The AMD Mantle Thread

[ShintaiDK]

Soon.

When is "soon"? Next month, 3 months, 6 months, more? Whats the official statement on it?

Last DICE statement was they threw in the towel and cancelled everything else but bugfixes for a good long term.

 

[blackened23]

Soon.

Do you have inside information or can you substantiate this statement with actual proof, considering the state of the BF4 game being buggy? EA is presumably going to take care of the game bugs first as a priority before working on DLC or Mantle. Citation please?

 

[brandon888]

what is the expecting boost on my Radeon 7950 for BF4 ? 20-30% ? or even less ? or it's hard talk about any numbers aTM ?

 

[Lonbjerg]

So far there is nothing but PR slides...

 

[Falafil]

How is it working out for DICE again? When is the patch coming, if ever?

What does this have to do with AMD's Mantle?
EA is being sued because they released a broken game, and they've stated they're going to halt all current projects including Mantle until they've fixed the game.

 

[NTMBK]

When is "soon"? Next month, 3 months, 6 months, more? Whats the official statement on it?

Last DICE statement was they threw in the towel and cancelled everything else but bugfixes for a good long term.

It'll be done when it's done. *shrug* They never gave a firm release date, so there's no real reason to panic. I expect/hope that it will be out in time for the Kaveri release.

 

[NTMBK]

So far there is nothing but PR slides...

That is generally the situation for any product that has not been released yet, yes.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It'll be done when it's done. *shrug* They never gave a firm release date, so there's no real reason to panic. I expect/hope that it will be out in time for the Kaveri release.

A specific date? No. But this is what Johan said last month.

Andersson stated end of December as the targeted release date.

 

[NTMBK]

Maybe you should check their history, then answer me why they wouldnt.

Marketing is marketing, they are gonna try spin the most positive cases as possible. Even going above and beyond what it can actually do.

And just look at Mantle so far.

Its in consoles! Ups, its not in consoles.
Its open source! Ups, its not open source.
Its super quick and cheap to implement! Ups, its not so easy or cheap after all.
nVidia/Intel can support mantle! Ups, they cant support mantle.

Errm. Please point me towards the statements where AMD said these things.

They never said that it was in consoles; they said that it made porting from consoles easier. In fact they explicitly stated that it wasn't the same as the console APIs, to clear up the rumours that were circulating.
They never said that it was open source.
Where has it been demonstrated that using Mantle is hard or expensive?
AMD have said that Mantle could support any GPU with a compatible minimum feature set, in theory, but since they haven't even launched it on their own platform yet they aren't working on multiplatform. They certainly haven't said "oh no, NVidia and Intel can't have it".

Don't conflate over-excited fanboys (on both sides) with what has actually been said.

 

[NTMBK]

A specific date? No. But this is what Johan said last month.

"Targeting" == the date wasn't fixed in stone. *shrug* And besides, there's still a week left to go.

 

[Falafil]

That is generally the situation for any product that has not been released yet, yes.

I wouldn't call the oxide demo a PR show seeing that 90% of it was jargon only developers would understand.

 

[Skurge]

Do you have inside information or can you substantiate this statement with actual proof, considering the state of the BF4 game being buggy? EA is presumably going to take care of the game bugs first as a priority before working on DLC or Mantle. Citation please?

Are you asking me to provide proof cause I said soon? That can't be a serious question. Yes, EA will probably fix the game before they introduce mantle, but I have no problem with that. They should make sure it works as intended before releasing it to the public. Something they should have done with the base game.

Yes Mantle is probably delayed, but not cause of Mantle, it's cause EA rushed the game out. Some posters seem to be rubbing their hands with glee (not you) that it isn't coming out when DICE said it would and then using that to bash Mantle. If Mantle is a bad as they would have you believe, you wouldn't have 4 games confirmed to be using it in the next few months. Two if those games are Using UE3 and CryEngine, which means you don't need to be the engine designer to implement it.

 

[smackababy]

Yes Mantle is probably delayed, but not cause of Mantle, it's cause EA rushed the game out

I don't know if this is an entirely fair assumption. We don't know why Mantle is delayed. It can be speculated that DICE has diverted resources to fixing current problems in the DX version, but there is no certainty.

 

[Noctifer616]

I don't know if this is an entirely fair assumption. We don't know why Mantle is delayed. It can be speculated that DICE has diverted resources to fixing current problems in the DX version, but there is no certainty.

DICE doesn't work on Mantle anymore. They just need to update their game engine once the Frostbite team is done with implementing Mantle into Frostbite.

 

[mindbomb]

hey guys, you know that common misconception about how when you use crossfire, the vram of the cards adds up, so that two 3 gig cards would have 6 gigs total?

With crossfire under mantle, this could actually be the case, right?

 

[ShintaiDK]

hey guys, you know that common misconception about how when you use crossfire, the vram of the cards adds up, so that two 3 gig cards would have 6 gigs total?

With crossfire under mantle, this could actually be the case, right?

No.

 

[ShintaiDK]

DICE doesn't work on Mantle anymore. They just need to update their game engine once the Frostbite team is done with implementing Mantle into Frostbite.

If thats the case, since the Frostbite spinoff, Mantle for BF4 is not even certain anymore.

And might be the first game to get Mantle support then. Unless its a later patch...

 

[PPB]

If thats the case, since the Frostbite spinoff, Mantle for BF4 is not even certain anymore.

And might be the first game to get Mantle support then. Unless its a later patch...

So Mantle on BF4 wont be anymore, but somehow this isnt contradictory to mantle being available in 15 games being developed right now in FB3.

Gotta kill to know how it feels to live in your little fantasy world, eh.

 

[ShintaiDK]

So Mantle on BF4 wont be anymore, but somehow this isnt contradictory to mantle being available in 15 games being developed right now in FB3.

Gotta kill to know how it feels to live in your little fantasy world, eh.

Are the games listed to use Mantle, or just the Frostbite 3 engine? I dont think a game like NFS:Rivals will be back patched for Mantle.

 

[psoomah]

Maybe you should check their history, then answer me why they wouldnt.

Marketing is marketing, they are gonna try spin the most positive cases as possible. Even going above and beyond what it can actually do.

And just look at Mantle so far.

Its in consoles! Ups, its not in consoles.
Its open source! Ups, its not open source.
Its super quick and cheap to implement! Ups, its not so easy or cheap after all.
nVidia/Intel can support mantle! Ups, they cant support mantle.

Conflicting statements..

As neither AMD nor DICE/EA made such claims (if you think so LINK please) I guess that leaves your nebulous 'their' and 'they' as above. So who might these mysterious 'their' and 'they' entities be?

But again, Mantle can run from its biggest issue. It only works on GCN and it cost to add.

Not big enough issues to deter numerous AAA developers from implementing Mantle. Unless you're privy to some secret information regarding Mantle they aren't?

 

[BrightCandle]

hey guys, you know that common misconception about how when you use crossfire, the vram of the cards adds up, so that two 3 gig cards would have 6 gigs total?

With crossfire under mantle, this could actually be the case, right?

It could in some cases. One of the things AMD mentioned was that you could run different workloads on different GPUs, so they were both rendering the same frame rather than alternate ones. If they are both working on the geometry or post processing of the game image then they may very well need the exact same assets in memory to do that, but there are other workloads for the game (physics, AI and game engine simulation aspects) that wouldn't need the same assets and would most likely need very different assets resulting in less overlap in memory between the two.

Most games though I think will continue to use AFR, its the simpliest thing that works and scales well and in most cases using 2 GPUs to render the same frame is going to be too complicated to be worth the extra effort.

 

[psoomah]

With DICE and EA so obviously and deeply smitten with the future $$$ potentials Mantle is bringing to the table I'm thinking they might be splitting Frostbite, which will have the earliest and most complete Mantle implementation, into it's own unit to make it available to other developers to help drive widespread adoption of Mantle. This would bypass a recalcitrant Unreal and/or put intense pressure on them to support Mantle.

The Frostbite and Nitrous engines alone would cover a very wide range of AAA games and while there's no official word on Cry Engine implementing Mantle, it's all but inconceivable Crytek isn't all over a technology with that potential.

 

[psoomah]

what is the expecting boost on my Radeon 7950 for BF4 ? 20-30% ? or even less ? or it's hard talk about any numbers aTM ?

My plucked from the air guesstimate is 34.56478%. Give or take.

Other than that - too early to know.

 

[psoomah]

When is "soon"? Next month, 3 months, 6 months, more? Whats the official statement on it?

Last DICE statement was they threw in the towel and cancelled everything else but bugfixes for a good long term.

I believe the latest official statement contained the phrase 'heat death of the universe', so ... not that encouraging.

 

[zlatan]

Are the games listed to use Mantle, or just the Frostbite 3 engine? I dont think a game like NFS:Rivals will be back patched for Mantle.

EA is in a special situation. They now have an independent Frostbite team working only on the engine and helping the internal studios. The Frostbite team has the job to bring Mantle to every Frostbite 3 titles. Given how Johan love this project, he will support Mantle on every game. For example Plants vs. Zombies Garden Warfare is not a graphically intensive title, but it will support Mantle, just because Johan's like it. The situation is this simple.

And Johan's told that Mantle and PS4 (libGNM API) will drive their future Frostbite development. They don't care that Intel or NVIDIA don't support it.
If something is really good, and based on the Oxide demo I think Mantle is, than the market will buy the hardwares for it. For the peoples who don't like fragmentation ... well they can choose one of the two shiny new console.