Originally posted by: VashHT
Are DK's really meant to tank while dual wielding or using a 2 hander? I read this somewhere else today and didn't really believe it. Is frost presence that good that it can make up for the lack of a shield?
Yep, it's very odd, but completely viable. Although, shields do provide a mitigation that essentially DKs miss out on (Block). Where Block may not seem like a big deal immediately (I mean Bears don't have it), but DKs are left to being the avoidance tank because they're so heavily invested in parry (gg weapon durability) with their talent to change strength to parry rating. So one bad aspect already is that you rely on parry rating and now avoidance ratings have diminishing returns. But Paladins and Warriors have block, which helps reduce attack damage (sometimes) and bears have that essentially molded into their higher damage reduction... Death Knights have nothing but on-use abilities (similar to Shield Wall, Divine Protection, Barkskin).
The use of a 2H weapon (which is preferred for tanking) also presents an issue of there being no real stats on a 2H designed for tanking. Now, you can say that the 2H weapon stats can help make up for it, but they don't necessarily. Using Naxxramas 25-man loot, the best 2H weapon in there is a 2H axe of Kel'thuzad with 121 stamina and 66 agility (dodge). There are two shields and two tanking weapons, the lowest combination of stamina that you can create with them is 127. Now, Frost Presence as a DK grants +10% stamina, so you'll actually get 133 stamina with the axe off Kel'Thuzad versus 127. The highest combination is 157 stamina.
Now, the other big thing to look at is armor contribution. Frost Presence grants +45% armor and the two shields grant 7890 and 7722 armor. So, to meet this, you must hit 17533 armor to get the exact same level of bonus armor. 25-man DK tanking armor + belt, boots and bracers from Naxx 25 man provide 13,213 armor (and I don't recall the amount you'd get from everything else), but I do believe you can hit close to 17533. So from what I see, you'll have the armor of the two, but you don't have block at all. You do get Icebound Fortitude, which has a 1/5 uptime compared to Shield Wall and Divine Protection, which have a 1/25 uptime. With that, Blizzard compares it to be a 10% mitigation (IBF and DP are 50% reduction where Shield Wall is 60%).
Originally posted by: rivan
Good point - even spamming Seed of Corruption, it's sometimes hard to get much in before everything's dead.
Think I'll see what recount has to say about just a boss fight - I've been just leaving it on the whole run.
I know this pain on my mage quite well
. I end up getting used to the dps output of a group and tend to cast accordingly, but sometimes even then that doesn't work. I blame boomkins.
Originally posted by: rivan
I meant to
link to my profile. I haven't gone out of my way for haste but I've ended up with quite a bit from the welfare scourge epics.
I'd probably... or rather on my lock I did... go into destruction as a sub-spec if you're affliction. Probably something kind of like...
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IcxMbhMAoVq0ustZE . Although, I'm not entirely sure as I haven't done much raid-wise on my lock to see how much damage shadowbolt will do during the course of a raid. Would probably have to get some input from Anubis on that to make a good decision.
Originally posted by: Anubis
people will be 80 by sunday even DKs, you can do 55-58 and hit outland in about 2 hours if you know what you are doing
I don't really see it going that quickly
.
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