The Angry Rich

[JMapleton]

The bolded is a damn shame. It may not be rewarding work or highly educated work, but it is still someone creating or making something people use on a daily bases. Just because it may seem like a low end job does not mean you cant take pride in it.

What I'm saying is, you can make a living, but not a nice one. Factory jobs are low wage jobs and you cannot expect to do anything more than scrape by.

They still have a purpose in America, not everyone can be a doctor and many of these jobs can be had by poor people working their way through education.

I also never said anything about pride but a person should take pride in their hopes and ambitions, not in an expectation of a life of factory drudgery. Nothing wrong with working in a factory, as long as you're going somewhere with it.

 

[Zebo]

That only works when there are other jobs.

A company doesn't need quality customer service anymore in the age of 'throw-away' electronics. FFS it is cheaper to buy a new printer than it is to buy ink for it.

Bad example. Not if you get a Xerox wax printer. Printer costs a bit more up front as in $1500 I think we paid. but consumables are $14 for 6000pp each color.

 

[dank69]

Customer service and quality control are two different things.
In regards to quality control, if a company makes shitty products, nobody will buy them.
Customer service is often one of the most important departments of a company. Not everybody makes widgets. In many companies, customers must interface directly with customer service in order to conduct business. If you don't offer quality customer service, the client will simply go elsewhere.

People buy shitty made in China products by the truckload from Walmart every day.

 

[dank69]

Bad example. Not if you get a Xerox wax printer. Printer costs a bit more up front as in $1500 I think we paid. but consumables are $14 for 6000pp each color.

Exceptions do not make it a bad example. I didn't say it was a rule.

 

[punjabiplaya]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704129204575506051919012596.html
"advice for the poor rich"

 

[JeepinEd]

People buy shitty made in China products by the truckload from Walmart every day.

Let's say you're in the market for a new TV. Brand A is known for building quality products and brand B is known for building crappy products. They both cost the same and both are made in China. Which brand will you buy?

 

[KGB]

Mr. Krugman perfectly articulates my rage with his column.
I am going to deliberately earn less money so I don't have to pay the same taxes I did 10 years ago.

 

[JMapleton]

an exclusive white collar economy is going to collapse under its own weight. Until we see growth in the blue collar sectors, our CEOs will eventually see the same collapse our middle class currently is. when our blue collar sector is successful, the rest of our economy will be.

I never said we shouldn't have these jobs, but these jobs are not tickets to raising a family in luxury and having the "American Dream." They are stepping stones to something more.

Also, we are a nation of immigrants and immigrants can fill these jobs easily, which lowers the cost of goods made in the USA and keeps the money here.

 

[dank69]

Let's say you're in the market for a new TV. Brand A is known for building quality products and brand B is known for building crappy products. They both cost the same and both are made in China. Which brand will you buy?

Do you need to ask that question? How about this one:

Let's say you're in the market for a new TV. Brand A is known for building quality products and brand B is known for building crappy products. Brand A is made in USA and costs $1000 while Brand B is made in China and costs $300. They both look the same on the shelf to every Joe Shmoe that walks into the store. Which brand will sell more units? Which brand will generate more revenue?

 

[soulcougher73]

Let's say you're in the market for a new TV. Brand A is known for building quality products and brand B is known for building crappy products. They both cost the same and both are made in China. Which brand will you buy?

We dont really have that anymore though. Its more like Brand A is known for building mostly crappy products, while Brand B is known for building crappy products.

The only diference is one is slightly more crappy then the other, but both are crap. Gone are the days of quality products for a respectable price. Hell Pioneer Plasma was a quality product but sold for quite a bit more then Samsung and Panasonic. Look what happened to them. They got out of the plasma business in favor on inferior products people could afford.

 

[Throckmorton]

What I'm saying is, you can make a living, but not a nice one. Factory jobs are low wage jobs and you cannot expect to do anything more than scrape by.

They still have a purpose in America, not everyone can be a doctor and many of these jobs can be had by poor people working their way through education.

I also never said anything about pride but a person should take pride in their hopes and ambitions, not in an expectation of a life of factory drudgery. Nothing wrong with working in a factory, as long as you're going somewhere with it.

Why exactly should a factory job be a low wage job?

 

[spidey07]

Why exactly should a factory job be a low wage job?

It's really not. Auto factories are really good jobs with great benefits. With overtime they approach 80K+. Any movement to team leader or above and you're looking at 100K and higher. These are for non-union shops as well.

 

[JMapleton]

Why exactly should a factory job be a low wage job?

If some guy in China can do it 99% just as well for $2/hour, why should some guy in America get paid $20/hour to do it? (keep in mind, I'm talking about unskilled or low skilled factory jobs). The term "factory job" can vary wildly.

It's about skill, training, and difficulty.

At my job, they attempted to outsource some of our entry level sales positions and it was a miserable disaster. Even for the reduced pay of the people in the foreign country, the company still made more money by paying us in the US. This is not the case for everyone's job.

 

[soulcougher73]

I never said we shouldn't have these jobs, but these jobs are not tickets to raising a family in luxury and having the "American Dream." They are stepping stones to something more.

Also, we are a nation of immigrants and immigrants can fill these jobs easily, which lowers the cost of goods made in the USA and keeps the money here.

While i agree it would be nice if people strived for more then factory jobs, replacing them with cheap immigrant slave labor does not sound very civilized to me. As you said not everyone can be a doctor, so we need a strong middle class filled with manufaturing jobs so these people can buy goods etc. creating even more jobs with their demands for goods. Having them making minimum wage does not help them get by. These are the people we need affording decent starter homes and raising families. But instead we outsourse their job to some kid in China making 2cents an hour.

 

[shira]

I think this is all that needs to be pointed out about krugman and those who lap up his sort of drivel. To krugman and the slime that nod to his BS - it's not your money - it's the gov'ts.

Look, you troll. According to you, taxes should be zero. Because even a single penny paid in taxes is the "government taking my money."

Let's see if you can get the following through your concrete skull:

From our current state of taxation and benefits, who should be contributing more to reduce the deficit, the rich or everybody else? The rich want the bottom 95% to give money back, in the form of reduced benefits. That's what's meant by "cutting government spending" - cut programs that primarily benefit the middle and lower classes.

Of course, the rich want to KEEP all their own benefits, and even increase them, in the form of still more beneficial tax treatment. Us plain folk think the rich should bear a disproportionate burden in reducing the deficit. But trolls like you think that means "government taking my money."

You're a fool.

 

[JMapleton]

While i agree it would be nice if people strived for more then factory jobs, replacing them with cheap immigrant slave labor does not sound very civilized to me. As you said not everyone can be a doctor, so we need a strong middle class filled with manufaturing jobs so these people can buy goods etc. creating even more jobs with their demands for goods. Having them making minimum wage does not help them get by. These are the people we need affording decent starter homes and raising families. But instead we outsourse their job to some kid in China making 2cents an hour.

You're exaggerating on both ends.

Chinese labor costs are skyrocketing and eventually, people in China will be making enough money to begin to purchase American made goods. It's not happening much yet, but it will. These products are not made by 10 year olds making a penny an hour.

Secondly, very very few people in this country make minimum wage including the lowest of the factory laborers. Making $10 to $15 per hour is a much more fair wage, instead of the $25+ you saw in the past, and even the $50+ in the auto industry.

Thirdly, it's partially the American people's fault for buying cheap goods at Walmart. When was the last time you bought an American made pair of jeans? Or shoes? They make them. I buy them. But people would rather wear the $20 pair of jeans or the $30 pair of shoes. Blame the American people, they are destroying their own country.

 

[JeepinEd]

Do you need to ask that question? How about this one:

Let's say you're in the market for a new TV. Brand A is known for building quality products and brand B is known for building crappy products. Brand A is made in USA and costs $1000 while Brand B is made in China and costs $300. They both look the same on the shelf to every Joe Shmoe that walks into the store. Which brand will sell more units? Which brand will generate more revenue?

Touche'.
I don't think there are any TV's still made in the US are there? My point is that you stated that good customer service is no longer necessary, while I maintain that it is. In an apples to apples comparison the service with better customer service will usually win. I also noted that there is a difference between customer service and product quality. They are two separate, but integral parts of a company.

I would personally buy the TV made in the US. Hell, I go out of my way to find stuff made here, but it's not easy. You have to ask yourself, though, why does it cost so much more to build stuff in the US?

 

[sao123]

I never said we shouldn't have these jobs, but these jobs are not tickets to raising a family in luxury and having the "American Dream." They are stepping stones to something more.

Also, we are a nation of immigrants and immigrants can fill these jobs easily, which lowers the cost of goods made in the USA and keeps the money here.

well apparently the american dream has changed. the american dream used to be owning a house, and raising a family.

It was never about raising a family in luxery... but right now our factory jobs cant even afford to have a house and raise a family.
This is unacceptable.

 

[soulcougher73]

Touche'.
I don't think there are any TV's still made in the US are there? My point is that you stated that good customer service is no longer necessary, while I maintain that it is. In an apples to apples comparison the service with better customer service will usually win. I also noted that there is a difference between customer service and product quality. They are two separate, but integral parts of a company.

I would personally buy the TV made in the US. Hell, I go out of my way to find stuff made here, but it's not easy. You have to ask yourself, though, why does it cost so much more to build stuff in the US?

That is easy to answer. Because we are a first world country with first world prices. We cant compete with third would countries on labor, its an unfair game being played by corporations. They want us to work for less money but continue paying the same cost of living we have now in the US.

 

[Ldir]

The economy is outstanding for rich people - some hedge fund managers made 2 billion last year! (and paid 15%)

I that's the whole point. Who is getting the fruits of our labors. Bankers, hedge fund managers or us?

That is outrageous. That one income is enough to pay for 20,000 good white collar jobs or 40,000 blue collar jobs. It is no wonder we have so much unemployment.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

There was a time when America's wealthiest realized that it was a privilege to pay big taxes on big money...

Yep, and the truly wealthy (Gates,Buffet,etc...) have always understood that. It's not the top .001 of truly wealthy thats the problem it's the wannabe's between .001 and .02 that are absolutely consumed with greed. And make no mistake it it 100% pure unadultrated GREED that drives them. They will bemoan the virtues of personal resposibility and try and claim money is solely derived from talent and effort, but the truth is if they have $99 and you have $1 they won't sleep until that take that $1 from you.

The truly wealthy .0001 understand that they need the masses to be productive and satisfied for them to maintain their position, and to that end they have no problem contributing larger portions of their wealth to make that happen. But the billionaire wannabe class of millionaires and near millionaires that number in the hundreds of thousands have their blinders firmly on and can see nothing except the relentless pursuit of becomeing the next Walton, or Gates or Buffet, and fuck anyone that stands in their way.

For these folks its all about the cash, and regardless of their righteous claims to the contrary they don't give a damn about the general public and see them only as a means to get what they want, and if that means throwing the middle class to the wolves they have no problem with that.

This is the group that drives right wing politics and hold the nutsacks of most of the elected officials in Washinton. This group is so entirely consumed and blinded by greed that they will put their own long term survival in jeopardy in an attempt to further their material pursuits. (Witness the current state of politics and the decline of the GOP in recent years).

In the face of mounting anger by the general public against the corporate managed puppets in Washington these corporate eliteists have manged to survive a democratic take over of congress and the executive branch, and still managed to perpetuate the bad policies that wrecked out economy while filling their pockets. They have effectively shown that our government no longer represents the interest of the majority. Through obstructionism, parlimentary tricks and an in your face FUCK YOU to the American people they have made it painfully clear that it's money not votes that rules our government.

And now with mid term elections approaching they are trying to reverse their recent losses in Congress by claiming to represent the majority "We the people" and return to the same diastrous policies that sent us spiraling into a near depression, and has devistated the working class.

I have no doubt that like other aristocrocies of the past, that this group is so blinded to the realities that if allowed to continue will plunder the working class until the system collapses and they lose everything.

 

[dank69]

Touche'.
I don't think there are any TV's still made in the US are there? My point is that you stated that good customer service is no longer necessary, while I maintain that it is. In an apples to apples comparison the service with better customer service will usually win. I also noted that there is a difference between customer service and product quality. They are two separate, but integral parts of a company.

Of course not, and you ask why:

I would personally buy the TV made in the US. Hell, I go out of my way to find stuff made here, but it's not easy. You have to ask yourself, though, why does it cost so much more to build stuff in the US?

Please don't tell me you think it is because of government regulation and taxes. Even if those make the true cost of an employee that earns $20/hr cost the company $30/hr it still pales in comparison to someone in Korea that does the 'same' job for less than $1/hr.

 

[soulcougher73]

That is outrageous. That one income is enough to pay for 20,000 good white collar jobs or 40,000 blue collar jobs. It is no wonder we have so much unemployment.

OMG Dont let the GOP hear you say that. Their is no such thing as too much money to them.

While that kind of money would be nice. I personally would feel guilty and give most of it away. I could never spend that much money so why horde it while others "just get by". Cant take it with you so whats the point. My life does not derive meaning by how large my bank account can get. It is pure greed.

I really think there are just 2 kinds of people when it comes to this issue. There is the "Its all about me and fuck everyone else" people, and the "I will sacrafice for the betterment of my society/country" people. I am the latter, but by no means to i enjoy letting people get a free ride off the government teet. If we all work together, we can make this a better country. But with so many me me me people, and so many lazy entitlement people, the few stuck in the middle get screwed.

 

[Moonbeam]

I never said one word about taxing the poor. Illiterate prick.

If you don't want to say a word about taxing the poor then don't refer to sending their bill to the rich. They either have a bill or they don't. You either delight in not saying what you mean or don't know how to.

 

[CycloWizard]

If you don't want to say a word about taxing the poor then don't refer to sending their bill to the rich. They either have a bill or they don't. You either delight in not saying what you mean or don't know how to.

Their bill is being sent to the rich. Increasing taxes on the rich is simply adding to this burden, in every way taking money directly from the rich and giving it to the poor. This is now the largest portion of the federal budget.