The Big 3 Failed. UAW is a joke.

Kroze

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2001
4,052
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As a condition for the Bail Out, they (the UAW) refused to lower their pay to be more in line with the Japanese automakers. LOL.

Unions are a joke. They rather lose their jobs & have GM, Ford, Chrysler go bankrupt than taking a pay cut that's more in line with what the japanese automakers pay their employees.

At the same time, they're blaming everyone else but themselves.

waa! this is our country..waa!!! cry some more.
waaa!! waaa!!! you didn't buy american, waaa!!!
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
Originally posted by: Kroze
As a condition for the Bail Out, they (the UAW) refused to lower their pay to be more in line with the Japanese automakers. LOL.

Unions are a joke. They rather lose their jobs & have GM, Ford, Chrysler go bankrupt than taking a pay cut that's more in line with what the japanese automakers pay their employees.

At the same time, they're blaming everyone else but themselves.

waa! this is our country..waa!!! cry some more.
waaa!! waaa!!! you didn't buy american, waaa!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics...tory?id=6439796&page=1

Ford has restructured and are currently not asking for money. Negotiators have also decided that Ford will not receive funding at this point. Ford simply isn't in the trouble that GM and Chrysler is. They're not in good shape, but they they are doing things better than the other two.
 

CU

Platinum Member
Aug 14, 2000
2,409
51
91
It does have to do with Ford. Ford said if the other two go under the aftermath will probably take them with it. Also they were trying to get a line of credit just in case they needed it. Is that not still part of the deal?
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
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THEY DID LOWER THEIR PAY.

Posturing about reducing their pay further amounts to class warfare, considering that it wouldn't constitute a big decrease in costs to the big 3, and would result in them being paid less than the Japanese companies' employees.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Class warfare? That's a load of rubbish. Go to a heavy union country with lots of socialist practices, like Great Britain, and tell me there isn't a sense of class tensions.


Class warfare, give me a break. :roll:
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Class warfare? That's a load of rubbish. Go to a heavy union country with lots of socialist practices, like Great Britain, and tell me there isn't a sense of class tensions.


Class warfare, give me a break. :roll:

That's funny... someone on the radio (Diane Rehm Show) just said the same thing.

Republicans are targeting auto workers and saying that they need to take ANOTHER pay cut, as if that would somehow cure the big 3. They know that's not the case.

Did they ask for Wall Street workers to take a pay cut to get the bailout?? No. This is a clear anti-working-class double standard.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,433
204
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Pay is one thing, pensions and benefits are another, and work week hrs another.
All these things are considered compensation.
Which the UAW is way ahead of non-union american auto workers.

Its like a game of chicken the UAW is playing where they think if they stick to their guns the Fed is gonna save them . . . .
 

crosshairs

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2007
1,078
0
76
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: TehMac
Class warfare? That's a load of rubbish. Go to a heavy union country with lots of socialist practices, like Great Britain, and tell me there isn't a sense of class tensions.


Class warfare, give me a break. :roll:

That's funny... someone on the radio (Diane Rehm Show) just said the same thing.

Republicans are targeting auto workers and saying that they need to take ANOTHER pay cut, as if that would somehow cure the big 3. They know that's not the case.

Did they ask for Wall Street workers to take a pay cut to get the bailout?? No. This is a clear anti-working-class double standard.

QFT.....if any of these anti union folks would do some research,they would know that the UAW has been taking concessions for 6 years now....
Enough is enough.

the same guys that had the balls to fly in corporate jets asking for a handout are now going to blame the UAW for the failure ...give me a break.

Originally posted by: Kroze
As a condition for the Bail Out, they (the UAW) refused to lower their pay to be more in line with the Japanese automakers. LOL.

Unions are a joke. They rather lose their jobs & have GM, Ford, Chrysler go bankrupt than taking a pay cut that's more in line with what the japanese automakers pay their employees.

They are already paid about the same.....its the legacy costs that are hurting them.....pay cuts for current workers wont do anything but cause hardship for the workers....
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Those southern senators want to kill the big 3 to make more hay for the japanese companies in their states.
It's not really about UAW. They just wanted to kill the bill, and they did.
 

Gillbot

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
28,830
17
81
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
THEY DID LOWER THEIR PAY.

Posturing about reducing their pay further amounts to class warfare, considering that it wouldn't constitute a big decrease in costs to the big 3, and would result in them being paid less than the Japanese companies' employees.

:confused:

How much does a guy need to make to sit there and push buttons. I used to work for Chrysler, I have no sympathy for the unions.
 

CU

Platinum Member
Aug 14, 2000
2,409
51
91
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
THEY DID LOWER THEIR PAY.

Posturing about reducing their pay further amounts to class warfare, considering that it wouldn't constitute a big decrease in costs to the big 3, and would result in them being paid less than the Japanese companies' employees.

So what if they make less than then the Japanese companies' employees. The company's are making way less than the Japanese companies. Although the pay for everyone including all of management should be lowered also.
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,219
8
81
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: TehMac
Class warfare? That's a load of rubbish. Go to a heavy union country with lots of socialist practices, like Great Britain, and tell me there isn't a sense of class tensions.


Class warfare, give me a break. :roll:

That's funny... someone on the radio (Diane Rehm Show) just said the same thing.

Republicans are targeting auto workers and saying that they need to take ANOTHER pay cut, as if that would somehow cure the big 3. They know that's not the case.

Did they ask for Wall Street workers to take a pay cut to get the bailout?? No. This is a clear anti-working-class double standard.

We should have capped all financial industry salaries at 40k if they wanted the bailout
 

mooseracing

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2006
1,711
0
0
Originally posted by: Kroze
As a condition for the Bail Out, they (the UAW) refused to lower their pay to be more in line with the Japanese automakers. LOL.

Unions are a joke. They rather lose their jobs & have GM, Ford, Chrysler go bankrupt than taking a pay cut that's more in line with what the japanese automakers pay their employees.


Have you not seen the Japs have issues with their car companies too.....O% financing for x amount of years, Honda jumping out of F1. All the blame can't be placed on UAW.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,433
204
106
True, but they A are still profitable and B have large cash reserves if things get crappier.
The US companies have burned up their reserves
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,219
8
81
Originally posted by: desy
True, but they A are still profitable and B have large cash reserves if things get crappier.
The US companies have burned up their reserves

Yea, the US companies stupidly pushed most of their chips into SUV's and large vehicles, because everyone was buying them. Some bad management, poor decisions(hummer wtf?) and now they are turning around but already spent all their cash.

We are also probably the least nationalistic nation when it comes to buying our own cars.
 
Jun 18, 2000
11,122
698
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Originally posted by: Turin39789
Originally posted by: desy
True, but they A are still profitable and B have large cash reserves if things get crappier.
The US companies have burned up their reserves

Yea, the US companies stupidly pushed most of their chips into SUV's and large vehicles, because everyone was buying them. Some bad management, poor decisions(hummer wtf?) and now they are turning around but already spent all their cash.

We are also probably the least nationalistic nation when it comes to buying our own cars.
Why is it stupid for U.S. companies to invest in trucks when people are buying them in droves? Especially when their small cars were uncompetitive and unprofitable in the market due to labor contracts.

edit: I'd like to add, when you're making money on large trucks and the company as a whole is profitable, how the hell do you expect domestics to get concessions out of the UAW?
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: TehMac
Class warfare? That's a load of rubbish. Go to a heavy union country with lots of socialist practices, like Great Britain, and tell me there isn't a sense of class tensions.


Class warfare, give me a break. :roll:

That's funny... someone on the radio (Diane Rehm Show) just said the same thing.

Republicans are targeting auto workers and saying that they need to take ANOTHER pay cut, as if that would somehow cure the big 3. They know that's not the case.

Did they ask for Wall Street workers to take a pay cut to get the bailout?? No. This is a clear anti-working-class double standard.

The Republicans, if you might recall, were also very much against the bailout. It wasn't until after they realized people wanted it, they conceded to vote for it.

Quite a few democrats were against the bank bailouts as well for similar free market reasons.

If anyone is employing a double standard, it is yourself.


Originally posted by: senseamp
Those southern senators want to kill the big 3 to make more hay for the japanese companies in their states.
It's not really about UAW. They just wanted to kill the bill, and they did.

Southern states also have no unions. Which is why the Japanese (and Germans) have factories there. There is no such thing as an "American Auto Industry." An American industry worker could work at either Chrysler or BMW and still be in Alabama.

Only difference between the "American Auto Industry" and "Foreign" industry is that the Foreigners have competent management and aren't raped by outrageous union demands.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
106
The major concessions UAW people need to make is in regards to work practices and job training. ALL provisions that dictate what jobs, or how many different jobs a worker can do, should be dropped. Seniority provisions should be thrown out the window. This completely stifles the companies ability to improve workplace and process efficiency.
 

bruceb

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2004
8,874
111
106
It is not only no unions in the south, but also a generally lower cost of operating. Such as for electric, natural gas, fuel oil, heating / ac costs for the buildings. As to concessions from the UAW, yes, in this case they should make some. It is either give in a bit and still work or no work if the factories finally close (which I don't think will happen).
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
Originally posted by: Gillbot
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
THEY DID LOWER THEIR PAY.

Posturing about reducing their pay further amounts to class warfare, considering that it wouldn't constitute a big decrease in costs to the big 3, and would result in them being paid less than the Japanese companies' employees.

:confused:

How much does a guy need to make to sit there and push buttons. I used to work for Chrysler, I have no sympathy for the unions.

Nor do I have much sympathy for people who work in the service industry. Like bankers, lawyers, insurance agencies, financial and investment firms. These are the guys that now make the "big bucks" who offer nothing in the long-run of our economy. They just leech off the people who actually make a difference (doctors, scientists, small business owners, teachers, ...).

Matter of fact, most people who actually work in capital intensive industries have to take a pay cut just so the suppliers can offer a product more cheap to keep the lazy asses who work in the service industries satisfied.

A broad and over generalized statement, but a fundamental truth to what is unbalancing our economy now.
 

JDub02

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2002
6,210
1
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
The Republicans, if you might recall, were also very much against the bailout. It wasn't until after they realized people wanted it, they conceded to vote for it.

Actually, the vast majority of people never wanted any of the bailouts. The politicians voted for it anyway because they're all weasels, regardless of party. I wonder how much of that bailout money is being rolled around into campaign contributions.
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,219
8
81
Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: TehMac
The Republicans, if you might recall, were also very much against the bailout. It wasn't until after they realized people wanted it, they conceded to vote for it.

Actually, the vast majority of people never wanted any of the bailouts. The politicians voted for it anyway because they're all weasels, regardless of party. I wonder how much of that bailout money is being rolled around into campaign contributions.

Yea, I think everyone here pretty much hated the idea. Called my rep a few times.
 

Gillbot

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
28,830
17
81
Originally posted by: Regs
Originally posted by: Gillbot
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
THEY DID LOWER THEIR PAY.

Posturing about reducing their pay further amounts to class warfare, considering that it wouldn't constitute a big decrease in costs to the big 3, and would result in them being paid less than the Japanese companies' employees.

:confused:

How much does a guy need to make to sit there and push buttons. I used to work for Chrysler, I have no sympathy for the unions.

Nor do I have much sympathy for people who work in the service industry. Like bankers, lawyers, insurance agencies, financial and investment firms. These are the guys that now make the "big bucks" who offer nothing in the long-run of our economy. They just leech off the people who actually make a difference (doctors, scientists, small business owners, teachers, ...).

Matter of fact, most people who actually work in capital intensive industries have to take a pay cut just so the suppliers can offer a product more cheap to keep the lazy asses who work in the service industries satisfied.

A broad and over generalized statement, but a fundamental truth to what is unbalancing our economy now.

Agreed