The Big 3 Failed. UAW is a joke.

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: TehMac
The Republicans, if you might recall, were also very much against the bailout. It wasn't until after they realized people wanted it, they conceded to vote for it.

Actually, the vast majority of people never wanted any of the bailouts. The politicians voted for it anyway because they're all weasels, regardless of party. I wonder how much of that bailout money is being rolled around into campaign contributions.

I don't know where you live and where you hear you stuff from, but around here, alot of people wanted the bailout, and alot of people didn't. It was hard to really see what was going on. On Day 1 in September, the bailout failed, and stocks plummeted. I suppose policy makers shook in their boots and decided they'd get voted out if they didn't support the new bill.

 

[chucky2]

The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: TehMac
The Republicans, if you might recall, were also very much against the bailout. It wasn't until after they realized people wanted it, they conceded to vote for it.

Actually, the vast majority of people never wanted any of the bailouts. The politicians voted for it anyway because they're all weasels, regardless of party. I wonder how much of that bailout money is being rolled around into campaign contributions.

I don't know where you live and where you hear you stuff from, but around here, alot of people wanted the bailout, and alot of people didn't. It was hard to really see what was going on. On Day 1 in September, the bailout failed, and stocks plummeted. I suppose policy makers shook in their boots and decided they'd get voted out if they didn't support the new bill.

Wall street wanted the bailout, they spoke with stocks until they got it.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

I prefer that they are compensated fairly for the job that they do. In the current economy, automakers should be able to fire workers and lower their wages if necessary to survive. The union doesn't allow that. Everyone has to make sacrifices, even the little guys. Granted, I would like to see the upper management make some cuts too and be paid a bit more fairly but there's already provisions for that. All that is holding things up are stubborn union guys who are probably getting paid 6 figures right now anyway.

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

The grandfathered UAW workers should not be paid a total compensation (wages+benefits) of $75/hr compared to $45/hr of foreign plants.

The average total compensation of a UAW worker is more than the average of a university professor. When the skill required for your job is not any more difficult than flipping burgers, you should not be paid any more than flipping burgers.

No, you cannot afford to raise a family flipping burgers. But you are not entitled to a living wage in a capitalist economy, you earn whatever the market dictates your skills are worth. By having unions that monopolizes the labor market, it creates a highly uncompetitive atmosphere for the domestic automakers to operate in.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

The grandfathered UAW workers should not be paid a total compensation (wages+benefits) of $75/hr compared to $45/hr of foreign plants.

The average total compensation of a UAW worker is more than the average of a university professor. When the skill required for your job is not any more difficult than flipping burgers, you should not be paid any more than flipping burgers.

No, you cannot afford to raise a family flipping burgers. But you are not entitled to a living wage in a capitalist economy, you earn whatever the market dictates your skills are worth. By having unions that monopolizes the labor market, it creates a highly uncompetitive atmosphere for the domestic automakers to operate in.

And the execs shouldn't be paid 9+ mil a year when their counterparts at Japanese companies are paid 900k

 

[LordMorpheus]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

The grandfathered UAW workers should not be paid a total compensation (wages+benefits) of $75/hr compared to $45/hr of foreign plants.

The average total compensation of a UAW worker is more than the average of a university professor. When the skill required for your job is not any more difficult than flipping burgers, you should not be paid any more than flipping burgers.

No, you cannot afford to raise a family flipping burgers. But you are not entitled to a living wage in a capitalist economy, you earn whatever the market dictates your skills are worth. By having unions that monopolizes the labor market, it creates a highly uncompetitive atmosphere for the domestic automakers to operate in.

And the execs shouldn't be paid 9+ mil a year when their counterparts at Japanese companies are paid 900k

The difference is the company decides to compensate it's execs at 9 mil a year, they aren't forced to hire the moron with seniority from the union and give him 9 mil a year.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

I prefer that they are compensated fairly for the job that they do. In the current economy, automakers should be able to fire workers and lower their wages if necessary to survive. The union doesn't allow that. Everyone has to make sacrifices, even the little guys. Granted, I would like to see the upper management make some cuts too and be paid a bit more fairly but there's already provisions for that. All that is holding things up are stubborn union guys who are probably getting paid 6 figures right now anyway.

They are compensated fairly for the job they do. Busting your @ss on the line in a freezing or frying factory, performing the same monotonous job over and over, isn't the same as sitting on our @ss in an air conditioned/heated office clicking on a mouse and joking with your co-workers over $8 a cup Starbucks coffees. If you want to go that route, lets take all the IT jobs and outsource them over to Manila, India, and China...since we can get about 8 of them for every 1 of us (and Yes, that's accurate). Sound good? How about we just outsource all our jobs to the lowest common denominator, which is oversees. Then, when 99.99999% of the country is living on government subsistance, and the rich Corp. exec's are the only ones that are making money, maybe you'll be satisfied, Right? I mean, afterall, we'll be compensated "fairly", which just means whatever Management feels they want to pay US workers for work they can get offshore to do for us. Need in-country help? No problem!!! Hire illegal Mexicans who'll do the job for 1/4 of what someone here will do it for. Sounds like a great plan!!!

Let me repeat this, again: The UAW has already made contract over contract sacrifices. Repeat that again and again to yourselves each time you think the UAW workers are sitting there laughing making 6 figures - because they aren't...not even remotely close.

The lack of real world education is staggering sometimes...

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

The grandfathered UAW workers should not be paid a total compensation (wages+benefits) of $75/hr compared to $45/hr of foreign plants.

Why not? Is not that the contract they're under? Can we take the grandfathered Exec's and take back their exorbitanty salaries and bonus's? No? So why are you rushing to F the little man making $60k/yr who has to bust his @ss for it?

The average total compensation of a UAW worker is more than the average of a university professor.

Not even remotely close, the university professors have total packages that are more, for doing far far far far far - repeat that many times - less. And, even if it is, the average university professor does jack sh1t. The average UAW workers does sh1t all day long, that's their job.

When the skill required for your job is not any more difficult than flipping burgers, you should not be paid any more than flipping burgers.

For some jobs, the skill might be that difficult. However, you're required to do it perfect each time. And that each time is 450-550 times a day, continuously. Just a slightly different scenario than the one you paint, huh? For the rest of the jobs, as your torquing your body one way, and then another, you're busting your @ss. Call me, oh, say, knowledgeable in the matter (since I've, gasp, actually worked on a modern assembly line), but I've got to @ssume from reading your post here that you have absoFinglutely no clue what you're talking about.

No, you cannot afford to raise a family flipping burgers. But you are not entitled to a living wage in a capitalist economy, you earn whatever the market dictates your skills are worth. By having unions that monopolizes the labor market, it creates a highly uncompetitive atmosphere for the domestic automakers to operate in.

Hey, capitalist. When they take your job, and any other possible job you could possibly do, and send it overseas' - because in a capitalistic economy, you aren't entitled to sh1t! - come on back here and read your posts again. I have a feeling you won't be so quick to embrace Corp. and these "capitalistic" theories folks like you so enjoy touting.

Chuck

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

The grandfathered UAW workers should not be paid a total compensation (wages+benefits) of $75/hr compared to $45/hr of foreign plants.

Why not? Is not that the contract they're under? Can we take the grandfathered Exec's and take back their exorbitanty salaries and bonus's? No? So why are you rushing to F the little man making $60k/yr who has to bust his @ss for it?

The average total compensation of a UAW worker is more than the average of a university professor.

Not even remotely close, the university professors have total packages that are more, for doing far far far far far - repeat that many times - less. And, even if it is, the average university professor does jack sh1t. The average UAW workers does sh1t all day long, that's their job.

When the skill required for your job is not any more difficult than flipping burgers, you should not be paid any more than flipping burgers.

For some jobs, the skill might be that difficult. However, you're required to do it perfect each time. And that each time is 450-550 times a day, continuously. Just a slightly different scenario than the one you paint, huh? For the rest of the jobs, as your torquing your body one way, and then another, you're busting your @ss. Call me, oh, say, knowledgeable in the matter (since I've, gasp, actually worked on a modern assembly line), but I've got to @ssume from reading your post here that you have absoFinglutely no clue what you're talking about.

No, you cannot afford to raise a family flipping burgers. But you are not entitled to a living wage in a capitalist economy, you earn whatever the market dictates your skills are worth. By having unions that monopolizes the labor market, it creates a highly uncompetitive atmosphere for the domestic automakers to operate in.

Hey, capitalist. When they take your job, and any other possible job you could possibly do, and send it overseas' - because in a capitalistic economy, you aren't entitled to sh1t! - come on back here and read your posts again. I have a feeling you won't be so quick to embrace Corp. and these "capitalistic" theories folks like you so enjoy touting.

Chuck

You had me there when you said an assembly line worker does more than than a college professor. By your logic, the average assembly line worker probably does more work than Einstein. Physical work is not the only form of work output.

You are the typical spoiled union assembly line worker thinking they deserve a good living wage just because you live in America. Whoop dee fucking doo, you have to do the same routine 500 times a day. There are other jobs out there that pays a higher wage and requires less physical labor. If you have the skills to do those jobs, then take it. If not, then shut up. I can hire any Mexican to do your job without all the complaining and the bitching.

Unlike you, instead of whining about outsourcing all day, I keep bettering my skills during my career to make sure I stay competitive to a foreign worker. Is there a chance that my job will be outsourced? Absolutely. Do I whine and bitch about it all day? No. I realize I am not entitled to shit in this world, if I can't compete with others, then I don't eat.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

The grandfathered UAW workers should not be paid a total compensation (wages+benefits) of $75/hr compared to $45/hr of foreign plants.

The average total compensation of a UAW worker is more than the average of a university professor. When the skill required for your job is not any more difficult than flipping burgers, you should not be paid any more than flipping burgers.

No, you cannot afford to raise a family flipping burgers. But you are not entitled to a living wage in a capitalist economy, you earn whatever the market dictates your skills are worth. By having unions that monopolizes the labor market, it creates a highly uncompetitive atmosphere for the domestic automakers to operate in.

And the execs shouldn't be paid 9+ mil a year when their counterparts at Japanese companies are paid 900k

The difference is the company decides to compensate it's execs at 9 mil a year, they aren't forced to hire the moron with seniority from the union and give him 9 mil a year.

Really? CEOs aren't plucked from other companies' top execs, each deciding each other's salaries and bonus packages -- hoping one day they will be the next Bob Nardelli?

It's such a load of crap. you hear it over and over again. "The company decided" or "the shareholders voted." Let's cut the bullshit. It's executives and institutions, filled with people who want those jobs, who are agreeing to it. I don't see how the current executive system is any different than a seniority based system you find in a union.

And people need to stop going after current UAW employees. Yes, they still have plenty under the old contracts, but the new one does cut pay below the industry average and they are getting less benefits. It's the legacy workers that are hitting them. It's the 500,000+ retirees, not the guy who just got hired. But it's people like Senator Corker who want to go after the guy who just got hired; the guy who will never make what former employees made.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

The grandfathered UAW workers should not be paid a total compensation (wages+benefits) of $75/hr compared to $45/hr of foreign plants.

Why not? Is not that the contract they're under? Can we take the grandfathered Exec's and take back their exorbitanty salaries and bonus's? No? So why are you rushing to F the little man making $60k/yr who has to bust his @ss for it?

The average total compensation of a UAW worker is more than the average of a university professor.

Not even remotely close, the university professors have total packages that are more, for doing far far far far far - repeat that many times - less. And, even if it is, the average university professor does jack sh1t. The average UAW workers does sh1t all day long, that's their job.

When the skill required for your job is not any more difficult than flipping burgers, you should not be paid any more than flipping burgers.

For some jobs, the skill might be that difficult. However, you're required to do it perfect each time. And that each time is 450-550 times a day, continuously. Just a slightly different scenario than the one you paint, huh? For the rest of the jobs, as your torquing your body one way, and then another, you're busting your @ss. Call me, oh, say, knowledgeable in the matter (since I've, gasp, actually worked on a modern assembly line), but I've got to @ssume from reading your post here that you have absoFinglutely no clue what you're talking about.

No, you cannot afford to raise a family flipping burgers. But you are not entitled to a living wage in a capitalist economy, you earn whatever the market dictates your skills are worth. By having unions that monopolizes the labor market, it creates a highly uncompetitive atmosphere for the domestic automakers to operate in.

Hey, capitalist. When they take your job, and any other possible job you could possibly do, and send it overseas' - because in a capitalistic economy, you aren't entitled to sh1t! - come on back here and read your posts again. I have a feeling you won't be so quick to embrace Corp. and these "capitalistic" theories folks like you so enjoy touting.

Chuck

You had me there when you said an assembly line worker does more than than a college professor. By your logic, the average assembly line worker probably does more work than Einstein. Physical work is not the only form of work output.

You are the typical spoiled union assembly line worker thinking they deserve a good living wage just because you live in America. Whoop dee fucking doo, you have to do the same routine 500 times a day. There are other jobs out there that pays a higher wage and requires less physical labor. If you have the skills to do those jobs, then take it. If not, then shut up. I can hire any Mexican to do your job without all the complaining and the bitching.

Unlike you, instead of whining about outsourcing all day, I keep bettering my skills during my career to make sure I stay competitive to a foreign worker. Is there a chance that my job will be outsourced? Absolutely. Do I whine and bitch about it all day? No. I realize I am not entitled to shit in this world, if I can't compete with others, then I don't eat.

1.) Having a BA from a university, I can without a doubt say the average professor, relative to the average UAW worker, is vastly overpaid for their work. Rehashing the same material year over year, waxing on about BS, and getting TA's to do half your work is not work, not is it value.

2.) It's clear you've never actually been in a factory, so essentially you're completely talking out your @ss.

3.) I have worked on a modern UAW assembly line, so I actually have some F'ing clue what I'm talking about.

4.) I'm a Management employee in a multi-$Billion Corp., not a UAW worker. Whoops!

5.) I could find any number of offshore workers to do your job as good, or better, than you for 1/8th of the cost. Since you're so passionate about it, why don't you go suggest to your boss that they do that, since, you know, you're so willing for "capitalism" to run so free.

6.) You have no macro reality idea of what you're talking about. None.

Then end.

Chuck

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Kroze
waa! this is our country..waa!!! cry some more.
waaa!! waaa!!! you didn't buy american, waaa!!!

I have decided that you annoy me.

I could care less about the point you're trying to make, you're just annoying.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: chucky2
1.) Having a BA from a university, I can without a doubt say the average professor, relative to the average UAW worker, is vastly overpaid for their work. Rehashing the same material year over year, waxing on about BS, and getting TA's to do half your work is not work, not is it value.

2.) It's clear you've never actually been in a factory, so essentially you're completely talking out your @ss.

3.) I have worked on a modern UAW assembly line, so I actually have some F'ing clue what I'm talking about.

4.) I'm a Management employee in a multi-$Billion Corp., not a UAW worker. Whoops!

5.) I could find any number of offshore workers to do your job as good, or better, than you for 1/8th of the cost. Since you're so passionate about it, why don't you go suggest to your boss that they do that, since, you know, you're so willing for "capitalism" to run so free.

6.) You have no macro reality idea of what you're talking about. None.

Then end.

Chuck

you can say the prof gets overpaid all you want. the fact of the matter is though, that there are only so many people who can and will get PhD's to be a professor and learn very specific knowledge. on the other hand, you are quite replaceable as an assembly line worker.

edit: did it even occur to you that professors do research? they are advancing the state of the art, advancing what we know about the world around us. you let me know how many assembly line workers start coming up with solutions for three dimensional, time dependent fluid flow that satisfy the navier-stokes equations.

this isn't to put down any workers. it's simply supply and demand. the professor is more valuable because of his knowledge and the fact that there are simply not many of them. hence, the prof gets paid more, even if he does "less work."

this is reality, even if you don't like it.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

edit: did it even occur to you that professors do research? they are advancing the state of the art, advancing what we know about the world around us. you let me know how many assembly line workers start coming up with solutions for three dimensional, time dependent fluid flow that satisfy the navier-stokes equations.

Professor doesn't equal working in the hard sciences. A communications professors or English lit professor is really advancing the state of the art and bettering our lives through their research :roll:

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

edit: did it even occur to you that professors do research? they are advancing the state of the art, advancing what we know about the world around us. you let me know how many assembly line workers start coming up with solutions for three dimensional, time dependent fluid flow that satisfy the navier-stokes equations.

Professor doesn't equal working in the hard sciences. A communications professors or English lit professor is really advancing the state of the art and bettering our lives through their research :roll:

that's true, english prof != engineering prof. regardless, society places some extra value on their skills or knowledge that allows them to get paid more.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: chucky2
1.) Having a BA from a university, I can without a doubt say the average professor, relative to the average UAW worker, is vastly overpaid for their work. Rehashing the same material year over year, waxing on about BS, and getting TA's to do half your work is not work, not is it value.

2.) It's clear you've never actually been in a factory, so essentially you're completely talking out your @ss.

3.) I have worked on a modern UAW assembly line, so I actually have some F'ing clue what I'm talking about.

4.) I'm a Management employee in a multi-$Billion Corp., not a UAW worker. Whoops!

5.) I could find any number of offshore workers to do your job as good, or better, than you for 1/8th of the cost. Since you're so passionate about it, why don't you go suggest to your boss that they do that, since, you know, you're so willing for "capitalism" to run so free.

6.) You have no macro reality idea of what you're talking about. None.

Then end.

Chuck

you can say the prof gets overpaid all you want. the fact of the matter is though, that there are only so many people who can and will get PhD's to be a professor and learn very specific knowledge. on the other hand, you are quite replaceable as an assembly line worker.

edit: did it even occur to you that professors do research? they are advancing the state of the art, advancing what we know about the world around us. you let me know how many assembly line workers start coming up with solutions for three dimensional, time dependent fluid flow that satisfy the navier-stokes equations.

this isn't to put down any workers. it's simply supply and demand. the professor is more valuable because of his knowledge and the fact that there are simply not many of them. hence, the prof gets paid more, even if he does "less work."

this is reality, even if you don't like it.

Anyone can be a PhD, all they have to do is have the luxury of spending the time, and having the money, to do so. There are many millions in this country who don't have either luxury, let alone one of them. I supposed we should regulate these undesirables to working for minumum wage, which is the lowest legal wage we can unfortunately pay them here in this country (at least, the ones lucky enough to get jobs, after we offshore/illegal alien, everything else), even though it'll be 2-5x higher than what the slave workers "our" Corp. will employ unhindered (as many largely do now).

Next time we fight a world war, probably with China and/or Russia, let me know how good those PhD's are at getting their hands dirty and cranking out product to combat the Billion or two sized armies we'll be competing with. I'm sure I want to see how that goes.....

Chuck

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

edit: did it even occur to you that professors do research? they are advancing the state of the art, advancing what we know about the world around us. you let me know how many assembly line workers start coming up with solutions for three dimensional, time dependent fluid flow that satisfy the navier-stokes equations.

Professor doesn't equal working in the hard sciences. A communications professors or English lit professor is really advancing the state of the art and bettering our lives through their research :roll:

that's true, english prof != engineering prof. regardless, society places some extra value on their skills or knowledge that allows them to get paid more.

While I believe that education is a great thing I think that we're overproducing some higher education and not producing enough skilled laborers. Electricians, plumbers, and tons of other skills are 'manual' jobs but require a good amount of learning to do well. Somehow that professor at the community college that puts zero effort into what he does is more important than the plumber that shows up at 2:00 in the morning because you had a pipe burst. Which one really improves your live more?

I'm tired of some people that work with their hands aren't really contributing. I work in aerospace engineering but if I don't have a good person putting together the engine I designed it's worthless. Yeah, it doesn't take a college degree to follow directions and turn wrenches but there's a big difference between somebody who's good at it and somebody who's not.

I agree that some of the things the American auto workers have gotten in the past for compensation have been pretty ridiculous but saying they should all be making extremely low wages because they're less skilled and work with their hands is ridiculous. Somebody that's willing to go to work and work hard every day deserves to be able to make enough to survive. This obviously isn't $75 an hour but starting at ~$14-15 an hour and going up from there seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

The grandfathered UAW workers should not be paid a total compensation (wages+benefits) of $75/hr compared to $45/hr of foreign plants.

Why not? Is not that the contract they're under? Can we take the grandfathered Exec's and take back their exorbitanty salaries and bonus's? No? So why are you rushing to F the little man making $60k/yr who has to bust his @ss for it?

The average total compensation of a UAW worker is more than the average of a university professor.

Not even remotely close, the university professors have total packages that are more, for doing far far far far far - repeat that many times - less. And, even if it is, the average university professor does jack sh1t. The average UAW workers does sh1t all day long, that's their job.

When the skill required for your job is not any more difficult than flipping burgers, you should not be paid any more than flipping burgers.

For some jobs, the skill might be that difficult. However, you're required to do it perfect each time. And that each time is 450-550 times a day, continuously. Just a slightly different scenario than the one you paint, huh? For the rest of the jobs, as your torquing your body one way, and then another, you're busting your @ss. Call me, oh, say, knowledgeable in the matter (since I've, gasp, actually worked on a modern assembly line), but I've got to @ssume from reading your post here that you have absoFinglutely no clue what you're talking about.

No, you cannot afford to raise a family flipping burgers. But you are not entitled to a living wage in a capitalist economy, you earn whatever the market dictates your skills are worth. By having unions that monopolizes the labor market, it creates a highly uncompetitive atmosphere for the domestic automakers to operate in.

Hey, capitalist. When they take your job, and any other possible job you could possibly do, and send it overseas' - because in a capitalistic economy, you aren't entitled to sh1t! - come on back here and read your posts again. I have a feeling you won't be so quick to embrace Corp. and these "capitalistic" theories folks like you so enjoy touting.

Chuck

You had me there when you said an assembly line worker does more than than a college professor. By your logic, the average assembly line worker probably does more work than Einstein. Physical work is not the only form of work output.

You are the typical spoiled union assembly line worker thinking they deserve a good living wage just because you live in America. Whoop dee fucking doo, you have to do the same routine 500 times a day. There are other jobs out there that pays a higher wage and requires less physical labor. If you have the skills to do those jobs, then take it. If not, then shut up. I can hire any Mexican to do your job without all the complaining and the bitching.

Unlike you, instead of whining about outsourcing all day, I keep bettering my skills during my career to make sure I stay competitive to a foreign worker. Is there a chance that my job will be outsourced? Absolutely. Do I whine and bitch about it all day? No. I realize I am not entitled to shit in this world, if I can't compete with others, then I don't eat.

1.) Having a BA from a university, I can without a doubt say the average professor, relative to the average UAW worker, is vastly overpaid for their work. Rehashing the same material year over year, waxing on about BS, and getting TA's to do half your work is not work, not is it value.

2.) It's clear you've never actually been in a factory, so essentially you're completely talking out your @ss.

3.) I have worked on a modern UAW assembly line, so I actually have some F'ing clue what I'm talking about.

4.) I'm a Management employee in a multi-$Billion Corp., not a UAW worker. Whoops!

5.) I could find any number of offshore workers to do your job as good, or better, than you for 1/8th of the cost. Since you're so passionate about it, why don't you go suggest to your boss that they do that, since, you know, you're so willing for "capitalism" to run so free.

6.) You have no macro reality idea of what you're talking about. None.

Then end.

Chuck

What is your BA in? Probably liberal arts or some bullshit, that is why you think your professors are worthless. Because those majors are worthless. If your had a degree that is acutally worth a damn, you wouldn't have to work in an assembly line in the first place.

Of course I have never worked in an assembly line, neither has Bill Gates or Einstein. What's your fucking point? Just because you've done assembly line work does not make you the authoritative figure to compare assembly work to jobs that requires far more skills.

My company already does outsourcing, in fact I had to train some of them from India. Why do you think I still have a job after training them? Because I am constantly aware of my environment, my competitors and my worth. If I wasn't worth the money, I would have been replaced long ago.

So stop your whining and bitching, and be thankful that you no longer work in an assembly line. Because in this information age, unskilled manual labor ain't worth a shit. America has long turned from a manufacturing based economy to an intellectual/information driven economy. The days of raising a family on an unskilled manual labor job are over.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
What is your BA in? Probably liberal arts or some bullshit, that is why you think your professors are worthless. Because those majors are worthless. If your had a degree that is acutally worth a damn, you wouldn't have to work in an assembly line in the first place.

Of course I have never worked in an assembly line, neither has Bill Gates or Einstein. What's your fucking point? Just because you've done assembly line work does not make you the authoritative figure to compare assembly work to jobs that requires far more skills.

My company already does outsourcing, in fact I had to train some of them from India. Why do you think I still have a job after training them? Because I am constantly aware of my environment, my competitors and my worth. If I wasn't worth the money, I would have been replaced long ago.

So stop your whining and bitching, and be thankful that you no longer work in an assembly line. Because in this information age, unskilled manual labor ain't worth a shit. America has long turned from a manufacturing based economy to an intellectual/information driven economy. The days of raising a family on an unskilled manual labor job are over.

Have you ever heard of a process engineer? They have a full engineering degree and work with production lines to get quality and yield up. It's not an easy job, I interviewed for a few positions in process engineering (not in automotive though) and they actually paid higher than my current position in turbine engine design. Just because somebody works on an assembly line doesn't mean that they aren't educated.

Also, you say you have never worked on an assembly line. That pretty much discounts everything you say. If you've never done it how do you have any clue what they do there? It's not just pushing buttons and you can't just do it with a brainless moron. You say that working on assembly line doesn't allow the other poster to talk about other jobs that aren't related. I think the reverse is true also. You've never worked on or around an assembly line so you don't really have a clue what you're talking about.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

I agree that some of the things the American auto workers have gotten in the past for compensation have been pretty ridiculous but saying they should all be making extremely low wages because they're less skilled and work with their hands is ridiculous. Somebody that's willing to go to work and work hard every day deserves to be able to make enough to survive. This obviously isn't $75 an hour but starting at ~$14-15 an hour and going up from there seems pretty reasonable to me.

agreed.

i wasn't trying to debate what assembly line workers should get paid. i just wanted to refute chucky's "professors do nothing and shouldn't get paid" lines.

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
What is your BA in? Probably liberal arts or some bullshit, that is why you think your professors are worthless. Because those majors are worthless. If your had a degree that is acutally worth a damn, you wouldn't have to work in an assembly line in the first place.

Of course I have never worked in an assembly line, neither has Bill Gates or Einstein. What's your fucking point? Just because you've done assembly line work does not make you the authoritative figure to compare assembly work to jobs that requires far more skills.

My company already does outsourcing, in fact I had to train some of them from India. Why do you think I still have a job after training them? Because I am constantly aware of my environment, my competitors and my worth. If I wasn't worth the money, I would have been replaced long ago.

So stop your whining and bitching, and be thankful that you no longer work in an assembly line. Because in this information age, unskilled manual labor ain't worth a shit. America has long turned from a manufacturing based economy to an intellectual/information driven economy. The days of raising a family on an unskilled manual labor job are over.

Have you ever heard of a process engineer? They have a full engineering degree and work with production lines to get quality and yield up. It's not an easy job, I interviewed for a few positions in process engineering (not in automotive though) and they actually paid higher than my current position in turbine engine design. Just because somebody works on an assembly line doesn't mean that they aren't educated.

Also, you say you have never worked on an assembly line. That pretty much discounts everything you say. If you've never done it how do you have any clue what they do there? It's not just pushing buttons and you can't just do it with a brainless moron. You say that working on assembly line doesn't allow the other poster to talk about other jobs that aren't related. I think the reverse is true also. You've never worked on or around an assembly line so you don't really have a clue what you're talking about.

Okay, I am sure 95 percent of assembly line workers are "Process Engineers". Uh huh.
Any skilled labor on an assembly line is an outlier, not the trend. Nobody is bitching about skilled labor getting paid the amount they get paid. We are talking about unskilled labor on the assembly line here, and don't even try to argue that every assembly line job is considered skilled labor, most aren't.

I am pretty sure a university professor (even liberal art ones) is worth more to the society than an unskilled assembly line worker, even though I am not a professor nor have I worked in an assembly line. In fact, the ones that aren't involved with either side sees it the clearest, with a neutral reference point. Because you are likely to tie your emotion or pride into your past or present jobs when making an argument. Some of you are putting so much value emphasis on the physical labor that you are comparing the worth of a desk job based on the amount of physical labor is involved in it, which is a ridiculous comparison.

There is a reason that some jobs requires only a high school diploma and some jobs requires a PhD. There is a reason PhD takes at least 8-10 years of additional education beyond high school. There is a reason the society is being controlled by the higher educated. There is a reason that people who designed the car you are assembling went to college, and you are merely assembling it. Yet the legacy assembly workers makes similar to the salaried workers that actually designed the damn thing due to UAW labor monopolization.

Yeah, I'll just tell today's kids get a union job because why bother learning advanced math, physics, chemistry, etc. when you can just sit on an assembly line doing unskilled repetitious work and get paid just the same. That is pretty much what communism is, a janitor is worth the same to the society as a doctor.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04


Okay, I am sure 95 percent of assembly line workers are "Process Engineers". Uh huh.
Any skilled labor on an assembly line is an outlier, not the trend. Nobody is bitching about skilled labor getting paid the amount they get paid. We are talking about unskilled labor on the assembly line here, and don't even try to argue that every assembly line job is considered skilled labor, most aren't.

I am pretty sure a university professor (even liberal art ones) is worth more to the society than an unskilled assembly line worker, even though I am not a professor nor have I worked in an assembly line. In fact, the ones that aren't involved with either side sees it the clearest, with a neutral reference point. Because you are likely to tie your emotion or pride into your past or present jobs when making an argument. Some of you are putting so much value emphasis on the physical labor that you are comparing the worth of a desk job based on the amount of physical labor is involved in it, which is a ridiculous comparison.

There is a reason that some jobs requires only a high school diploma and some jobs requires a PhD. There is a reason PhD takes at least 8-10 years of additional education beyond high school. There is a reason the society is being controlled by the higher educated. There is a reason that people who designed the car you are assembling went to college, and you are merely assembling it. Yet the legacy assembly workers makes similar to the salaried workers that actually designed the damn thing due to UAW labor monopolization.

Yeah, I'll just tell today's kids get a union job because why bother learning advanced math, physics, chemistry, etc. when you can just sit on an assembly line doing unskilled repetitious work and get paid just the same. That is pretty much what communism is, a janitor is worth the same to the society as a doctor.

I never said that most were process engineers, you just seem to have the idea that anyone involved in assembly is some sort of idiot that can barely tie his own shoes. You also seem to miss the point that many other foreign car companies make cars here and pay living wages. There's a difference between what the UAW has been pushing and a living wage. Why do the foreign car companies make vehicles here? Because it's cheaper and the workforce can make good cars. Toyota could easily make their vehicles in Mexico and ship them up to the US but they don't. If it saved them so much money to use the cheapest warm bodies to fill the spaces that they could find they would. They see monetary value in getting a certain kind of worker.

I'm not saying that someone in manual labor should get paid the same as someone who invested the time in an education but I do think they should make enough to get by. Not everyone can or should go to school. Not everyone is cut out for a desk job. If you cut out all less skilled labor you suddenly have a huge amount of people that can't find work. Saying that the should go get themselves a degree and get a different job is just ignorant. Just because somebody can't do calculus doesn't mean they aren't a good person or they aren't trying hard enough. Some people just can't do it, it's just how it is.

If you want to ship all the less skilled jobs overseas then you better be prepared to start shelling out 50% or more of your paycheck for welfare. If somebody is willing to work at a job every day towards supporting themselves even if they aren't the brightest bulb in the box we should make sure to have opportunities for them to do it. Otherwise, the amount of jobless rises, welfare costs increase and crime will sky rocket. No matter how you look at it we need to have jobs for people with all kinds of skills.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already is under contract for all its new hires to start at $14/hr. They already have pension and medical on their books, instead of the Big 3.

Just how much more do you want the average slob working on the line to give up???

I realize the job banks need to go - and never should have been there in the first place - however this anti-UAW/Union attitude some have is just amazingly laughable. You like not working until you drop? In not the most sh1ttiest conditions? Receiving at least close to decent pay for what you do? Have some measure of rights as a worker?

Then turn around and thank the Unions you so like to bad mouth, because they weren't there until their members bled - literally - to make a change: A change you reap the benefits of daily.

And for all those that think Management as these Corp's has changed from when the Union's bled: Go and look at the documentaries of the workers overseas where our jobs here are offshored for pennies on the dollar. Those POS Management types from yesteryear are alive and well today...they're just hiding it better.

Chuck

The grandfathered UAW workers should not be paid a total compensation (wages+benefits) of $75/hr compared to $45/hr of foreign plants.

Why not? Is not that the contract they're under? Can we take the grandfathered Exec's and take back their exorbitanty salaries and bonus's? No? So why are you rushing to F the little man making $60k/yr who has to bust his @ss for it?

The average total compensation of a UAW worker is more than the average of a university professor.

Not even remotely close, the university professors have total packages that are more, for doing far far far far far - repeat that many times - less. And, even if it is, the average university professor does jack sh1t. The average UAW workers does sh1t all day long, that's their job.

When the skill required for your job is not any more difficult than flipping burgers, you should not be paid any more than flipping burgers.

For some jobs, the skill might be that difficult. However, you're required to do it perfect each time. And that each time is 450-550 times a day, continuously. Just a slightly different scenario than the one you paint, huh? For the rest of the jobs, as your torquing your body one way, and then another, you're busting your @ss. Call me, oh, say, knowledgeable in the matter (since I've, gasp, actually worked on a modern assembly line), but I've got to @ssume from reading your post here that you have absoFinglutely no clue what you're talking about.

No, you cannot afford to raise a family flipping burgers. But you are not entitled to a living wage in a capitalist economy, you earn whatever the market dictates your skills are worth. By having unions that monopolizes the labor market, it creates a highly uncompetitive atmosphere for the domestic automakers to operate in.

Hey, capitalist. When they take your job, and any other possible job you could possibly do, and send it overseas' - because in a capitalistic economy, you aren't entitled to sh1t! - come on back here and read your posts again. I have a feeling you won't be so quick to embrace Corp. and these "capitalistic" theories folks like you so enjoy touting.

Chuck

You had me there when you said an assembly line worker does more than than a college professor. By your logic, the average assembly line worker probably does more work than Einstein. Physical work is not the only form of work output.

You are the typical spoiled union assembly line worker thinking they deserve a good living wage just because you live in America. Whoop dee fucking doo, you have to do the same routine 500 times a day. There are other jobs out there that pays a higher wage and requires less physical labor. If you have the skills to do those jobs, then take it. If not, then shut up. I can hire any Mexican to do your job without all the complaining and the bitching.

Unlike you, instead of whining about outsourcing all day, I keep bettering my skills during my career to make sure I stay competitive to a foreign worker. Is there a chance that my job will be outsourced? Absolutely. Do I whine and bitch about it all day? No. I realize I am not entitled to shit in this world, if I can't compete with others, then I don't eat.

1.) Having a BA from a university, I can without a doubt say the average professor, relative to the average UAW worker, is vastly overpaid for their work. Rehashing the same material year over year, waxing on about BS, and getting TA's to do half your work is not work, not is it value.

2.) It's clear you've never actually been in a factory, so essentially you're completely talking out your @ss.

3.) I have worked on a modern UAW assembly line, so I actually have some F'ing clue what I'm talking about.

4.) I'm a Management employee in a multi-$Billion Corp., not a UAW worker. Whoops!

5.) I could find any number of offshore workers to do your job as good, or better, than you for 1/8th of the cost. Since you're so passionate about it, why don't you go suggest to your boss that they do that, since, you know, you're so willing for "capitalism" to run so free.

6.) You have no macro reality idea of what you're talking about. None.

Then end.

Chuck

What is your BA in? Probably liberal arts or some bullshit, that is why you think your professors are worthless. Because those majors are worthless. If your had a degree that is acutally worth a damn, you wouldn't have to work in an assembly line in the first place.

Of course I have never worked in an assembly line, neither has Bill Gates or Einstein. What's your fucking point? Just because you've done assembly line work does not make you the authoritative figure to compare assembly work to jobs that requires far more skills.

My company already does outsourcing, in fact I had to train some of them from India. Why do you think I still have a job after training them? Because I am constantly aware of my environment, my competitors and my worth. If I wasn't worth the money, I would have been replaced long ago.

So stop your whining and bitching, and be thankful that you no longer work in an assembly line. Because in this information age, unskilled manual labor ain't worth a shit. America has long turned from a manufacturing based economy to an intellectual/information driven economy. The days of raising a family on an unskilled manual labor job are over.

My BA is in IT. My AAS is in IT. I put myself through 4 years of nightschool working an almost minimum wage job so I could get that BA - so don't sit here and try to lecture me on value of professors or some other such BS.

You've never worked on a assembly line? You've never seen what those super duper smart BA and up having Management folks do in those same plants? You've never busted your @ss day in and day out?

You sound to me like some little know it all Mommy and Daddy sent their kid to college, where he got indoctrinated by his super duper smart professors - who are all protected by tenure, all the while doing basically nothing, go figure - on why Unions are so bad for our nation.

You essentially have, zero, clue of what you talk about. None. Zilch. Nada.

Answer me this oh uber smart almighty PhD educated person: When you've got rid of all the manufacturing in this country (why pay minimum wage here, when you can send it over to Mexico/oversea's for so much less!), got rid of all the textiles industry (whoops!! sorry about that one, that's already gone...for pennies on those tax dollars), got rid of all infinitely important PhD's (why, we can use "capitalism" with them too! Importing PhD's from other countries, who'll work for far less, sounds outstanding to me!), got rid of all engineers ("capitalism" again! Why pay a US engineer when I can get as good or better from India???), got rid of all our Dr.'s (wait! That's already happening...good mental reminder, I need to make an appt. with Dr. Babu so I can get my knee checked out), got rid of everything possible that can be done by anyone cheaper.....

...tell me, oh wonderous smart guy: Just WhoTF, from this country, is going to have a job here???? You know, a job where you can actually support a family of 4 on? Oh, OK, well, a job where your wife and you must both work if you want to be above the poverty line?

Why do you want to stop at manual labor workers as where "capitalism" must be used? I say, if you want to do that (and F some guy busting his @ss making $60k a year ((and that's what they bring home, around $60k/yr, providing no OT))), lets go all the way!!! Yippie!!!

Lets do it for every job in this country!!!! Dr.'s, PhD's, Corp. Exec's, teachers, labor workers, service workers, accountants, lawyers, etc. That way, we can live in your utopia where "capitalism" has run its course. Where each and every job is performed by the absolute lowest bidder....god, that sounds so perfect!!!

Tell you what, since you're so brave enough to want to F little guys: March right into work on Monday, tell your boss this: Boss, I want to compete with the absolute lowest wage person you can scrape up to perform my job tasks. I'll help you find him/her, they'll most likely be foreign, but, that's OK!!! We need to have the absolute lowest bidder doing my job, because, that's Capitalism!!! And only the lowest bidder should be doing my job!!! Please, either pay me far less money and benefits than I'm making right now, or, fire me and hire someone who will!!!

Let us know how that works out. Idoicy...

Chuck

 

[SparkyJJO]

UAW is to blame. CEOs are to blame too. It isn't just one or the other folks, BOTH are at fault, so don't try and pin it on just one or the other.