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The Cesspool of Humanity

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maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
It's O.K. if some on this forum cannot read, or have an agenda, but those who blame the Federal Govt for not micro-managing the States are showing immaturity of thought and a lack of thorough understanding of all things Federal.

As one of the few reprobates on the Forum, and one of the few realists in general, I find that because I want our fabulous Federal Govt to butt out as much as humanly possible to avoid a cluster F**k I am often labeled a "Bushie".

Far from the truth.....I just feel that the Feds should NOT be micro-managing anything. The Consitution guarantees States Rights to self-governace except in the case of rights reserved for the Federal Govt. Maintenance of a CITY in one of the STATES is NOT a function of the Federal Govt. If LA can spend tens of millions on a stadium and not care for the retaining wall.........

 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: maluckey
It's O.K. if some on this forum cannot read, or have an agenda, but those who blame the Federal Govt for not micro-managing the States are showing immaturity of thought and a lack of thorough understanding of all things Federal.

As one of the few reprobates on the Forum, and one of the few realists in general, I find that because I want our fabulous Federal Govt to butt out as much as humanly possible to avoid a cluster F**k I am often labeled a "Bushie".

Far from the truth.....I just feel that the Feds should NOT be micro-managing anything. The Consitution guarantees States Rights to self-governace except in the case of rights reserved for the Federal Govt. Maintenance of a CITY in one of the STATES is NOT a function of the Federal Govt. If LA can spend tens of millions on a stadium and not care for the retaining wall.........


Yeah, and now the port is closed and the refineres are off line. That's the cities responisbility as well? Disasters like this affects EVERYBODY.


 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
The refiners are not "off-line", and gas is now only 220 per gallon on the AR border with LA. Manufacturers are very inconvienienced, but not shut-down. I just drove to LA through AR to visit kin-folk in Biloxi, all done without issues.

As far as Bush and co.......

Let's see...........

Bush gets up in the morning and says "Hmmmmnnnn, it appears that Arkansas isn't handling their liquor licenses properly, we need to do something about that!". Next he mulls over a report that California wine growers aren't controlling the runoff from their orchards.... "weelllll enough....time to send in the troops!!"

The Port of NO is owned by the State of LA. They bear the responsibility to direct the maintenance of this facility....or not as was the case. the government of LA was an absentee government and the people in their charge have payed the price. Big Brother was not, is not, and should not be in charge of State affairs. This is not to say that they do not need help, just that help should be setup to help them to help themselves so that this does not repeat itself.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
I am just stunned by looking at the damage spread out over so large an area.
More staggering yet is the continued 'Fixing of the Blame' over fixing the situation.

Anyone willing to step up to the plate and lead ?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: maluckey
The refiners are not "off-line", and gas is now only 220 per gallon on the AR border with LA.

Link to that?? I looked yesterday and couldn't find much info except that the dmamged refiners would probably be out longer then they were last time, which was several weeks.

If you can't see how this hurts the whole country, then that is your problem. You have the right to your opinion.

BTW, gas here went from $2.49/gal on Monday to 2.79 on Wed. to 3.19 on Friday.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: maluckey
The refiners are not "off-line", and gas is now only 220 per gallon on the AR border with LA. Manufacturers are very inconvienienced, but not shut-down. I just drove to LA through AR to visit kin-folk in Biloxi, all done without issues.

As far as Bush and co.......

Let's see...........

Bush gets up in the morning and says "Hmmmmnnnn, it appears that Arkansas isn't handling their liquor licenses properly, we need to do something about that!". Next he mulls over a report that California wine growers aren't controlling the runoff from their orchards.... "weelllll enough....time to send in the troops!!"

The Port of NO is owned by the State of LA. They bear the responsibility to direct the maintenance of this facility....or not as was the case. the government of LA was an absentee government and the people in their charge have payed the price. Big Brother was not, is not, and should not be in charge of State affairs. This is not to say that they do not need help, just that help should be setup to help them to help themselves so that this does not repeat itself.
Don't bother explaining rational facts of the matter. They'll ignore it, opportunistically bash Bush anyway, ignore that Bush put things into motion BEFORE the hurricane even hit, and then collectively pat themselves in the tushie for "stepping up" while screaming at anyone who DARES to point a finger of blame where it rightly belongs.

The absolute blind Bush bashing rage and political opportunism displayed by certain people in this forum has been nothing short of disgusting. Some even had the nerve to play the "compassion" card. What a fvcking joke.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Yeah but you keep coming back to defend the Bush Admin when it's clear they dropped the ball on this.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: maluckey
It's O.K. if some on this forum cannot read, or have an agenda, but those who blame the Federal Govt for not micro-managing the States are showing immaturity of thought and a lack of thorough understanding of all things Federal.

As one of the few reprobates on the Forum, and one of the few realists in general, I find that because I want our fabulous Federal Govt to butt out as much as humanly possible to avoid a cluster F**k I am often labeled a "Bushie".

Far from the truth.....I just feel that the Feds should NOT be micro-managing anything. The Consitution guarantees States Rights to self-governace except in the case of rights reserved for the Federal Govt. Maintenance of a CITY in one of the STATES is NOT a function of the Federal Govt. If LA can spend tens of millions on a stadium and not care for the retaining wall.........
What are you talking about, "those who blame the Federal Govt for not micro-managing the States"? Who is doing this, and where? If you're talking about BushCo cutting funds for levy upgrades, I think your argument is a bit disingenuous. The residents of LA and New Orleans pay federal taxes too. If Alaska can have their $200 million bridge for a mere 50 people, is it really that unreasonable for LA to receive funding to protect 500,000 people and perhaps hundreds of billions in property?

While I generally support limiting the federal government's role with respect to state issues, this is NOT a normal situation. This is a catastrophe, the worst America has ever seen. Hundreds, probably thousands of people died or are dying while men and equipment that could be helping remained idle. This is not the time for bureaucrats to fret about jurisdiction and protocol. In my opinion, government at all levels, local, state, and federal, failed the Americans along the Gulf Coast.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Don't bother explaining rational facts of the matter. They'll ignore it, opportunistically bash Bush anyway, ignore that Bush put things into motion BEFORE the hurricane even hit, and then collectively pat themselves in the tushie for "stepping up" while screaming at anyone who DARES to point a finger of blame where it rightly belongs.

The absolute blind Bush bashing rage and political opportunism displayed by certain people in this forum has been nothing short of disgusting. Some even had the nerve to play the "compassion" card. What a fvcking joke.
:cookie:

You are such a liar. No one is denying (or ignoring) BushCo put some "things into motion BEFORE the hurricane even hit". The complaint is that it was too little, too late. The compaint is Bush didn't step up and act decisively, ensuring normal bureaucratic incompetence didn't impede an all-out response. The complaint is Bush put an incompetent in charge of FEMA, and made other changes over the last few years that sabotaged FEMA's capabilities. Most of all, the complaint is thousands of people died unnecessarily due to failures at all levels of government, failures the Bush administration could have mitigated in many caases.

In fact, the only ones I see taking absolute positions are the fervent Bush apologists like you who have yet to acknowledge Bush himself is less than perfect. I've seen you blame everyone else for one failure or another, but I've seen not a peep critical of Bush himself. Please feel free to cite it if I've missed it, but I'm betting you'll divert from my points with insults and attacks.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

The absolute blind Bush bashing rage and political opportunism displayed by certain people in this forum has been nothing short of disgusting. Some even had the nerve to play the "compassion" card. What a fvcking joke.

The "compassion card"?? You mean the one you idiot Bush supporters pulled out of your asses when you couldn't find any WMD's in Iraq??? It's cost us 200 billion fvking bucks and counting, but your more worried about "personal responsibility" of the US citizens in distress. Nice to see where your loyalties lie you fvking NEOCON A$$HOLE.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


If your so concerned about "personal responsibilities", then why aren't you all over GWB for the lies that I have showcased in my sig? LMAO, Go take YOUR PARTISIAN BICKERING and stuff it.
 

rustynails

Banned
Jun 22, 2005
115
0
0
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: maluckey
It's O.K. if some on this forum cannot read, or have an agenda, but those who blame the Federal Govt for not micro-managing the States are showing immaturity of thought and a lack of thorough understanding of all things Federal.

As one of the few reprobates on the Forum, and one of the few realists in general, I find that because I want our fabulous Federal Govt to butt out as much as humanly possible to avoid a cluster F**k I am often labeled a "Bushie".

Far from the truth.....I just feel that the Feds should NOT be micro-managing anything. The Consitution guarantees States Rights to self-governace except in the case of rights reserved for the Federal Govt. Maintenance of a CITY in one of the STATES is NOT a function of the Federal Govt. If LA can spend tens of millions on a stadium and not care for the retaining wall.........
What are you talking about, "those who blame the Federal Govt for not micro-managing the States"? Who is doing this, and where? If you're talking about BushCo cutting funds for levy upgrades, I think your argument is a bit disingenuous. The residents of LA and New Orleans pay federal taxes too. If Alaska can have their $200 million bridge for a mere 50 people, is it really that unreasonable for LA to receive funding to protect 500,000 people and perhaps hundreds of billions in property?

While I generally support limiting the federal government's role with respect to state issues, this is NOT a normal situation. This is a catastrophe, the worst America has ever seen. Hundreds, probably thousands of people died or are dying while men and equipment that could be helping remained idle. This is not the time for bureaucrats to fret about jurisdiction and protocol. In my opinion, government at all levels, local, state, and federal, failed the Americans along the Gulf Coast.

Jellyfinger,

What you and many people fail to realize or even admit to is that no amount of funding would have prevented the levee from breaking at this temporal / spatial moment. Funds have been denied, for the complete overhaul, far back into the pole smoking administration. And even if the funds would have been granted back then; it would have taken nearly a decade to complete. So yeah?, funds were cut back, and only 40 mil was granted over-all in a recent funding bill; but the problem of the levee needed to be substantially handled many years back.

 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yeah but you keep coming back to defend the Bush Admin when it's clear they dropped the ball on this.
No, actually it's not clear "they" dropped the ball. Did FEMA drop the ball? Most likely, and Brown probably deserves the axe, if not for the response for the idiotic remarks he made that understated and underestimated the problem. But the insistence of the Bush bashers is that Bush somehow should have micromanaged this whole thing himself, which is making a false conclusion - creating a red herring - in order to attack him per their usual MO. Bush did what he was supposed to do while others on the state and local levels clearly did not. And when I see you taking those folks to task Dan, your Bush 'apologist' statement might actually mean something in here, seeing as you're an avid Bush basher yourself and well known to be highly partisan.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
I wonder what's taking so long to hear anything about the death toll from Katrina?? I keep hearing that 10,000 or maybe even more figure and that just floors me.
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin Told CBS News 10,000 people and maybe more have perished because of the storm.

I read an article someplace where Brown was asked about the death toll and said he was too busy saving lives right now to worry about that. Yeah, I'm sure there not trying to get a handle on what it's going to take to get the rotting bodies out of the streets.

You don't suppose he has some partisian reasons for not sharing soem kind of best estimate? You know Bush says he's doing a hell of a job. ;)
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
If Alaska can have their $200 million bridge for a mere 50 people, is it really that unreasonable for LA to receive funding to protect 500,000 people and perhaps hundreds of billions in property?

So one stupid act should beget another??? Talk about warped logic! I don't support either, and lest we all forget, the Port of NO is NOT a Federal problem, rather a State problem. If the State of LA chose to not maintain it, then they should be held accountable. Waiting till the Feds hand out the money is plain welfare-state mentality, and serves the public no greater purpose other tan to promote bankrolling the public.

Now let's get the people the immediate relief and forget the rest. They can take it out on their leadership after the lives are saved.

 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
FEMA dropped the ball ? No, more like the interfered with everyones attempt to score . .

After Failures, Government Officials Play Blame Game[/l

NY Times:

As the Bush administration tried to show a more forceful effort to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina, government officials on Sunday escalated their criticism and sniping over who was to blame for the problems plaguing the initial response.

While rescuers were still trying to reach people stranded by the floods, perhaps the only consensus among local, state and federal officials was that the system had failed.

Some federal officials said uncertainty over who was in charge had contributed to delays in providing aid and imposing order, and officials in Louisiana complained that Washington disaster officials had blocked some aid efforts.

Local and state resources were so weakened, said Michael Chertoff, the homeland security secretary, that in the future federal authorities need to take "more of an upfront role earlier on, when we have these truly ultracatastrophes."

But furious state and local officials insisted that the real problem was that the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which Mr. Chertoff's department oversees, failed to deliver urgently needed help and, through incomprehensible red tape, even thwarted others' efforts to help.

"We wanted soldiers, helicopters, food and water," said Denise Bottcher, press secretary for Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco of Louisiana. "They wanted to negotiate an organizational chart."

Mayor C. Ray Nagin of New Orleans expressed similar frustrations. "We're still fighting over authority," he told reporters on Saturday. "A bunch of people are the boss. The state and federal government are doing a two-step dance."

In one of several such appeals, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York, called on President Bush on Sunday to appoint an independent national commission to examine the relief effort. She also said that she intends to introduce legislation to remove FEMA from the Department of Homeland Security and restore its previous status as an independent agency with cabinet-level status.

Mr. Chertoff tried to deflect the criticism of his department and FEMA by saying there would be time later to decide what went wrong.

"Whatever the criticisms and the after-action report may be about what was right and what was wrong looking back, what would be a horrible tragedy would be to distract ourselves from avoiding further problems because we're spending time talking about problems that have already occurred," he told Tim Russert on "Meet the Press" on NBC.

But local officials, who still feel overwhelmed by the continuing tragedy, demanded accountability and as well as action.

"Why did it happen? Who needs to be fired?" asked Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, south of New Orleans.

Far from deferring to state or local officials, FEMA asserted its authority and made things worse, Mr. Broussard complained on "Meet the Press."

When Wal-Mart sent three trailer trucks loaded with water, FEMA officials turned them away, he said. Agency workers prevented the Coast Guard from delivering 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel, and on Saturday they cut the parish's emergency communications line, leading the sheriff to restore it and post armed guards to protect it from FEMA, Mr. Broussard said.

One sign of the continuing battle over who was in charge was Governor Blanco's refusal to sign an agreement proposed by the White House to share control of National Guard forces with the federal authorities.

Under the White House plan, Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honoré would oversee both the National Guard and the active duty federal troops, reporting jointly to the president and Ms. Blanco.

"She would lose control when she had been in control from the very beginning," said Ms. Bottcher, the governor's press secretary.

Ms. Bottcher was one of several officials yesterday who said she believed FEMA had interfered with the delivery of aid, including offers from the mayor of Chicago, Richard M. Daley, and the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.

Adam Sharp, a spokesman for Senator Mary L. Landrieu, Democrat of Louisiana, said the problem was not who was in command. FEMA repeatedly held up assistance that could have been critical, he said.

"FEMA has just been very slow to make these decisions," Mr. Sharp said.

In a clear slap at Mr. Chertoff and the FEMA director, Michael D. Brown, Governor Blanco announced Saturday that she had hired James Lee Witt, the director of FEMA during the Clinton administration, to advise her on the recovery.


Nearly every emergency worker told agonizing stories of communications failures, some of them most likely fatal to victims. Police officers called Senator Landrieu's Washington office because they could not reach commanders on the ground in New Orleans, Mr. Sharp said.

Dr. Ross Judice, chief medical officer for a large ambulance company, recounted how on Tuesday, unable to find out when helicopters would land to pick up critically ill patients at the Superdome, he walked outside and discovered that two helicopters, donated by an oil services company, had been waiting in the parking lot.

Brilliant, absolutely Brilliant . . Medals of Freedom for everyone.

The only batter to step up to the plate so far has been Lt. Gen. Russell Honore


 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Mr. Chertoff tried to deflect the criticism of his department and FEMA by saying there would be time later to decide what went wrong.

"Whatever the criticisms and the after-action report may be about what was right and what was wrong looking back, what would be a horrible tragedy would be to distract ourselves from avoiding further problems because we're spending time talking about problems that have already occurred," he told Tim Russert on "Meet the Press" on NBC.

Fair enough...... for now.
In a clear slap at Mr. Chertoff and the FEMA director, Michael D. Brown, Governor Blanco announced Saturday that she had hired James Lee Witt, the director of FEMA during the Clinton administration, to advise her on the recovery
Good for her. He should know a thing or two about the do's and don'ts of disasters.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: maluckey
If Alaska can have their $200 million bridge for a mere 50 people, is it really that unreasonable for LA to receive funding to protect 500,000 people and perhaps hundreds of billions in property?
So one stupid act should beget another??? Talk about warped logic! I don't support either, and lest we all forget, the Port of NO is NOT a Federal problem, rather a State problem. If the State of LA chose to not maintain it, then they should be held accountable. Waiting till the Feds hand out the money is plain welfare-state mentality, and serves the public no greater purpose other tan to promote bankrolling the public.

Now let's get the people the immediate relief and forget the rest. They can take it out on their leadership after the lives are saved.
You are dodging the point. As long as LA residents pay federal taxes, they have as much right to federal projects and services as everyone else. Whatever philosophical arguments you might make about how things should work in your ideal world, the actual facts here in the real world are clear: the $200M pork bridge for 50 was funded and the levy funding -- intended to protect 500,000 people and untold billions in property -- was cut. That is warped logic.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
Bowfinger

True enough....but the facts are still that the Fdederal Government has NO OBLIGATION to either scenario. It does suck that they (the Feds) arbitrarily chose one over the other, but this fact absolutely does NOT relieve LA from it's responsibilities to maintain it's own infrastructure. Blaming Bush and Co for he failures of LA is plain old fashioned dumb. It's like blaming the Russians for Solar Flares.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: maluckey
Bowfinger

True enough....but the facts are still that the Fdederal Government has NO OBLIGATION to either scenario. It does suck that they (the Feds) arbitrarily chose one over the other, but this fact absolutely does NOT relieve LA from it's responsibilities to maintain it's own infrastructure. Blaming Bush and Co for he failures of LA is plain old fashioned dumb. It's like blaming the Russians for Solar Flares.

The liberals here blame Bush when they have streaks in their underpants...

There is plenty of blame to go around, from FEMA right on down to Mayor Nagin. But now isn't the time for that...
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: maluckey
Bowfinger

True enough....but the facts are still that the Fdederal Government has NO OBLIGATION to either scenario. It does suck that they (the Feds) arbitrarily chose one over the other, but this fact absolutely does NOT relieve LA from it's responsibilities to maintain it's own infrastructure. Blaming Bush and Co for he failures of LA is plain old fashioned dumb. It's like blaming the Russians for Solar Flares.

The facts are FEMA mucked it up. Bush could have turned his approval ratings around, but he mucked it up. Live with it, because that's the way it is.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
The facts are FEMA mucked it up. Bush could have turned his approval ratings around, but he mucked it up. Live with it, because that's the way it is.

...Only in someone's diluted, warped little mind. :p
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Originally posted by: Pabster

There is plenty of blame to go around, from FEMA right on down to Mayor Nagin. But now isn't the time for that...

I kind of think it is, to the extent that we're not even into the heart of hurricane season. It seems to me we'd be well-served to deep-six Brown and Chertoff now, and replace them with people with actual qualifications.