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The AT World of Warcraft Thread (Where do you play) and general BS
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- Status
lupi
Lifer
A couple new notes:
Damn, just read them. Seems the arena points aren't long lasting. 🙁
State of Lake Wintergrasp
It looks like the current rewards in Lake Wintergrasp are only temporary.
Quote from: Verimonde (Source)
In response to the recent interest in Lake Wintergrasp, we?d like to take a moment to share the current developments with the zone.
As many of you have noticed, it is currently half implemented. We?re working as quickly as possible to get it into a fun and enjoyable state. To help provide better feedback for PvP testing, we?ll be temporarily providing Honor and Arena gear from a vendor in Wintergrasp. The rate at which you receive honor has been accelerated to help players gear up quickly while helping us test the zone. In addition, we are also providing Arena points during the beta for testing purposes so that players can PvP in a complete set of PvP gear.
We?ll let you know when the zone is in a completed state. Please keep in mind the current zone and reward structure are temporary.
Blue posts
Quote from Blizzard staff
BlizzCon Ticket Drawing Opt-In Period Ends
The opt-in period for the BlizzCon 2008 Ticket Drawing is now over. We will be randomly selecting winners within the next few days and will announce when selections have been made on our websites. If you are chosen, you will receive an email from Blizzard containing information about how to purchase up to two tickets to BlizzCon 2008. If you haven?t done so already, please go to Blizzard Account Management and update your contact information. For more details, see the FAQ. (Source)
Druid (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Typhoon
It's not finished, no. We're still working on the new graphic for it, and also considering a different design path for it. (Source)
Improved Moonkin Form
The plan is for it to go raid wide. Given the talents avaiable to deep Balance, I hope it's obvious that we are trying to make the Moonkin a very competitive spellcaster. Some of the concerns from BC (e.g. running out of mana, lack of AE or CC, not enough group synergy) should be aleviated by now. (Source)
Feral spec in WotLK
We do want to give Ferals who want to focus on being cats some excellent melee dps. We do want bears to be end-game tanks. We want to see serious guilds with a bear MT and a death knight OT.
What held us back from that before was that the kitty could turn around and tank almost as well (and sometimes better) than the Prot dudes who abandoned any hope of competitive dps in order to be able to tank for their guild. Clearly (I hope) a class that could do rogue-level dps and warrior-level tanking with the same talent build is the kind of thing that makes other players a little miffed.
But we're reevaluating a lot of old (and some admittedly tired) decisions for Lich King. Not only will tank-spec classes be able to do a lot higher dps (not the highest in the raid mind you, but higher), but we think it's fine for a Feral to nerf their tanking ability a little in order to go for high dps, or lower their dps a little in order to be amazing tanks.
We don't think it will take a complete overhaul of the Feral tree. To be honest, I think it's a pretty fun tree. But it will definitely take some changes to the tree you see on beta today. Imagine 5-10 talent points that significantly increase your survivability but do nothing to your dps. Take those points and you're a tank. Ignore them and you're melee dps. Take a few here and there and you are as flexible as you are today. I'm not saying that is the final or even only sollution. But that implementation gets brought up quite a bit. (Source)
Paladin (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Retribution Paladins
I meant that we can't assume Vengeance is up 100% of the time so we can't assume paladins will always have that 15% boost. Yet if we balance them without that 15% (or we try and estimate it at something like 5 or 10%), we'll start to run into trouble when paladins with lots of +crit do manage to keep it up all the time. And if it really is up all the time, is that interesting an ability anyway?
As to the death knight, we only gave them that talent to mirror the paladin one and catch a hint of the "anti-paladin" vibe. Whatever treatment Vengeance ends up, Bloody Vengeance will almost certainly get as well.
I agree there are several things driving Retribution to be bursty. To some degree, bursts can be fun. We all like seeing a crit with a big number flying up. But we'd probably all agree that there comes a point where you feel like you're just rolling a dice -- maybe I'll do crazy dps on my next few hits and maybe I won't. I think we can stabilize Retribution a little bit while still letting you see some big numbers sometime and have very competitive dps. (Source)
Priest (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Upcoming Penance Changes
Some changes to Penance are incoming:- The first tick will be virtually instant (so overall the channel is now 2 seconds, not 3)- The mana cost has been cut roughly in half.- There's a new Discipline talent that will make it more interesting (Source)
Warlock (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Demonic Circle
The looping and sound issues will be fixed soon, as well as some other random bugs with the ability. (Source)
Warrior (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
AoE TankingI totally agree. It's depressing to see how excited a 5-player group gets with a paladin tank just because they know they're going to get a good experience.
There are plenty of excellent warrior tanks out there -- don't get me wrong. But we think we can make the experience a little more fun for both the warrior and his or her group.
Generating a little more dps will help.Not being rage starved all the time will help.Being able to generate enough threat on groups will help a lot.Having a few more fun buttons to push certainly wouldn't suck either.We would also love, love, love to be able to merge and pack some of the mitigation talents together so that you have enough points to get some more fun talents*, so long as we can avoid any nerf to warrior survivability when tanking.
* - this is totally true of the other Prot tree too. (Source)
Death Knight (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Anti Magic Shell = WIN!
That is by design. Now, it might end up being too powerful and ultimately getting tweaked, but it isn't a bug. (Source)
Damn, just read them. Seems the arena points aren't long lasting. 🙁
State of Lake Wintergrasp
It looks like the current rewards in Lake Wintergrasp are only temporary.
Quote from: Verimonde (Source)
In response to the recent interest in Lake Wintergrasp, we?d like to take a moment to share the current developments with the zone.
As many of you have noticed, it is currently half implemented. We?re working as quickly as possible to get it into a fun and enjoyable state. To help provide better feedback for PvP testing, we?ll be temporarily providing Honor and Arena gear from a vendor in Wintergrasp. The rate at which you receive honor has been accelerated to help players gear up quickly while helping us test the zone. In addition, we are also providing Arena points during the beta for testing purposes so that players can PvP in a complete set of PvP gear.
We?ll let you know when the zone is in a completed state. Please keep in mind the current zone and reward structure are temporary.
Blue posts
Quote from Blizzard staff
BlizzCon Ticket Drawing Opt-In Period Ends
The opt-in period for the BlizzCon 2008 Ticket Drawing is now over. We will be randomly selecting winners within the next few days and will announce when selections have been made on our websites. If you are chosen, you will receive an email from Blizzard containing information about how to purchase up to two tickets to BlizzCon 2008. If you haven?t done so already, please go to Blizzard Account Management and update your contact information. For more details, see the FAQ. (Source)
Druid (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Typhoon
It's not finished, no. We're still working on the new graphic for it, and also considering a different design path for it. (Source)
Improved Moonkin Form
The plan is for it to go raid wide. Given the talents avaiable to deep Balance, I hope it's obvious that we are trying to make the Moonkin a very competitive spellcaster. Some of the concerns from BC (e.g. running out of mana, lack of AE or CC, not enough group synergy) should be aleviated by now. (Source)
Feral spec in WotLK
We do want to give Ferals who want to focus on being cats some excellent melee dps. We do want bears to be end-game tanks. We want to see serious guilds with a bear MT and a death knight OT.
What held us back from that before was that the kitty could turn around and tank almost as well (and sometimes better) than the Prot dudes who abandoned any hope of competitive dps in order to be able to tank for their guild. Clearly (I hope) a class that could do rogue-level dps and warrior-level tanking with the same talent build is the kind of thing that makes other players a little miffed.
But we're reevaluating a lot of old (and some admittedly tired) decisions for Lich King. Not only will tank-spec classes be able to do a lot higher dps (not the highest in the raid mind you, but higher), but we think it's fine for a Feral to nerf their tanking ability a little in order to go for high dps, or lower their dps a little in order to be amazing tanks.
We don't think it will take a complete overhaul of the Feral tree. To be honest, I think it's a pretty fun tree. But it will definitely take some changes to the tree you see on beta today. Imagine 5-10 talent points that significantly increase your survivability but do nothing to your dps. Take those points and you're a tank. Ignore them and you're melee dps. Take a few here and there and you are as flexible as you are today. I'm not saying that is the final or even only sollution. But that implementation gets brought up quite a bit. (Source)
Paladin (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Retribution Paladins
I meant that we can't assume Vengeance is up 100% of the time so we can't assume paladins will always have that 15% boost. Yet if we balance them without that 15% (or we try and estimate it at something like 5 or 10%), we'll start to run into trouble when paladins with lots of +crit do manage to keep it up all the time. And if it really is up all the time, is that interesting an ability anyway?
As to the death knight, we only gave them that talent to mirror the paladin one and catch a hint of the "anti-paladin" vibe. Whatever treatment Vengeance ends up, Bloody Vengeance will almost certainly get as well.
I agree there are several things driving Retribution to be bursty. To some degree, bursts can be fun. We all like seeing a crit with a big number flying up. But we'd probably all agree that there comes a point where you feel like you're just rolling a dice -- maybe I'll do crazy dps on my next few hits and maybe I won't. I think we can stabilize Retribution a little bit while still letting you see some big numbers sometime and have very competitive dps. (Source)
Priest (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Upcoming Penance Changes
Some changes to Penance are incoming:- The first tick will be virtually instant (so overall the channel is now 2 seconds, not 3)- The mana cost has been cut roughly in half.- There's a new Discipline talent that will make it more interesting (Source)
Warlock (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Demonic Circle
The looping and sound issues will be fixed soon, as well as some other random bugs with the ability. (Source)
Warrior (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
AoE TankingI totally agree. It's depressing to see how excited a 5-player group gets with a paladin tank just because they know they're going to get a good experience.
There are plenty of excellent warrior tanks out there -- don't get me wrong. But we think we can make the experience a little more fun for both the warrior and his or her group.
Generating a little more dps will help.Not being rage starved all the time will help.Being able to generate enough threat on groups will help a lot.Having a few more fun buttons to push certainly wouldn't suck either.We would also love, love, love to be able to merge and pack some of the mitigation talents together so that you have enough points to get some more fun talents*, so long as we can avoid any nerf to warrior survivability when tanking.
* - this is totally true of the other Prot tree too. (Source)
Death Knight (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Anti Magic Shell = WIN!
That is by design. Now, it might end up being too powerful and ultimately getting tweaked, but it isn't a bug. (Source)
Aikouka
Lifer
That is what I meant and what I thought I said when I mentioned talents affected bear and cat. Although there are a few in resto that affect bear and cat as well. Furor being the reason that my level 45 druid only just got Leader of the Pack 😛.
I think they'll just pull some of those synergistic talents apart and try to make some talents only affect bear and some only affect cat rather than the majority of feral talents affect both.
Although I'm not sure how I'd spec my druid... tanking on him isn't too bad, although having a warrior makes me say, "I wish Enrage was like Bloodrage" 😛. Druids are pretty easy to level overall... I think the only thing I'd complain about is the lack of being able to stop or slow a mob (such an annoyance when a mob runs) and being unable to interrupt unless I switch to bear form. Which half the time, when the game finally says I have enough rage to Feral Charge (and I do have Furor) or Bash, the mob is already done casting. But I easily survived five mobs at once and can kill elites. Gah I want kick... gah I want crippling poison! 😛 I was actually going to level my other rogue (as a sub rogue!) with my druid, which would've gave me cripply and kick (obviously). But I decided to be lazy since two melee work, but positioning is a pain when you use /follow.
Oh and I'm kind of curious about sub rogue leveling... my idea is going to be to use cheap shot (typically) as an opener and use kind of a ghostly strike + setup combo to help build points more. With GS, I dodge more... and with setup, I can gain points. Also combined with hemo, point gen should be decent overall. Haven't been able to try it much, but I think it'll work 😱.
That's your choice - the point is that if you wanted to, you could spec feral and be both DPS and Tanking so long as you have the right gear. That's a pretty awesome ability that other tanking specs don't have.
Need to go kill some shit as a feral druid tank? Not a problem, throw on your cat gear. Need to tank? Not a problem, throw on your bear gear.
That's not the case for prot spec warriors, for instance; you not only need DPS gear, but you pretty much need to spend the gold and respec if you want to be effective at all at DPS. Even in DPS gear, prot warriors do poor damage.
lupi
Lifer
Some notes for today, looks like we were right in assuming everything would be added with the pre release patch. Also some further indication that the release date may be sooner than first though as we now have PTRs popping up soon.
Patch 3.0.2 on PTR "soon"
The 3.0.2 Content patch introducing some of the WotLK features before the release of the expansion might be deployed on PTRs sooner than what we expected ...
Quote from: Tigole (Source)
None of the classes are done. They are still being iterated on. 3.0 will be on the PTR's soon. There is still a lot of testing before 3.0 would go live to public servers.
If you look back at past patches, we've had patches on the PTR for over 2 months before. Also, the european PTR forums have already been cleaned from all posts to get ready for the new PTR Phase - 27/08 PTR forum cleaned
Quote from: Slorkuz (Source)
To keep this forum relevant to the current or upcoming version on the PTRs, all old threads have been removed. This will be done soon after each patch test cycle is completed and the patch is applied to the regular realms.
Informational sticky threads will be reposted after each forum wipe, and as new information about the current or upcoming patch becomes available it will be added in this forum.
Achievements - Feats of Strength (Realm First)
Quote from: Tigole (Source)
Realm Firsts are implemented in the next beta build although they will be slightly broken due to the fact that we have data issues with existing beta testers. For now, here's the list. We'll probably add more.
Realm First to 80
Realm First <insert class here> to 80
Realm First <insert race here> to 80
Realm first <insert tradeskill or secondary skill> to 450
Realm First 10/25 end-boss kills
Keep in mind, this will be broken on beta realms slightly. For example, in the current build, Realm First Mage to 80 is actually implemented. Well, Daelo, our Lead Encounter Designer, was testing something and leveled a Mage to 80 instantly and got the achievement for the server. On live realms, this will never happen. On live realms, all blizzard employee accounts are not counted toward server-firsts. But this part of the technology was not yet implemented.
Also, when those Realm First achievements go live, they won't be accurate on the beta realms. But on live realms, the data will be pure and the information will display correctly.
Something to note about Realm Firsts:
A Realm First window stays open for 1 minute after initial completion of the Feat Of Strength. This means if 25 people kill Malygos as a Realm First, they'll all get credit. But what this also means is that if two players reach level 80 within a minute of each other, they will both get credit as well. Also note that achievements might be tracked as soon as the upcoming content patch is deployed on live servers.
Quote from: Tigole (Source)
Originally, the answer was no. We were going to wait until Northrend opened. But we will most likely put the system live for 3.0. This could of course change but the current leaning is to put the system live with 3.0.
Build 8820 - Additional Dungeon Loot
A few more items were added to the dungeon loot list posted yesterday.
The Nexus - Heroic Mode
[*]Arcane-Shielded Helm (Plate - Helm)
[/list]
Halls of Lightning
[*]Hewn Sparring Quarterstaff (Staff)[*]Kilt of Molten Golems (Mail - Legs)[*]Mantle of Electrical Charges (Cloth - Shoulders)[*]Cape of Seething Steam (Others - Cloak)[*]Chaotic Spiral Amulet (Others - Neck)
[/list]
Blue posts
Quote from Blizzard staff
Flying Mounts in Dalaran
For the time being, it is intended that you cannot fly within the city of Dalaran. We want you to be able to fly into Dalaran and fly out of Dalaran (via mounting at the flying landing or in the sewer pipe) but we don't want people flying around the city streets. We do want people to be able to mount on their ground mounts in the city (but not indoors).
This isn't entirely set up properly yet and not all things are working. Most of this will be implemented over the coming weeks. If it's horrible, we'll change it. But that's what we're trying out right now.
A big complaint of Shattrath was that it did not feel like a city. A goal of Dalaran was to re-capture the bustling street feel of places like Stormwind and Orgrimmar. Flying mounts work contrary to this goal. (Source)
Changes to Illidan encounters with the 3.0.2 patch and new talentsChanges can be made to encounters if we feel they are necessary to allow the fight to work right. That said, the release of the patch isn't tomorrow, it's sometime in the coming weeks, so you still have time to work on the raids. Good luck on Illidan. (Source)
Netherdrakes in WotLK
We don't have any current plans to remove the ability to get the Netherdrakes in Outland, we'll let you know if anything changes. (Source)
Rogue (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Lack of rogue changes in WotLK Beta
Beta implies that the game is in a testing process and currently incomplete. Your assistance in testing and providing feedback is much appreciated, however, we ask that you remain patient while we continue to push out new content, abilities, and balancing adjustments each week.
No class is going to be left behind when all is said and done. The point of working through a Beta process is to ensure the product is fully polished by the time it is slated for release. We ask that you consider this before expressing frustration over a lack of battle-ready talents and abilities for your class in its current state. We will continue to push out changes for the Rogue class -- as with every other class -- so you will all have plenty of time to test out the updates. (Source)
Warrior (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Intensify RageThank you for bringing up this concern. After examining the situation we agreed this would potentially be a problem. Precision and Intensify Rage have now switched places in the talent tree. We want this to be something that a furry warrior has access to without making arms warriors feel they have to have it to be functional. (Source)
Patch 3.0.2 on PTR "soon"
The 3.0.2 Content patch introducing some of the WotLK features before the release of the expansion might be deployed on PTRs sooner than what we expected ...
Quote from: Tigole (Source)
None of the classes are done. They are still being iterated on. 3.0 will be on the PTR's soon. There is still a lot of testing before 3.0 would go live to public servers.
If you look back at past patches, we've had patches on the PTR for over 2 months before. Also, the european PTR forums have already been cleaned from all posts to get ready for the new PTR Phase - 27/08 PTR forum cleaned
Quote from: Slorkuz (Source)
To keep this forum relevant to the current or upcoming version on the PTRs, all old threads have been removed. This will be done soon after each patch test cycle is completed and the patch is applied to the regular realms.
Informational sticky threads will be reposted after each forum wipe, and as new information about the current or upcoming patch becomes available it will be added in this forum.
Achievements - Feats of Strength (Realm First)
Quote from: Tigole (Source)
Realm Firsts are implemented in the next beta build although they will be slightly broken due to the fact that we have data issues with existing beta testers. For now, here's the list. We'll probably add more.
Realm First to 80
Realm First <insert class here> to 80
Realm First <insert race here> to 80
Realm first <insert tradeskill or secondary skill> to 450
Realm First 10/25 end-boss kills
Keep in mind, this will be broken on beta realms slightly. For example, in the current build, Realm First Mage to 80 is actually implemented. Well, Daelo, our Lead Encounter Designer, was testing something and leveled a Mage to 80 instantly and got the achievement for the server. On live realms, this will never happen. On live realms, all blizzard employee accounts are not counted toward server-firsts. But this part of the technology was not yet implemented.
Also, when those Realm First achievements go live, they won't be accurate on the beta realms. But on live realms, the data will be pure and the information will display correctly.
Something to note about Realm Firsts:
A Realm First window stays open for 1 minute after initial completion of the Feat Of Strength. This means if 25 people kill Malygos as a Realm First, they'll all get credit. But what this also means is that if two players reach level 80 within a minute of each other, they will both get credit as well. Also note that achievements might be tracked as soon as the upcoming content patch is deployed on live servers.
Quote from: Tigole (Source)
Originally, the answer was no. We were going to wait until Northrend opened. But we will most likely put the system live for 3.0. This could of course change but the current leaning is to put the system live with 3.0.
Build 8820 - Additional Dungeon Loot
A few more items were added to the dungeon loot list posted yesterday.
The Nexus - Heroic Mode
[*]Arcane-Shielded Helm (Plate - Helm)
[/list]
Halls of Lightning
[*]Hewn Sparring Quarterstaff (Staff)[*]Kilt of Molten Golems (Mail - Legs)[*]Mantle of Electrical Charges (Cloth - Shoulders)[*]Cape of Seething Steam (Others - Cloak)[*]Chaotic Spiral Amulet (Others - Neck)
[/list]
Blue posts
Quote from Blizzard staff
Flying Mounts in Dalaran
For the time being, it is intended that you cannot fly within the city of Dalaran. We want you to be able to fly into Dalaran and fly out of Dalaran (via mounting at the flying landing or in the sewer pipe) but we don't want people flying around the city streets. We do want people to be able to mount on their ground mounts in the city (but not indoors).
This isn't entirely set up properly yet and not all things are working. Most of this will be implemented over the coming weeks. If it's horrible, we'll change it. But that's what we're trying out right now.
A big complaint of Shattrath was that it did not feel like a city. A goal of Dalaran was to re-capture the bustling street feel of places like Stormwind and Orgrimmar. Flying mounts work contrary to this goal. (Source)
Changes to Illidan encounters with the 3.0.2 patch and new talentsChanges can be made to encounters if we feel they are necessary to allow the fight to work right. That said, the release of the patch isn't tomorrow, it's sometime in the coming weeks, so you still have time to work on the raids. Good luck on Illidan. (Source)
Netherdrakes in WotLK
We don't have any current plans to remove the ability to get the Netherdrakes in Outland, we'll let you know if anything changes. (Source)
Rogue (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Lack of rogue changes in WotLK Beta
Beta implies that the game is in a testing process and currently incomplete. Your assistance in testing and providing feedback is much appreciated, however, we ask that you remain patient while we continue to push out new content, abilities, and balancing adjustments each week.
No class is going to be left behind when all is said and done. The point of working through a Beta process is to ensure the product is fully polished by the time it is slated for release. We ask that you consider this before expressing frustration over a lack of battle-ready talents and abilities for your class in its current state. We will continue to push out changes for the Rogue class -- as with every other class -- so you will all have plenty of time to test out the updates. (Source)
Warrior (Skills List / Talent Calc. (8820))
Intensify RageThank you for bringing up this concern. After examining the situation we agreed this would potentially be a problem. Precision and Intensify Rage have now switched places in the talent tree. We want this to be something that a furry warrior has access to without making arms warriors feel they have to have it to be functional. (Source)
I wasn't complaining that I can't do that. I was simply stating that a gear switch was not enough to get the job done. Anyways, Aikouka's statement was clarified later.
Also, don't forget that while it is my choice to spec how I please, it is also just as much your choice when it comes to the class you elect to play as your main. With that said, I recognize that the warrior fury tree could use some work and I believe that they are accomplishing that goal very nicely in WotLK should you choose to spec for DPS properly. Likewise with druids. They are changing things around a lot to the point where they druids are not supposed to be extremely effective in cat form and bear form with a single spec. They need to mix and match and/or choose to lean towards one side or the other. That doesn't mean that a druid which leans more towards bear will suck at DPS in cat form. It just means that they will not be as effective in cat form as they could be. At least, that is what they have expressed as their goal for the xpack.
I'll never understand all of the druid hate. I realize that Blizz pigeon holed 2v2 in the arena with our class quite a bit, but that really isn't the class's fault as much as many think it is. They are nerfing LB anyways and cyclone should eb easier to deal with so it shouldn't be quite as bad. That plus the DKs will balance things out very nicely with that issue.
BassBomb
Diamond Member
Question for any that are in the beta:
Non deathknight related..
Your char you are testing towards 80, what level is he now? What gear level did you have before starting the beta (ie T4, T5, T6, T6.5 or PVP)?
How long did it take until you replaced most if not all of your gear from lev 70
Non deathknight related..
Your char you are testing towards 80, what level is he now? What gear level did you have before starting the beta (ie T4, T5, T6, T6.5 or PVP)?
How long did it take until you replaced most if not all of your gear from lev 70
Aikouka
Lifer
My first character was a rogue... then a priest... then a warrior (then a mage). I think this makes it worse than leveling a warrior first as you know how much easier the other classes have it. I also leveled Arms *shudder*.
I remember how painful it was fighting two mobs at the same time... and I even buffed up my warrior a bit through enchants and junk (like +agility on his whirlwind axe).
I haven't been playing as much lately for various reasons, but I am currently level 74 getting close to 75. I started out with pretty much everything I want out of MH/BT and have not touched SW. I have replaced my neck so far in terms of my healing gear and the trinkets from my spell dmg gear set. The replacements came from quests which rewarded me with blues in the starter zones. However, nothing has come close to replacing any of my other gear and I do not expect that to even begin happening until level 77 instances. Even then, the replacements will be limited. Most likely, the majority of my gear replacement process will happen at level 80 as I proceed through heroics.
To be fair, let us not forget how incredibly useless druids were around this same time frame. The resto tree was the only tree worth specing and even that was very limited in usage compared to other classes until about the time they gave us swiftmend. Later, they fixed the resto tree and then it was the feral tree. Balance is still borked even though it isn't quite as bad as it used to be, but let us hope that WotLK changes that.
Aikouka
Lifer
Funny, I knew a few good feral druids that had no problems leveling back when I leveled my rogue (Winter 2004...).
Warriors also had the fun of getting a class quest at level 30 (or whenever you got zerker stance) that you couldn't complete by yourself until 40+... and even then, you'd need help defeating Cyclonian (40 Elite).
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