The anti-crypto thread

[BFG10K]

Great news, crypto's collapsing across the board: https://www.techpowerup.com/282380/...ions-in-less-than-24-hours-did-the-bubble-pop

Also China's banned crypto, though individuals can still have it: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-122712260.html

The sooner this cancerous parasite is wiped out, the better.

 

[AdamK47]

Mining and crypto are a hobby for me so what exactly is the difference?

A PC hardware/gaming hobby is driven by personal entertainment. The crypto hobby is driven by greed. Any extraneous enjoyment derived from it has its origins in greed.

And since you said differences, let's not forget the massive difference in worldwide energy consumption and all the ill effects that entails. Greed offsets the notion of harm being done.

Let's also not forget the damage it causes to hardware availability. With the difference here being the smug indifference crypto bros have to those wanting the hardware for its original purpose, simple individual entertainment. Again, greed.

There are more I'm sure others can come up with. The crypto hobby, if that's how it's going to be spun, has darker origins in comparison.

 

[DrMrLordX]

So I actually googled it real quick. One study puts global PC gaming power draw at about one terawatt hour each year. That's a lot of power, yeah.
...But bitcoin alone takes well over one hundred terawatt hours a year. For seven transactions a second, theoretical maximum.

Bitcoin has long since ceased to use enthusiast hardware. It uses specialized equipment that is designed for one thing and one thing alone: SHA256 hashpower. And yeah, Bitcoin's txn rate is pretty awful. If people said, "get rid of Bitcoin and examine all the other projects on a case-by-case basis" then fine! But that's not what people say. Instead you get crap like:

The crypto hobby, if that's how it's going to be spun, has darker origins in comparison.

Darker origins? Cmon now.

 

[AdamK47]

Bitcoin has long since ceased to use enthusiast hardware. It uses specialized equipment that is designed for one thing and one thing alone: SHA256 hashpower. And yeah, Bitcoin's txn rate is pretty awful. If people said, "get rid of Bitcoin and examine all the other projects on a case-by-case basis" then fine! But that's not what people say. Instead you get crap like:



Darker origins? Cmon now.

It wouldn't be a hobby for people if it didn't directly translate into monetary value.

It's not distributed computing where people do it for scientific endeavors with no expectation of money coming their way. Those people appear saintly by comparison.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It wouldn't be a hobby for people if it didn't directly translate into monetary value.

It's not distributed computing where people do it for scientific endeavors with no expectation of money coming their way. Those people appear saintly by comparison.

I mean, you can quibble about what is or isn't a hobby all you like, but I don't associate people wanting to make money automatically with "darker origins". As if Montgomery Burns himself is burning children in a furnace to power his mining rigs (because, you know, his leaky nuke plant just isn't evil enough).

 

[VirtualLarry]

It's not distributed computing where people do it for scientific endeavors with no expectation of money coming their way. Those people appear saintly by comparison.

FLUX (I think it's FLUX) is toying with the idea of PoUW - Proof of Useful Work. So, maybe those two domains could be combined? If so, since you apparently support DC as a hobby - would you then support Crypto, if it moved to a PoUW model?

 

[DrMrLordX]

FLUX (I think it's FLUX) is toying with the idea of PoUW - Proof of Useful Work. So, maybe those two domains could be combined? If so, since you apparently support DC as a hobby - would you then support Crypto, if it moved to a PoUW model?

CureCoin and GRIDCoin did it already, but it was too little/too late.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It wouldn't be a hobby for people if it didn't directly translate into monetary value.

It might surprise you, but some of these blockchain projects are very much at the cutting edge of tech, and some miners mine certain coins / blockchains, not that they expect a profit, but just to support projects that they believe in.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

It might surprise you, but some of these blockchain projects are very much at the cutting edge of tech, and some miners mine certain coins / blockchains, not that they expect a profit, but just to support projects that they believe in.

Honestly? If the crypto market crashes hard enough and we get a long crypto winter where the FOMO finally dies? It, unironically, might be the best thing that could happen for crypto since then people would actually focus on the tech. I, personally, would still be cynical about it, but if it was only really used in small-scale testing or lab environments as people test and build on it, I wouldn't be here and posting.

 

[BFG10K]

2018.

Where? The tweet is dated May 2021.

Mining and crypto are a hobby for me so what exactly is the difference?

You're asking what's the difference between a gaming rig typically running <8 hours/day, and a mining warehouse full of thousands of GPUs running 24/7?

Here's another hint: gamers don't cause tech shortages, high prices, or collapse power grids. The cryptobros do.

Gamers made the GPU industry what it is today. Then parasitic cryptobros came along and started leaching off it, like diseased vultures.

Cryptobros are a virus. A cancer. A plague. Any region they infect gets destabilized with tech shortages, high pricing, and electricity issues. When local authorities cut them out, they move to the next region to latch on and start the destruction again.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bit-mining-begins-moving-thousands-184000173.html

 

[AdamK47]

FLUX (I think it's FLUX) is toying with the idea of PoUW - Proof of Useful Work. So, maybe those two domains could be combined? If so, since you apparently support DC as a hobby - would you then support Crypto, if it moved to a PoUW model?

That would be a broader hard sell to make it successful. People see crypto/blockchains as an avenue for personal gain.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Where? The tweet is dated May 2021.

2018 was the last major crypto crash. What we got in May 2021 barely registers in comparison.

 

[BFG10K]

2018 was the last major crypto crash. What we got in May 2021 barely registers in comparison.

Those exchanges collapsed in May 2021 like the Tweet clearly states. Your personal opinion of a "crash" is irrelevant to this objective fact.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

You'd also need to explain why gamers will pay double MSRP for a GPU, but the console prices aren't approaching the same levels. In some cases the market price is higher for a GPU that's no more powerful than what you could get from one of these next generation consoles. I just checked eBay and the PS5 and Xbox consoles getting bids are rarely more than 25% over MSRP.

Shoot the 1660 Super is selling for $550 to $600 new in today's sold listings on ebay and $450 to $550 used, when that card gets murdered by the PS5 and Series X (I have a 1660 Super and a PS5 and the 1660 Super doesn't hold a candle to the PS5). And unlike gpus, you can actually get PS5 and Series X for MSRP if you're diligent, or MSRP + $13 (for a month of Walmart+) if you want to get in on the Walmart+ drops.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Shoot the 1660 Super is selling for $550 to $600 new in today's sold listings on ebay and $450 to $550 used, when that card gets murdered by the PS5 and Series X (I have a 1660 Super and a PS5 and the 1660 Super doesn't hold a candle to the PS5). And unlike gpus, you can actually get PS5 and Series X for MSRP if you're diligent, or MSRP + $13 (for a month of Walmart+) if you want to get in on the Walmart+ drops.

The new consoles are the real deal. They have Zen 2 CPU's as well. The previous consoles were garbage. They say the consoles GPU's are somewhere between a 2060 and a 2070.

 

[BFG10K]

 

[VirtualLarry]

Gamers made the GPU industry what it is today.

So, so clueless. If GPUs are "only for gamers", then why do they stack 10s to 100s of thousands of them in super-computer clusters. For an army of researchers to play games and "cool off" after a hard day of thinking? Or do you think that perhaps, modern GPUs offer more than "just gaming".

If GPUs were limited in scope to just gaming, they'd still be just as niche as 3D accelerators in 1998.

You're asking what's the difference between a gaming rig typically running <8 hours/day, and a mining warehouse full of thousands of GPUs running 24/7?

You've obviously never seen a modern datacenter...

 

[VirtualLarry]

Here's another hint: gamers don't cause tech shortages, high prices, or collapse power grids. The cryptobros do.

Gamers made the GPU industry what it is today. Then parasitic cryptobros came along and started leaching off it, like diseased vultures.

Should I start in on how much $$$ those oh-so-saintly "Gamers" cost the industry in LOST REVENUE due to PC GAME PIRACY and GREY-MARKET PURCHASES?

"Cryptobros" don't.

 

[gdansk]

Should I start in on how much $$$ those oh-so-saintly "Gamers" cost the industry in LOST REVENUE due to PC GAME PIRACY and GREY-MARKET PURCHASES?

"Cryptobros" don't.

Is it a joke? Presumably gamers are also responsible for approximately 100% of game purchases (excluding gifts).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Is it a joke? Presumably gamers are also responsible for approximately 100% of game purchases (excluding gifts).

No, no joke. Piracy runs rampant across "gamers". Cryptobros don't pirate software.

 

[AdamK47]

So, so clueless. If GPUs are "only for gamers", then why do they stack 10s to 100s of thousands of them in super-computer clusters. For an army of researchers to play games and "cool off" after a hard day of thinking? Or do you think that perhaps, modern GPUs offer more than "just gaming".

If GPUs were limited in scope to just gaming, they'd still be just as niche as 3D accelerators in 1998.


You've obviously never seen a modern datacenter...

He's referring to off the shelf consumer grade GPUs which has touted gaming as their performance pursuits. Those same consumer GPUs are now being snatched up by those looking to scalp or put them into crypto mining slavery.

There was a time not too long ago where GPUs were being sold to targeted segments. Gaming was of course one of them. Only on paper is that still true today. Crypto invaded it and claimed the segment as its own.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

That's why the argument against cryptocurrency often falls flat for me. It's typically loaded emotional appeals, terribly flawed reasoning, or any number of other poor arguments that crumble under casual examination. Even the countries that have been banning currencies like Bitcoin or Ethereum have no problem creating their own, fully government controlled currencies. The genie is out of the bottle and it doesn't look as though it will ever go back. I certainly wouldn't complain if cryptocurrencies went away and I could get a cheaper GPU, but I'm not going to call for them to be made illegal, because what argument would I have when someone wants to make something that I enjoy illegal?

There is a slight flaw in that reasoning, since mining* can overload local grids since it uses quite a lot of power. Which means power outages. Those can actually harm people. So there there can be a negative cost to society. That, and it also drives up power costs, which negatively affects everyone. And their dog.

*No, not your local friendly hobby mining farm. Those are unlikely to use more then a heatpump or two. The big outfits.

 

[DeathReborn]

No, no joke. Piracy runs rampant across "gamers". Cryptobros don't pirate software.

Part of the piracy issue is the lack of demos, demise of shareware and some quite shockingly bad games making some pirate before purchase. There are some who purely pirate, some who never do & I'd say most are a bit of both. Also, good luck trying to prove that your fellow cryptobros don't pirate software...

 

[DrMrLordX]

Those exchanges collapsed in May 2021 like the Tweet clearly states. Your personal opinion of a "crash" is irrelevant to this objective fact.

It's relevant to the fact that the "collapse" of exchanges more likely coincides with a cloud service outage than a market downturn. An objective (read: mine) analysis of whether or not an actual crash has occurred informs us to what might have lead to the outrage; namely, the outage was not triggered by a crash, but may well have triggered a dip. In other words, you're completely backwards.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

The new consoles are the real deal. They have Zen 2 CPU's as well. The previous consoles were garbage. They say the consoles GPU's are somewhere between a 2060 and a 2070.

PS5 is supposed to be more like 2070/2070 Super but with weaker RT and Series X like 2080/2080 Super but with weaker RT. They're way better than 2060 though.

 

[darkswordsman17]

CureCoin and GRIDCoin did it already, but it was too little/too late.

Which is precisely what people are telling you is the problem. Any attempt to do something worthwhile with this gets ruined by greedy people. But we get perpetual defense and claims that it will at some point transform into something so useful it'll save humanity.

It might surprise you, but some of these blockchain projects are very much at the cutting edge of tech, and some miners mine certain coins / blockchains, not that they expect a profit, but just to support projects that they believe in.

People like you have been saying this for years with literally nothing actually backing it up. Crypto/blockchain is not new or cutting edge. Its just blown up because they convinced a bunch of idiots that don't know anything about anything to invest real money to gain digital numbers then in turn effectively make a pyramid scheme out of it.

No, no joke. Piracy runs rampant across "gamers". Cryptobros don't pirate software.

If you think cryptobros don't pirate you're more delusional than I thought. Granted its borderline amusing watching you constantly reach for ever more hilarious nonsensical arguments to try and defend this garbage behavior. But seriously, you're arguing a group of people who are entirely focused on accruing wealth don't pirate stuff? The cryptobros I know brag about how much they've pirated, or did until literally everything they talk about is about cryptocurrency. And its not like they suddenly started paying for that stuff, they still pirate everything they just no longer view it as some societal status symbol to act like they see all the newest popular movies/shows via being smart (because they legit view torrenting as some masterful knowledge that only non-plebians know about), but rather to brag about crypto.