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The anti-DRM thread

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,365
5,272
136
They could add 'special offers' to bicycles. As you ride, you hear ads.
More like your bicycle is locked to certain riders, but all the gears are high-resistance so you have reduced speed and range. And they have to track you everywhere to go to make sure you follow certain paths.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
21,694
521
126
Epic suing Apple & Google because Fortnite was removed from their respective stores, due to Epic bypassing their payment rules: https://www.techpowerup.com/270984/fortnite-gets-kicked-out-from-google-and-apple-app-stores-epic-games-files-a-lawsuit

It's hilariously ironic seeing one walled garden (which funnels user data to China, no less) suing two other walled gardens.

Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney said that Epic will not seek or accept any special deal that Apple may offer, but rather wants to fight for all developers.
Virtue-signalling delusion and hypocrisy at its finest. Maybe Valve should sue Epic for removing Fornite from Steam.

Or for Epic providing money to stop other developers releasing games on Steam. When Intel did that to AMD they were hit by anti-trust fines, yet Sweeney gets away with it.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,496
329
126
Or for Epic providing money to stop other developers releasing games on Steam. When Intel did that to AMD they were hit by anti-trust fines, yet Sweeney gets away with it.
I don't have any idea of the details of either, but Intel used to see a lot closer to having monopoly issues if it could use its money to deny AMD a place in the market, than Epic seems close to dominating its market.

So I'd suspect there are two different issues. One is the competition in the market, and the other is the specific act of buying exclusivity for a product in the market. The analogy doesn't quite hold, with Intel and AMD selling their products, while Steam and Epic sell others' products.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
4,452
38
91
I have a lot of games on Steam, Origin and Galaxy, and have a few other platforms installed but rarely use them. I always prefer GOG/Galaxy if I see the game available there. In general, I never buy anything on release (since I have a huge backlog of games anyway) and wait until games are under $20 or part of some bundle deals, at which prices the DRM is less annoying. I also have a big library of old games that all work fine on a modern system, and are not tied to any Steam/etc. platform. Some needed no-CD patches or a DirectX wrapper (DGVoodoo), and a few need a XP or 98 VM, but it's all set up now.

Unfortunately, big budget single player games seem to be going away these days, in favor of some multiplayer or cloud model. I wonder if these games will even be playable 10 years from now. I played Dragon Age Inquisition recently, which is several years old now and needed an external website and account to import choices from previous games, unlike all the previous Bioware RPGs. I can also see streaming services like Stadia becoming more mainstream in the future and eventually having exclusive games you can only get on there, which would be really bad for consumers. Everything is going toward a paid subscription model these days.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,496
329
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I don't why I can't get Galaxy to use steam games right. I'm not clear where the game is when I start it, but then Galaxy says 'starting Steam to install game' and that's it. Doesn't run it, it's not installed on Steam, etc.
 
Feb 4, 2009
26,737
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I don't why I can't get Galaxy to use steam games right. I'm not clear where the game is when I start it, but then Galaxy says 'starting Steam to install game' and that's it. Doesn't run it, it's not installed on Steam, etc.
Probably a licensing thing like the game key was sold as activate on Steam not activate on Steam or Galaxy.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,496
329
126
Unfortunately, big budget single player games seem to be going away these days, in favor of some multiplayer or cloud model.
I think financially, the cost of content re-used content a thousand times instead of one-time use is compelling, they make a lot more from those multi-player games replayed than single-player games largely. If players play thousands of times, that's a big market for selling add-ons. And money mostly drives what they make I suspect.
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,434
53
91
I just find it funny that there is a new Anti DRM thread here every few years. Ever since Steam and Starforce I remember there being a giant Anti DRM thread on Anandtech, and now there is yet another one. At first I thought this was just an extension of one of the old ones, but it is from 2018. The more things change, the more they stay the same. (I stopped posting around 2014, since I wanted to get away from the toxic emotional fights on the forum as they were starting to drag me along with them)
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
21,694
521
126
Apple to remove Unreal engine from iOS and Mac Tools
We're starting to see the real effects of walled gardens and locked platforms. This is why WinRT/UWP and the metrosexual app store were rejected on Windows. Nobody wants that garbage.

Facebook accounts to be mandatory for Occulus headsets
I didn't even realize these overpriced Darth Vader monstrosities have cloud DRM attached to them.

Steam refund window of 2 hours not enough for Flight Simulator
Multi-DRM once again is the problem as the main download happens from a non-Steam sever which easily exceeds 2 hours.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,429
1,864
136
I just find it funny that there is a new Anti DRM thread here every few years. Ever since Steam and Starforce I remember there being a giant Anti DRM thread on Anandtech, and now there is yet another one. At first I thought this was just an extension of one of the old ones, but it is from 2018. The more things change, the more they stay the same. (I stopped posting around 2014, since I wanted to get away from the toxic emotional fights on the forum as they were starting to drag me along with them)
Well, there are probabably new threads becuase its a problem that has been progressively getting worse. The shift to streaming and walled gardens is a general trend, not just for games now, but across many different forms of media. In general the on-line environment seems to have increased the level of control that corporations retain of their products and how they are used, and to have reduced the level of choice and control that 'consumers' have. "DRM" may be an inadaquate term to describe that phenomenon in all its forms, but it's not a trend I care for at all.
You might find it 'funny', for power to be grabbed by large corporations, I find it annoying.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,862
2,378
126
Well, there are probabably new threads becuase its a problem that has been progressively getting worse. The shift to streaming and walled gardens is a general trend, not just for games now, but across many different forms of media. In general the on-line environment seems to have increased the level of control that corporations retain of their products and how they are used, and to have reduced the level of choice and control that 'consumers' have. "DRM" may be an inadaquate term to describe that phenomenon in all its forms, but it's not a trend I care for at all.
You might find it 'funny', for power to be grabbed by large corporations, I find it annoying.
The problem is not the DRM at all. The DRM, or Digital Rights Management, is just a tool. The problem is the Digital Rights. We wrote into law that they own everything and we are merely surfs on their platforms. We invented digital feudalism.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,429
1,864
136
The problem is not the DRM at all. The DRM, or Digital Rights Management, is just a tool. The problem is the Digital Rights. We wrote into law that they own everything and we are merely surfs on their platforms. We invented digital feudalism.
But technology has made those 'rights' much easier to assert in a practical way. Previously such 'rights' were always difficult to enforce and practical issues meant they were constantly subject to challenge, to the point where it ceased to be worth the cost of asserting them. The difference now, it seems to me, is that the linked-in, networked, always-on-line world means those 'rights' can be enforced in an ongoing way, potentially-indefinitely, in a way that previously was not possible, or just not worth the expense and effort. So I do think the practical mechanisms involved are significant.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,862
2,378
126
But technology has made those 'rights' much easier to assert in a practical way. Previously such 'rights' were always difficult to enforce and practical issues meant they were constantly subject to challenge, to the point where it ceased to be worth the cost of asserting them. The difference now, it seems to me, is that the linked-in, networked, always-on-line world means those 'rights' can be enforced in an ongoing way, potentially-indefinitely, in a way that previously was not possible, or just not worth the expense and effort. So I do think the practical mechanisms involved are significant.
If the law being enforced is a problem then the problem is with the law. All that is really happening now is that we are seeing the full effect of digital rights.
DRM is not going away. It is only going to get better and better at enforcing the laws. If we want things to get better, we need to change the law.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,429
1,864
136
If the law being enforced is a problem then the problem is with the law. All that is really happening now is that we are seeing the full effect of digital rights.
DRM is not going away. It is only going to get better and better at enforcing the laws. If we want things to get better, we need to change the law.
True, but the pracitcal technology is why that legal change is now a more important issue than it used to be.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,862
2,378
126
True, but the pracitcal technology is why that legal change is now a more important issue than it used to be.
I won't disagree, before we could all pretty much break the law with impunity. Now they can enforce it more strictly.
The question is, do you believe that technology is going to decrease?
It was always just a matter of time before the technology caught up. It is not going away, it will just keep getting worse.
The tools are just the symptom. The digital rights were always the problem.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
21,694
521
126
Hitman 3 and Crysis remastered are Epic exclusives. Remember folks, this is the same platform that's "fighting for developers", by preventing said developers from selling on other platforms. Sweeney is fraudulent trash.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,496
329
126
Hitman 3 and Crysis remastered are Epic exclusives. Remember folks, this is the same platform that's "fighting for developers", by preventing said developers from selling on other platforms. Sweeney is fraudulent trash.
Well, they're 'fighting for developers' in terms of giving them a far larger share of the sales.
 

Artorias

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,160
277
136
So tired of Epic games. They have an abysmal platform that has no functionally. All they do is have the Chinese communist party buy games for their platform, otherwise they would have no sales. Utterly pathetic excuse of a company.

I was going to buy it day 1 on Steam but not anymore.
 
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Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,269
168
106
Hitman 3 and Crysis remastered are Epic exclusives. Remember folks, this is the same platform that's "fighting for developers", by preventing said developers from selling on other platforms. Sweeney is fraudulent trash.
Given Crytek's recent financial woes, they probably needed the immediate cash of the exclusivity deal.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
21,694
521
126
Serious Sam 4 and Control Ultimate Edition will be available DRM-free on GOG.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
21,694
521
126
Facebook stops Occulus sales in Germany due to possible violations of their privacy laws: https://www.techpowerup.com/271764/facebook-technologies-stops-sales-of-oculus-vr-headset-in-germany

That's right, a device supposed to display images is potentially violating user privacy laws through its DRM.

Whats next?
A PSU that won't turn on unless you connect online first?
How about an office chair that won't allow you to sit on it unless you log on?
Maybe a power cord that won't transmit electricity unless you authenticate yourself first?

We're heading in the wrong direction, folks.
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,429
1,864
136
Facebook stops Occulus sales in Germany due to possible violations of their privacy laws: https://www.techpowerup.com/271764/facebook-technologies-stops-sales-of-oculus-vr-headset-in-germany

That's right, a device supposed to display images is potentially violating user privacy laws through its DRM.

Whats next?
A PSU that won't turn on unless you connect online first?
How about an office chair that won't allow you to sit on it unless you log on?
Maybe a power cord that won't transmit electricity unless you authenticate yourself first?

We're heading in the wrong direction, folks.

Stop giving them ideas!!!
 
Feb 4, 2009
26,737
7,261
136
Could someone give me an overview of the Epic Store hate?
I totally understand the exclusives thing, is there more to it than that?
 

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