K6]

Did you bother to read it? 127 mpg over 300 miles mixed driving or similar to a tank of gas used in a conventional car


Here's why I'm so geeked on the Chevy Volt and why you should be, too. In normal, everyday driving we got 127 miles per gallon (fine, 126.7 mpg). Which is pretty amazing. Broken down, over the course of 299 miles on Los Angeles highways, byways and freeways, the Volt burned 2.36 gallons of gasoline (fine, 2.359 gallons -- we rounded up). Most other cars use up a tank of gas going 299 miles. The Volt, to reiterate, used 2.36 gallons over 299 miles. That's freaking amazing

Read more: http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595...t-story-must-be-told/index.html#ixzz12FUbDJws

Sure.

It's a bit odd though. Total range has always been put at ~340 miles.

Seems like if the MT figures are correct, the range must be much greater than 340 miles.

 

[Zargon]

ecoboost is the combination of turbocharging and gasoline direct injection, both of which were invented pre- WWII and used in production aircraft engines during the war. turbos were used on trains and ships in the ~1920s. hardly a GM innovation.

GM was the first to use it on an automobile though

 

[desy]

MT didn't try to run the tank dry they just drove it about for 300 miles or roughly a tank

I'd suspect the mileage to start to drop off above the 300 miles they drove, however I rarely drive 300 miles in a day and would charge up in the meantime, typical day for me is 40 miles furthest typical is 240 miles