The AMD Mantle Thread

[Yarn]

Deliberately, artificially and actively crippling your competitors is completely different from giving access to something that is specific to your architecture. Even though the end result and motives may be the same, there is a legitimate reason for the lack of openess.

 

[Abwx]

For thoses who asked the source , it has been posted on the Hawai
topic at Hardware.fr by Tridam who is a member of HFR crew , he got
the info from AMD directly and by the way he went to also give
other hints about previous similar tricks with Batman AA where he states
that Nvidia pretended that AMD s GFXs was not MSAA capable as the explanation
why the game didnt provide this feature for radeons but when the card id was masked such that it seemed to be a gforce suddenly everything worked perfectly...

http://forum.hardware.fr/forum2.php...mreponse=0&quote_only=0&new=0&nojs=0#t8918976

 

[Carfax83]

For thoses who asked the source , it has been posted on the Hawai
topic at Hardware.fr by Tridam who is a member of HFR crew , he got
the info from AMD directly and by the way he went to also give
other hints about previous similar tricks with Batman AA where he states
that Nvidia pretended that AMD s GFXs was not MSAA capable as the explanation
why the game didnt provide this feature for radeons but when the card id was masked such that it seemed to be a gforce suddenly everything worked perfectly...

So basically this amounts to hearsay, just like I thought. You can't expect us to believe some random post on a forum somewhere. Unless I see an official post from AMD themselves, I'm going to credit it to exaggeration or even an outright lie.

AMD's latest driver also contains some optimizations for Batman Arkham Origins which increase performance substantially.

Batman Arkham Origins is a TWIMTBP game, but that doesn't mean NVidia has the say in whether AMD is able to optimize for the game or not; maybe for adding features, but not optimizations..

 

[sontin]

So basically this amounts to hearsay, just like I thought. You can't expect us to believe some random post on a forum somewhere. Unless I see an official post from AMD themselves, I'm going to credit it to exaggeration or even an outright lie.

It's AMD. They like to spread fud about others instead of fixing their problems.

It's the same company who crippled Tomb Raider on nVidia cards and now complaining about the same behaviour? Hypocrites like always.

Infraction issued for thread crapping. Two-week vacation for repeat offenses.
-- stahlhart

 

[Abwx]

So basically this amounts to hearsay, just like I thought. You can't expect us to believe some random post on a forum somewhere. Unless I see an official post from AMD themselves, I'm going to credit it to exaggeration or even an outright lie.

Tridam works at Hardware.fr and as he said in his post he got
the info from AMD directly when he asked them about BAC perfs,
so it is not hearsay but a confirmed information , would you imagine
Anand or Ryan Smith posting random infos on their site without fear
of losing their credibility.??..

What i posted is the exact text he got from AMD and he posted
it as it is without adding anything else to their statement , but
if you agree i ll reference your post and send it to him with the
precision that you think that he s a liar that post false infos
on the very site he s officialy doing reviews and wich is known
for the quality of its material , indeed i would trust him well
before you....

AMD's latest driver also contains some optimizations for Batman Arkham Origins which increase performance substantially.

They did what they could with their drivers but it s not enough
since WB refused to implement radeon optimisations in the game
code , something that was perfectly done for Nvidia..

Batman Arkham Origins is a TWIMTBP game, but that doesn't mean NVidia has the say in whether AMD is able to optimize for the game or not; maybe for adding features, but not optimizations..

WB tossed a coin before deciding if they would support the radeon
but unfortunately for AMD the coin ended on the wrong side ,
i think that it s the most rational explanation...

 

[sontin]

So, what it's the difference between WB and Eidos then?
Where is nVidia's hair implementation in Tomb Raider? Or TXAA? Or PhysX? Or HDBA+? Or whatever they developed in the past.

You cant complain about a certain behaviour and then accept it from another company.

If this is real then AMD is really a Hypocrite.

 

[Abwx]

It's AMD. They like to spread fud about others instead of fixing their problems.

It's the same company who crippled Tomb Raider on nVidia cards and now complaining about the same behaviour? Hypocrites like always.

You are the hypocrite and the fud spreader and also an oughtright
liar since everybody knows that a simple patch was enough for the
Gforce to run adequatly in Tomb raider , go see the benches rather
than spreading your viral marketing , while for Batman a patch is not
possible at all for the radeon....

Tomb raider :

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/910-24/benchmark-tomb-raider.html

All high end cards performs about the same..

Batman :

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/910-27/benchmark-batman-arkham-origins.html

But what happen when increasing def.???.yeah , Nvidia crippling
the radeons , that s how they manage to make rubbish cards
looking awsome , actualy their products are not that good
if they need to reduce the competitions perfs , that s what
is obvious , whatever the fans opinions..

 

[Abwx]

So, what it's the difference between WB and Eidos then?
Where is nVidia's hair implementation in Tomb Raider? Or TXAA? Or PhysX? Or HDBA+? Or whatever they developed in the past.

You cant complain about a certain behaviour and then accept it from another company.

If this is real then AMD is really a Hypocrite.

Physics as mantle is proprietary but what Nvidia has done
o, Batman is to lock Directx optimisations for the radeons,
something AMD didnt do on BF as proved by the benchs
but i guess that relevancy and precision are hated
by the usual viral marketers that keep spreading their
usual hjunk whenever they see an AMD related thread.

 

[Carfax83]

Tridam works at Hardware.fr and as he said in his post he got
the info from AMD directly when he asked them about BAC perfs,
so it is not hearsay but a confirmed information , would you imagine
Anand or Ryan Smith posting random infos on their site without fear
of losing their credibility.??..

This is a pretty serious accusation though, and serious accusations demand proof.

WB tossed a coin before deciding if they would support the radeon
but unfortunately for AMD the coin ended on the wrong side ,
i think that it s the most rational explanation...

It seems AMD wanted WB to implement specific GCN optimizations beyond the typical DX11 code path. Being a TWIMTBP game, I can see how WB and NVidia would be against that.

Gaming Evolved titles lack NVidia specific optimizations all the time, but that doesn't stop NVidia from improving performance and optimizing their drivers.

 

[stahlhart]

Thread reopened. This discussion is about Mantle; any further off-topic arguments will be considered thread crapping, as two recent participants here just found out.
-- stahlhart

 

[7stars]

Thread reopened. This discussion is about Mantle; any further off-topic arguments will be considered thread crapping, as two recent participants here just found out.
-- stahlhart

thank you

Spoiler

OT Abwx is right and Nvidia's behavior is incorrect. But above all a developers fault. I think that's permissible to say. anon close OT

please, when Mantle will be officially presented and released SDK? or they will do for BF4 at first and then release for any developer? thanks

Warning issued for callout.
-- stahlhart

 

[ShintaiDK]

please, when Mantle will be officially presented and released SDK? or they will do for BF4 at first and then release for any developer? thanks

AMD said specs and SDK will come out in 2014 or 2015.

 

[BrightCandle]

I thought the spec was coming out this year before the BF4 mantle release. I don't know how I got the impression that it would be coming in November but I do have that impression from somewhere. If its not until 2014 that sucks, I can't really evaluate the whole high/low level thing without seeing the API calls so we can compare it to openGL/DX11

 

[GaiaHunter]

I thought the spec was coming out this year before the BF4 mantle release. I don't know how I got the impression that it would be coming in November but I do have that impression from somewhere. If its not until 2014 that sucks, I can't really evaluate the whole high/low level thing without seeing the API calls so we can compare it to openGL/DX11

There is an AMD event in November.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I thought the spec was coming out this year before the BF4 mantle release. I don't know how I got the impression that it would be coming in November but I do have that impression from somewhere. If its not until 2014 that sucks, I can't really evaluate the whole high/low level thing without seeing the API calls so we can compare it to openGL/DX11

Might not even be 2014, but 2015.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/mantling-alliances-ritchie-corpus-amd-interview/58215.html

Battlefield 4 and FrostBite 3 are the closest to deliver something today. I think, as I mentioned before, the goal would be to provide the spec and SDK publicly.

VRZ: Any timeline to Mantle’s SDK being made public?

It could be as early as sometime next year or maybe the year after.

 

[smackababy]

I thought the spec was coming out this year before the BF4 mantle release. I don't know how I got the impression that it would be coming in November but I do have that impression from somewhere. If its not until 2014 that sucks, I can't really evaluate the whole high/low level thing without seeing the API calls so we can compare it to openGL/DX11

AMD hasn't given a real date for the SDK yet, which means it is nowhere near finished. BF4 Mantle will likely be version 0.5 or something.

I suppose they might be giving the unfinished SDK to big developers that request it, but it doesn't seem to be more than a conceptual idea right now from what we've seen.

 

[psoomah]

AMD said specs and SDK will come out in 2014 or 2015.

Much deeper look at Mantle/specs at APU13.

Release to a governing body/SDK comes out at an indefinite future date when Mantle is 'ready'.

 

[psoomah]

AMD hasn't given a real date for the SDK yet, which means it is nowhere near finished. BF4 Mantle will likely be version 0.5 or something.

I suppose they might be giving the unfinished SDK to big developers that request it, but it doesn't seem to be more than a conceptual idea right now from what we've seen.

AMD said it has been working for years with other developers on Mantle. EA is the most advanced and will be the first out of the gate.

The SDK is well past conceptual if Mantle goes live in December.

 

[zlatan]

Are we sure NFS:Rivals will have Mantle?

No, and I think it won't support Mantle. From EA BF4 is the pilot project, and thats all for this year. On the next year there will be a big push with the new Frostbite 3 titles. There are some rumours in the industry that Crytek already on the board, so the new CryEngine will have Mantle support. Most Square Enix titles will also support the new API, and Oxide Games radically new Nitrous engine is based on Mantle.

 

[Skurge]

No, and I think it won't support Mantle. From EA BF4 is the pilot project, and thats all for this year. On the next year there will be a big push with the new Frostbite 3 titles. There are some rumours in the industry that Crytek already on the board, so the new CryEngine will have Mantle support. Most Square Enix titles will also support the new API, and Oxide Games radically new Nitrous engine is based on Mantle.

Where are you getting all this from?

 

[krumme]

Does it matter what Crytek say and not what practical reality turn out to be?
They know they can hurt feelings of a lot of nv fans.
What matters is number and quality of ports. Secondly speed.

 

[Stuka87]

AMD hasn't given a real date for the SDK yet, which means it is nowhere near finished. BF4 Mantle will likely be version 0.5 or something.

I suppose they might be giving the unfinished SDK to big developers that request it, but it doesn't seem to be more than a conceptual idea right now from what we've seen.

Not sure you understand what "conceptual" means. If it was only in a conceptual state, there would be zero code in place. And since its going live in a month, the API is obviously in a functioning state.

And I would not expect there to be an SDK right off the bat. AMD will work with developers to implement Mantle. An SDK is something that is open which allows near anybody to implement it. AMD is going to want to have tight control overs its first implementations to make sure things work as they should and there are no major issues.

 

[MeldarthX]

And some more info for people to look at....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amds-revolutionary-mantle-graphics-api-130000938.html

 

[smackababy]

And some more info for people to look at....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amds-revolutionary-mantle-graphics-api-130000938.html

I wouldn't really call those companies industry leading. Chris Roberts' company hasn't released a game; Eidos-Montreal has released 2 games and an iOS app; Oxide I can't find any information on, they don't even show up in a google search for "oxide".

 

[SirPauly]

Nice to see more developers -- curious to see the efficiency gains!