The AMD Mantle Thread

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Lonbjerg

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
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jj109 said:
Uh, please elaborate.

Edit: Nevermind, I found the thread. The hardware is willing, but the driver team is ... I'll just stop there.
Click to expand...

It's the same driverteam working on mantle...just to make things even more "fun" ;)
 
J

jj109

Senior member
Dec 17, 2013
391
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ShintaiDK said:
Nobody can be sure the "hardware is willing". Until we see actual support.
Click to expand...

That was supposed to be a NSFW joke, but ok.

It would be seriously brave to plaster DX11.2 all over the box for something that doesn't support DX11.2. I doubt that is the case, though it is always possible to CYA with emulation if things don't pan out.
 
frozentundra123456

frozentundra123456

Lifer
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
Those who think mantle is going to eliminate dx need to look at the big picture. Many cpus, in fact the vast majority, are never used for demanding gaming. In fact I think Intel igps (without a dgpu) must be at least 60% of the market. Then you have nVidia which has at least 50 percent of the dgpu market, and actually the vast majority of the mobile dgpu market where the growth is. In any case I will be charitable and assume amd has 50% of the dgpu market. So thus you are down to a generous estimate that only 20 percent of the market has mantle capable hardware. This is not even considering that a portion of that 20% are not gcn (including all apus sold to date) and will not support mantle. In addition, not all new games will support mantle, and there are a huge number of legacy games that will not support it either.

So bottom line, there is a huge numbers barrier against mantle becoming the default graphics API, because it is hardware specific. As far as Intel and nVidia adopting it, I seriously doubt that will ever happen, both from a political standpoint and no one yet knows how much improvement it will bring to gcn, much less how it would work on Intel or nVidia hardware.
 
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Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
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Look at that, page 148 of this thread..... 25 posts, almost from 3 people alone and all trying to discredit or spread fear/doubt/uncertainty about it.
Lame jokes about drivers ect.

Some claim this forum has marketing people, and im starting to wonder if maybe these 3 people arnt a nvidia group here to just spread fud.

Its just theres so much of it, from the same people.
Its starting to become annouying haveing to read.

Each time I visit this thread hopeing some news of progress has been made, instead all I find is FUD .

Infraction issued for thread crapping.
-- stahlhart
 
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SirPauly

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
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Imho,

Mantle really makes sense for AMD for an APU and SOC perspective, where the growth potential is. It's good to see AMD trying and creating awareness for more efficiency and willing to place resources where their mouth is. Bold and risk and hopefully the market reacts favorably!
 
E

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
OMG. I skipped last 10 pages of this thread because it was all just thrash talk from some people. They tried to lock the thread which didn't work, seems like they try to make it a trashcan. WTF?

Are there any dates about BF4 Mantle?
 
Lonbjerg

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
SirPauly said:
Imho,

Mantle really makes sense for AMD for an APU and SOC perspective, where the growth potential is. It's good to see AMD trying and creating awareness for more efficiency and willing to place resources where their mouth is. Bold and risk and hopefully the market reacts favorably!
Click to expand...

Or AMD is preparing for a time where their CPU performance will fall further and further behind Intel's..and Mantle is a stopgap attempt at remaining relevant.
Their last hope seeem to be "moar cores"...and Mantle seems to fit into that philosophy.
 
Gloomy

Gloomy

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2010
1,469
21
81
Lonbjerg said:
Or AMD is preparing for a time where their CPU performance will fall further and further behind Intel's..and Mantle is a stopgap attempt at remaining relevant.
Their last hope seeem to be "moar cores"...and Mantle seems to fit into that philosophy.
Click to expand...

If they were, then it would work on all GPUs, not just theirs.
 
K

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
frozentundra123456 said:
Those who think mantle is going to eliminate dx need to look at the big picture. Many cpus, in fact the vast majority, are never used for demanding gaming. In fact I think Intel igps (without a dgpu) must be at least 60% of the market. Then you have nVidia which has at least 50 percent of the dgpu market, and actually the vast majority of the mobile dgpu market where the growth is. In any case I will be charitable and assume amd has 50% of the dgpu market. So thus you are down to a generous estimate that only 20 percent of the market has mantle capable hardware. This is not even considering that a portion of that 20% are not gcn (including all apus sold to date) and will not support mantle. In addition, not all new games will support mantle, and there are a huge number of legacy games that will not support it either.

So bottom line, there is a huge numbers barrier against mantle becoming the default graphics API, because it is hardware specific. As far as Intel and nVidia adopting it, I seriously doubt that will ever happen, both from a political standpoint and no one yet knows how much improvement it will bring to gcn, much less how it would work on Intel or nVidia hardware.
Click to expand...

Nonsense, what market are you talking about?

You mix the market for cpu/apu with games.

Intel gpu are not selling games and generating revenue in meaningfull numbers. Game revenue is what matters. The consoles does and gfx from nv and amd.

And obviously dx is not disapearing in 2 or 4 years. Lay that strawman to rest. We will see what performs best and what is easiest to program for. Competition is good. All that negative talk is depressing its a win situation for consumers no matter what happens. If dx is a dog then let it die. If mantle is just hyped let it die. Fine.
 
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Lonbjerg

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
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Gloomy said:
If they were, then it would work on all GPUs, not just theirs.
Click to expand...

You know we are talking about AMD right?
But nice too see that you also think Mantle is irrelevant as long as it only caters to minority portion of the GPU markedet.
 
frozentundra123456

frozentundra123456

Lifer
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
krumme said:
Nonsense, what market are you talking about?

You mix the market for cpu/apu with games.

Intel gpu are not selling games and generating revenue in meaningfull numbers. Game revenue is what matters. The consoles does and gfx from nv and amd.

And obviously dx is not disapearing in 2 or 4 years. Lay that strawman to rest. We will see what performs best and what is easiest to program for. Competition is good. All that negative talk is depressing its a win situation for consumers no matter what happens. If dx is a dog then let it die. If mantle is just hyped let it die. Fine.
Click to expand...

I did not bring up the assertation that dx was disappearing. However, it was specifically stated or implied by several posters. If you want to accuse someone, accuse them. As a matter of fact, you stated that assertion in post 3665.
 
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3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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Lonbjerg said:
I am in denial because I remember this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1E6vLsX2UI
AMD GPU physics demo...

Never came to life...

Like so many other broken promises.

And my ARMA 3 runs just fine...but since renders a MUCH lager world than BF4...you might want to upgrade your hardware...like I said...I run s socket 1366 PC....max settings...I even have the performce overhead to record video's...at max settings ;)
EDIT:
Again i7 990X + Titan running ARMa3 at max settings (view distance 7400 meters)...show me where I am draw call limited?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkHQlId8GfI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUb2qvg7CbWkPLE4wc9ULT4g

Why all the false "arguments"...in defence for PR? ;)
Click to expand...

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you have completely missed the point. The point isn't that you are draw call limited, it's that the game is draw call limited. By design they have to limit the draw calls the game runs so that it can run at an acceptably optimized level with DX. DX, not you is draw call limited.
 
3

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
desprado said:
That what i am saying AMD has a habit to hype alot but when it come to reality it being seen as a lie.If Mantle come of course it will increase the performance but not as much people hoped.As i said Mantle will totally be depended on the system AMD CPU+AMD GPU more performance increase around max 15% and if only AMD GPU and not more than 10%

As a fact if AMD improve there driver they do not need mantle to improve there GPU performance.
Click to expand...

These numbers are just pure wishful thinking. You have no idea what the performance gain is going to be. You have no idea what level of complexity will be able to be added to games through Mantle. You have no idea what, if any, improvements AMD could gain through drivers. You refuse to accept anything that's being said about Mantle and then throw arbitrary numbers out like you know something you don't. You have no idea. Quit making stuff up and using the word fact to describe it.
 
S

SiliconWars

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2012
2,346
0
0
3DVagabond said:
These numbers are just pure wishful thinking. You have no idea what the performance gain is going to be. You have no idea what level of complexity will be able to be added to games through Mantle. You have no idea what, if any, improvements AMD could gain through drivers. You refuse to accept anything that's being said about Mantle and then throw arbitrary numbers out like you know something you don't. You have no idea. Quit making stuff up and using the word fact to describe it.
Click to expand...

We should probably be grateful he has at least he's moved on from just completely denying Mantle's existence.
 
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