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The AT World of Warcraft Thread (Where do you play) and general BS

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Ben, I think it's time for you to switch games or at least switch classes and leave your bitterness behind.

I have a tree with ~2K healing and 500mp5 while casting. Trees are obnoxiously OP and stupidly easy to play. When I get my other toons to comparable gear level I will be able to further assess how much easier it is for them then the mage. Shad priests I know of, I can roll on my wife's toon(shad priest- 1250 bonus dmg) and finish quite solidly, they are much easier then a mage to maintain dps(just need to focus on your cast rotation a bit more then mages do to optimize dps).

On top of that, Blizz just doesn't agree with you in terms of the DPS thing and I doubt that will change. That doesn't mean that they are ultimately right, but they do hold all of the aces.

We have lost all but 2 people in our guild whose mains were mages to AoC. Blizz can consider themselves holding all the aces, that is fine. The mages are leaving the game in rather large numbers.

So, this goes back to a previous argument I made which is that if you are not having fun playing something then either change how you play or play something else and let the QQ end. It's obviously not making you happy so just let it go and have fun playing video games.

I will say with almost complete certainty that I have spent more time playing my mage then Blizz has addressing the issue for the ~600,000 people whose main happens to be a mage.

just a note on the DPS issue of certian classes, the 4 pure DPS classes, Rogues, Locks, Mages and Hunters. someone HAS to be last, right now its mages
mages bitch about locks, yet hunters and rogues out DPS us both :/

at one point mages were DPS kings and hunters were crap, rogues were on top for a while when locks were almost useless

Hunters lose their aura, expose weakness and misdirect? Did you lose your healthstones, curses and soulstones?

Mages don't have an issue losing to another pure dps class- locks and hunters just don't match the criteria. Now mages would have some solid logic behind arguing that they should be able to flat out beat a utility dps class, as again if given the choice between equal dps with one slot having more utility why not take the utility? But as it stands right now they have inferior utility and inferior dps while being the class that dies the easiest in the game.

Also started selling some of my lower stuff like the old essences and they seem to sell fairly well considering how useless they are

Eternals and nethers are going for way more then the higher level mats at this point on my server. Actually, that is what I use my mage for now- farm twink mats out of Scholo and Strat(I can solo the first half of Scholo, and Strat I just walk to LS- only have to kill one pack on the way) and farm orbs. I'm averaging close to 500G an hour now(although I only do it for an hour a day, don't want to flood the market and drive prices down 😉 ).
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Eternals and nethers are going for way more then the higher level mats at this point on my server. Actually, that is what I use my mage for now- farm twink mats out of Scholo and Strat(I can solo the first half of Scholo, and Strat I just walk to LS- only have to kill one pack on the way) and farm orbs. I'm averaging close to 500G an hour now(although I only do it for an hour a day, don't want to flood the market and drive prices down 😉 ).

Yep - because eternals / nethers are the main materials which can get you from 270ish to 300 enchanting.

 
Ben, did you have fun playing your mage or not? Honestly, that's all that really matters here. Playing any video game in such a way where you are not having a lot of fun is just walking the path of the dodo. Otherwise, you got what you paid for which is a fun video game experience.

CKent, to answer your question, my guild is 4/5 MH and we are currently working on RoS in BT. We should have RoS down this week and Archimonde is only alive because we haven't bothered attempting him yet. So basically, we are very familiar with how end game works with exception of SW and how mages apply to it.

In the end, it has always been the same for my guild. During our learning curve progressive nights, we will often form a raid which is more encounter specific. On nights where most of our time is spent killing things that we have killed at least once in the past then we just balance the raid. In all cases, we role with less than the recommended healers even for the most healing intensive fights because our team of healers is 5 star. That basic raid forming strat has never delayed our progression, everyone gets to play regularly, we are winning constantly, and we all have a great time. IMO, that's what the most enjoyable raiding guilds are all about.

What so many people fail to realize is that while it is important to form a powerful raid that provides a realistic opportunity to beat the encounters at hand, you don't have to maximize EVERYTHING in order to have fun and win easily without it feeling like a tiresome effort. My guild does it all of the time. Believe me, it makes playing the game much more fun when you are not constantly being bombarded by the feeling of constant nit picky optimization and perfection requirements.

Lastly, I will again emphasize that I am aware that Mages have their issues and there is a lot of potential out there right now to make playing the mage a lot more fun. I have already expressed how I believe that can be accomplished. In the mean time, if constantly hitting the top of the DPS charts is really what makes the game the most fun for you, then get yourself a geared 70 for each DPS class because they all seem to rotate being #1 like Anubis stated. WoW just isn't designed around the desires of those who gotta be the most elite or else they will be unhappy. It never has been. Why it takes so many people so long to either accept that concept or walk away silently is beyond me. It's not like WoW hasn't been around for years already...
 
Ben, did you have fun playing your mage or not? Honestly, that's all that really matters here. Playing any video game in such a way where you are not having a lot of fun is just walking the path of the dodo. Otherwise, you got what you paid for which is a fun video game experience.

This is such a dishonest way of looking at the situation due to the very nature of a MMO. Playing WoW requires an awful lot of grinding and work to get your character to a viable spot to reach the real fun stuff, be it PVP or PVE- you can try to argue the point but I don't think anyone that has played much of the game would. Blizzard has flat out lied to us since before TBC launched about exactly where our class would be- they told us we were the highest single target dps in end game content. So mages listened to what they said, were willing to put in the work to get their, maximize their dps through gear and tweaking of talents only to realize when we actually got to the real end game content, we were no longer wanted in raids anymore because our spots were not warranted. I paid for what Blizzard explicitly stated I was going to get- they lied.

The fun part for me has always been killing new bosses or going into a BG/Arena and venting out some hostility on live players. With hundreds of hours spent farming the gear to get myself into a position to be competitive I find that I can't be now as Blizzard decided that having us viable in ANY aspect of the game isn't what they want to do. I can't say they lied on this one as they never explicitly stated that mages would be truly viable for PVP. If I had spent 10, or 100 or maybe even 1000 hours of my time working on my class before I found out that Blizz was flat out lieing, then perhaps I would be so bitter, but I spent much, much more then that. I did this on the premise that I would be able to get to the fun content, now I can't in a viable manner.

If Blizzard had not blatantly lied to us and told us up front that we would have no raid utility and would be fourth on the damage meters you would see next to no mages now, they did not do this. So no, I did not get what I paid for at all. If Blizz wants to give me all of the money back along with paying me for all the time I spent working towards realizing their lies I would stop complaining about it. I don't see that happening though.

What so many people fail to realize is that while it is important to form a powerful raid that provides a realistic opportunity to beat the encounters at hand, you don't have to maximize EVERYTHING in order to have fun and win easily without it feeling like a tiresome effort.

Say that when you get into Sunwell. If you are saying that you are content never getting to endgame then realize that my rantings aren't going to apply to you. A mage can put out mediocre dps and if they want to remain in raid groups a step behind end game then they can do that in a completely viable fashion. What they can't do is get into actual end game content.

Believe me, it makes playing the game much more fun when you are not constantly being bombarded by the feeling of constant nit picky optimization and perfection requirements.

Then don't go to Sunwell.

In the mean time, if constantly hitting the top of the DPS charts is really what makes the game the most fun for you, then get yourself a geared 70 for each DPS class because they all seem to rotate being #1 like Anubis stated.

There are only TWO pure dps classes in the game, no mage cares if we lose to a Rogue. Hunters and locks are utility/dps, they shouldn't ever beat a pure dps class. If Blizz continues along this path holy priests will eventually out dps mages- you may laugh at it but that is the current direction Blizz is heading in.

Why it takes so many people so long to either accept that concept or walk away silently is beyond me.

Blizz made the game so we had to sink obnoxious amounts of time into it. Blizz charges an extremely high amount of total money to play the game- and then they change the rules on you without telling you why. As I said before, if Blizz were honest to begin with then there wouldn't be this kind of backlash against them, they lied to take our money away from us.
 
My main used to be a mage, as it was my favorite class. Then when BC came out, I switched to druid because they were an underrepresented class. They were prety OP until around 2.1, and I wanted to tank for myself because I was sick of crappy ones.

Now that my druid has full BT gear (still trying to get some new recruits to start SP) I've been managing to get gear for my mage. I find that I out-dps equally-geared warlocks or come in only a little behind fully geared locks on most fights. I think it is due to mages generating less threat, and the fact that for almost all fights we can dps 100% of the time while warlocks have to constantly stop to either tap or let the tank's threat catch up. Oh, and I'm 61 frost.


Oh yeah, last night we got our first warglaive, woo! On the one night that the main raid leader had something else to do (first time I can ever remember him not being online), we 1-shot illidan (usually takes us 2-3 attempts), and he drops warglaive, the shield (which we had only gotten 1 of so far and the raid leader had been trying to get the 2nd one) and the caster dps hat (also something many people wanted and we'd only seen one of). Amazing loot, considering we've gotten about 20 of the plate tanking hats and 10 of the stupid daggers so far.
 
Ben, if you don't have fun playing the parts of the game that involve leveling, questing, 5 mans, etc then are you really certain that this is the game for you? I have lots of fun doing all that stuff in addition to end game content. Most of those who are very satisfied with WoW do as well. The game is not supposed to feel like a job in the sense that there is only a fraction of it you enjoy such as the paycheck at the end of the week. At least to me, that's not worth my time. My time is valuable to me.

In regards to the whole Sunwell thing, people have said the exact same things about many encounters in the past and every single time my guild has overcome all of the nonsense that plagues the WoW community about it. In addition, every single time I make that argument I always get the retort about how such and such boss/instance is totally different! So far, all of those people are batting zero when considering how my guild progresses. We always do just fine.

However, let's say for a moment that I am wrong and you are spot on correct. If that is the case, then is playing WoW and constantly working on the latest raid content as soon as it is released really the most fun way to play the game for most people? It seems that the vast majority of complaints from the raiders in the WoW community are coming from those who fall into that category. Maybe that should suggest something to everyone? I really don't know. It's just a theory. I realize there are also plenty of guilds who fit in that category but do not complain so much and genuinely enjoy the game during most of the hours that they play it without requiring their elitist e-peens to be constantly jerked off by Blizz.

 
Quote from: Blizzard

A recent vulnerability has been discovered in popular web-content delivery program Adobe Flash, and it could potentially be used to target World of Warcraft players and accounts. The newest available version of Adobe Flash, version 9.0.124.0, does not contain this vulnerability, and we recommend that everyone upgrade their Flash player as soon as possible by visiting the Adobe.com download page at the link below.

http://www.adobe.com/shockwave...Version=ShockwaveFlash

In addition, to avoid exploitation of this vulnerability, we have temporarily disabled the ability to post hyperlinks in our forums. Any links will need to be copied and pasted into a browser. We?ll continue to evaluate any potential security threats and take any steps necessary to ensure a safe and fun environment.

For more information on this issue, you can read the announcements from the Adobe security team concerning the threat at the links below.

http://blogs.adobe.com/psirt/2...ash_player_issue.html
http://blogs.adobe.com/psirt/2..._player_issue_u_1.html
 
Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Amazing loot, considering we've gotten about 20 of the plate tanking hats and 10 of the stupid daggers so far.

go go void crystal of Azzinoth!!!

just wait till you do sunwell, first 2 Kalec Kills yeiled us 2 stupid daggers, which then made 2 voids which we made into 4 large prismatics
 
Ben, if you don't have fun playing the parts of the game that involve leveling, questing, 5 mans, etc then are you really certain that this is the game for you?

What game has more end game content then WoW? Show me it, and I will leave WoW behind gladly. As far as having fun with leveling, questing or 5 mans- no, not in the least. For me to enjoy a game there needs to be SOME challenge- the last time a 5 man presented that was before the nerfed the crap out of heroics to make scrubs feel better. Don't get me wrong, I understand why they did what they did with that content, but it certainly took all of the enjoyment out of it for me. We do regular instances now without tanks or CC- heroics we still need a tank for at this point, but we don't have a full T6 rogue yet to try it out quite yet.

In regards to the whole Sunwell thing, people have said the exact same things about many encounters in the past and every single time my guild has overcome all of the nonsense that plagues the WoW community about it.

10Million dmg in 6 minutes. I am not saying antyhing in the world about the skill of your guild, you may well be able to one shot every other boss in Sunwell with ease. With Brutallus you MUST have a certain dps level and that level will not cater to a care bear attitude. You bring enough dps or you are going to wipe, period. You can talk about synergy, sing hyms, however you want to approach it- you need to do 10Million damage in 6 minutes or you aren't getting Brutallus down. I did not make this rule, and this is something that you should take into consideration.

With an enrage timer like Brutallus Blizz has required that your raid be pushing ~29K dps, this is somewhere between three and four times the dps you need to hit with Supremus(who is obnoxiously easy admittedly, but that is the level of ramping difference between SW and BT).

In addition, every single time I make that argument I always get the retort about how such and such boss/instance is totally different!

Do the math and tell me how exactly it is going to work out for you. You can go ahead and check, I have never claimed anyone would have any such problems with any other boss. Brutallus isn't difficult in any execution type sense, he is an even simpler version of VR with FAR Higher dps requirements- that is all he takes to get down. He is stupidly easy if you have a raid full of 2.5K dpsers, but that isn't really viable.

Now that my druid has full BT gear (still trying to get some new recruits to start SP) I've been managing to get gear for my mage. I find that I out-dps equally-geared warlocks or come in only a little behind fully geared locks on most fights. I think it is due to mages generating less threat, and the fact that for almost all fights we can dps 100% of the time while warlocks have to constantly stop to either tap or let the tank's threat catch up. Oh, and I'm 61 frost.

Uhm, your tanks aren't up to par 🙂 Playing it perfectly with full Sunwell gear you aren't breaking 2.1K dps 61 frost, and frost generates less threat then shadow. Not knocking you in any way, just saying perfectly geared and perfectly played you can't come close to the level of dmg that a mediocre destro lock can push out frost spec.
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
What game has more end game content then WoW? Show me it, and I will leave WoW behind gladly.

Does this mean you do not play any other games due to the lack of end game content? I didn't say that you should consider another MMO although that could be the best option depending on your tastes *shrug*. WoW is my first MMO so I can't say much about that. I'm just saying that maybe WoW isn't providing you with enough enjoyment to justify the time and money which could be spent playing other games.

In regards to Brut, I imagine that once we reach him we will do what we always do which is form an encounter specific raid at first and then bring more balanced raids along once we get better at him. I highly doubt we will exclude any classes though. We have never done that and never will. Anubis's remarks about how his guild has handled Brut in the past is proof that killing him with a raid that is not 100% optimized is most certainly doable. I don't care if the kill is cutting it close to the enrage timer or not. A kill is a kill. It sounds like the biggest issue with Brut is getting enough of the rarer drops from BT to distribute amongst the raid. Also, remember what I said about my guild and healers. We have always brought at least 1 healer (usually 2-3) less than what is recommended and we still manage to survive with ease. Obviously, this means more DPS.

 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Uhm, your tanks aren't up to par 🙂 Playing it perfectly with full Sunwell gear you aren't breaking 2.1K dps 61 frost, and frost generates less threat then shadow. Not knocking you in any way, just saying perfectly geared and perfectly played you can't come close to the level of dmg that a mediocre destro lock can push out frost spec.

There are several fights with threat resets where locks have to slow or stop dps for considerable time (Bloodboil, Illidan, Zul'Jin, etc). On other fights that are straight DPS, they will have to spend time lifetapping.

And I'm not talking about full sunwell gear, which nobody has yet. There's some gear threshold where Fire breaks away from Frost, but I'm not at it yet.


Don't get me wrong though, I do agree though that mages are the gimp DPS class right now. Hunters are retardedly overpowered and come in several percent above all other classes on all fights (except Archimonde maybe). Mages DPS is not as good as warlocks (I do find it curious, that our warlocks brag about their SB's hitting for 4k and critting for 10k, while my FB is about half that, yet I still come in right around their overall damage for most bosses.), but locks have soulstones, don't need to chug mana pots every cooldown, and have way way more HP.
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434
CKent, to answer your question, my guild is 4/5 MH and we are currently working on RoS in BT. We should have RoS down this week and Archimonde is only alive because we haven't bothered attempting him yet. So basically, we are very familiar with how end game works with exception of SW and how mages apply to it.

In the end, it has always been the same for my guild. During our learning curve progressive nights, we will often form a raid which is more encounter specific. On nights where most of our time is spent killing things that we have killed at least once in the past then we just balance the raid. In all cases, we role with less than the recommended healers even for the most healing intensive fights because our team of healers is 5 star. That basic raid forming strat has never delayed our progression, everyone gets to play regularly, we are winning constantly, and we all have a great time. IMO, that's what the most enjoyable raiding guilds are all about.
4/5 MH & 3-5/9 BT are really not too hard, do you have your Hand of A'dal title? There isn't a fight that prevents bringing mages due to their low dps except perhaps for learning Brutallus. This is a good thing, it means that most guilds who aren't going all-out to maximize progression (eg. SK gaming) can bring people they enjoy playing with rather than people who play the right class. That's my guild's focus and on some nights we might have as many as 4 mages. This doesn't mean subpar mage damage is ok however. A part of playing for social enjoyment is appreciating others filling their role and returning the favor. Mages have too much trouble doing this.

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Now that my druid has full BT gear (still trying to get some new recruits to start SP) I've been managing to get gear for my mage. I find that I out-dps equally-geared warlocks or come in only a little behind fully geared locks on most fights. I think it is due to mages generating less threat, and the fact that for almost all fights we can dps 100% of the time while warlocks have to constantly stop to either tap or let the tank's threat catch up. Oh, and I'm 61 frost.
The warlocks you're outdamaging are not playing to their potential. Perhaps they're not 21/40, perhaps they have lag and don't properly queue their casts, perhaps they're not geared properly or well enough for the spec. Perhaps they're not in the caster group with a SP/ele shaman, perhaps there aren't enough of them (3+) to take them from strong to overpowered due to the mechanics of ISB.

And I don't mean to go off topic, but seirously, frost is not a raid spec and it's frustrating to see mages spec this way for raiding. It falls a few percent behind fire when looking at straight math, which would be acceptable - but that math isn't taking into account cooldown stacking, scaling, pushback or lack of molten fury, all of which pushes it way down out of the realm of acceptable and into comical. Mages have enough trouble with dps to begin with, speccing wrongly just exacerbates this.

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
There are several fights with threat resets where locks have to slow or stop dps for considerable time (Bloodboil, Illidan, Zul'Jin, etc). On other fights that are straight DPS, they will have to spend time lifetapping.
If you can't pretty much go all-out, your tanks are slacking. Once in a while they might get unlucky with the dice rolls or simply be spaced out, but if threat is a consistent issue for you, it's your tanks to blame and not game mechanics. They should probably read up on threat generation, I'm sure the Elitist Jerks forums have a lot of good info on this.

Edited: Eye spel gud.
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Eternals and nethers are going for way more then the higher level mats at this point on my server. Actually, that is what I use my mage for now- farm twink mats out of Scholo and Strat(I can solo the first half of Scholo, and Strat I just walk to LS- only have to kill one pack on the way) and farm orbs. I'm averaging close to 500G an hour now(although I only do it for an hour a day, don't want to flood the market and drive prices down 😉 ).

I actually meant things like Living Essence.

Also, my fire mage spanks almost every DPS I go up against in an instance except this one well-geared destro-sac lock. That's with me in not-that-great blues and greens :Q! It makes a world of difference when you actually know how to play your class, you can judge overall group DPS to know when the enemy is nearing the end of its life which spell to use. Oh and on that note, I hate elemental shamans... they're the worst class at trying to judge overall DPS with how damn bursty they are. I'll deem that I have enough time for a fireball and the mob dies a second too soon because of a LO proc 🙁. I guess I just need to start factoring in the chance of proc'age.
 
Originally posted by: CKent

4/5 MH & 3-5/9 BT are really not too hard, do you have your Hand of A'dal title? There isn't a fight that prevents bringing mages due to their low dps except perhaps for learning Brutallus. This is a good thing, it means that most guilds who aren't going all-out to maximize progression (eg. SK gaming) can bring people they enjoy playing with rather than people who play the right class. That's my guild's focus and on some nights we might have as many as 4 mages. This doesn't mean subpar mage damage is ok however. A part of playing for social enjoyment is appreciating others filling their role and returning the favor. Mages have too much trouble doing this.

I agree. Those fights really are not that bad. Yes, we have our Hand of A'dal title. I believe we were 4/5 in MH and 3/9 BT by the time the 2.4 patch was released. We are also working on RoS which we have barely touched to be honest but we already hitting P3 so I imagine it dies the next time we fight it which will hopefully be on Monday. Personally, I think RoS is a walk in the park once you break in the people who have not fought it before. I've also read up on the remaining fights in BT. Aside from Illidan, the rest don't sound any harder than previous bosses in terms of learning curve. For the most part they sound like the same old thing but just a little different as usual. We also have everyone with their SR gear already so that shouldn't delay us for Mother.
 
Going to see if I can slide this topic in here...
Gruuls!
What should I expect going in there as a Warrior DPS? I'm not even sure how many bosses there are (@ work, no wowhead)
 
Originally posted by: Malladine
Going to see if I can slide this topic in here...
Gruuls!
What should I expect going in there as a Warrior DPS? I'm not even sure how many bosses there are (@ work, no wowhead)

2 "bosses" High King Mulgar and Gruul himself, liek 5 trash pulls

High King comes with 4 adds that are like mini bosses, you will prob have to offtank one (they are pretty easy to tank) but this depends on the raid setup. just stay away from Kosh - the fire mage one because he does an AOE that is bad

Grull himself just watch threat and stay below the Tank/soak tank, run AWAY from people when you get the knockback/shatter (a mod with a distance warning thing helps with this)
dont stand in shit falling from the roof
 
okay, thanks Anubis! seems straight forward enough. I don't need to be attuned to get inside right? and it's a 25 man correct?
 
Originally posted by: Malladine
Nice. Sounds like a quick encounter if you don't wipe?

gruuls shouldent take any more then an hour if you dont wipe, and people understand what they are doing


we do Mag + Gruul in 45 min every thursday for badges/gems/DST/alts
but then again we vastly out gear the place and can actually 15 man them both
 
did you see the 5man gruuls? Rogue tank - unhittable in blues and epics. supposedly thats why there is a -25% dodge debuff in sunwell.
 
One of our Rogues got on that ""Tanking" kick./ He spent a ton of gold/DKP getting geared out (gems etc). I guess it's nice because if it works, you don't have to heal a tank at all. But it can't be used for all fights..and it requires the rogue to have a special group setup and the boss needs debuffed at all times (Scorpid sting etc).

Coming from a Prot Warrior, I find it kind of annoying but meh 😀
 
Does this mean you do not play any other games due to the lack of end game content?

I won't subscribe to one. If I am just buying a gamefor $50 and that's it not that much end game content is fine by me, the reason why a game like WoW appeals to me is even a relatively short raid like say SSC took me much longer to get through then most SP games take to complete from start to finish.

We have never done that and never will. Anubis's remarks about how his guild has handled Brut in the past is proof that killing him with a raid that is not 100% optimized is most certainly doable. I don't care if the kill is cutting it close to the enrage timer or not.

On the attempt Anubis posted bring a less then optimal raid they still had 8 toons pushing over 2K dps. I understand what you are saying, but his guild had been farming BT for several months before they headed into Sunwell. Sure, if your guild is in that position you may be able to get away with less then optimal grouping, but coming straight out of BT without min/max it is hard to imagine how you could reasonably hope to do Brut.

And I'm not talking about full sunwell gear, which nobody has yet. There's some gear threshold where Fire breaks away from Frost, but I'm not at it yet.

It's pre Kara that fire starts to pull away- once you get Spellfire+SS fire is already a couple hundred dps ahead of frost(when compared to FSW+SS). Obviously skill is going to make a big difference here, there is a mage in my guild that has a decent gear edge over me(stuck on the drood almost always) and I can still beat him every time in dps. Outside of 2pc T5 using an AB-AB-FB spam in a 40/0/21 build 10/48/3 or 2/48/11 is the highest raid dps.

What should I expect going in there as a Warrior DPS?

If I was RL you would be tanking the priest, depending on gear level we would normally have fury warriors tank the priest dual wielding, he hits like a kitten in relative terms. If you are still packing a decent amount of blues I would tell you to board and sword until he went down. Big thing to watch for if that is how you are used- generate agro FAST. The time from the pull until the priest goes down is the entire challenge for HKM- if you do that without anyone down the rest of the fight is child's play. Keep your pummel off of CD, he will occasionally cast a shield around himself and start to cast a big heal, wait until right before the heal goes off and hit your pummel- have faith your dps will get the shield down by then(if you a geared properly for the encounter your rogues should be saving their combo points to use then and your other dps should be saving their CDs for then too).

After the priest goes down, you will normally take the lock out next, by the time you get to him a hefty chunk of his life will be gone and he goes down quickly. After that there are two different ways of doing things, I don't think one is particularly better then the other, just slightly different- one is to have all ranged dps go after the mage while melee takes out the shammy, other groups focus all dps on the shammy then have ranged on the mage while melee goes after HKM. HKM himself pretty much always goes down last- make sure you have a boss mod so you know when to run out of whirlwind- your healers may be getting a bit low on mana depending on the gear level of your raid by this point and you don't want to try and make them heal anymore then possible.

For Gruul- watch your threat and do as much dps as possible, the only other thing you need to watch out for is shatter- get away from people as much as possible. Keep in mind that it is proximity based, if you are ~8 yards away from 3 people you will take a decent amount of damage, if you are standing on top of someone you are both dead. Grull doesn't have an enrage timer, but he keeps growing throughout the encounter and the bigger he gets, the harder he hits. Getting him down before he is capable of two shotting the MT or one shotting the hateful soaker is the challenge to the fight. He isn't difficult at all, but very different from HKM. HKM could probably fairly easily be dropped by a raid in all blues with excellent execution- Gruul is much more of a gear check no matter how good your execution is.
 
Thanks for the info. Ben! The guild i'm in hasn't hit Gruul with a completely guild raid yet, nevermind downed him. Should be a fun time 🙂

What's everyone's opinion on Arms DPS with +crit from Axe spec?
 
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