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The #1 North Korea 2013 tension thread [with rolling updates!]

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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
Oh no, we are all gonna die at the hand of a country that cannot even fly a missile over a few hundred miles!!!! FEAR FEAR FEAR do what your government tells you, this is not a scam to cover up what we are really trying to do FEAR FEAR FEAR....


mmmm hmmmm...
Don't be naive. They can send a missle much farther than a few hundred miles.

The problem isn't just what they can do now. It's their track record of continually advancing these technologies. Look at the sabre rattling now. Think about it 15 years from now when they can send a missile anywhere in the world and CAN mount a nuke on it.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
4
0

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
4
0
Don't be naive. They can send a missle much farther than a few hundred miles.

The problem isn't just what they can do now. It's their track record of continually advancing these technologies. Look at the sabre rattling now. Think about it 15 years from now when they can send a missile anywhere in the world and CAN mount a nuke on it.
Just because they may eventually develop such technology, does not justify preemption at this point. It would be an advantage to preempt now, but not acceptable
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,285
87
86
North Korea best Korea

/thread

Really though, North Korea/South Korea is a proxy for USA vs China.

NK and China are buddies and SK and USA are buddies. NK gets to say all the expletives China wishes they could say.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,874
4,203
126
Why wouldn't it be acceptable?
My take? It would not because what we do know is that NK makes threats but hasn't taken major action. A strike now would kill thousands and make us look like fools, eliminating any food will or support. We'd be doing Iraq all over again
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,514
24
76
your analysis is correct. See above a link to an article at Nautilus that somebody posted. NK cannot flatten Seoul in any definition of the word.

China wants NK to not have a nuke: http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&external=2082916.proteus.fma#quickPage_html_page_22995_content_91913386_pageNum_1

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Prodigy I think you are misinterpreting much of this thread. Speaking for myself I feel NK offers no risk to the US and is 99% bark. Their regime is entertainment only--at least as far as their threats are concerned. From a human rights perspective it is not entertaining obviously.
Thanks for the confirmation.
----------

I also can't help but think that if NK's human rights violations were front and center in the media and had a decent mindshare of the populace, there would be much more of a push to do something. Syria kills 10000 and lets loose a missle or two over their border into Turkey, and we start hearing about their human rights violations, no doubt in part to prepare us for military action.

But can you imagine if people knew about their gulags? And their 3 generation system of punishment? They have cold war era shit not unlike the USSR, and we rarely hear of it.

I guess its because a minority group is not being oppressed? That everyone is, or are, a potential victim as no real minority group is at play?

And we only know about the stuff a few defectors have given us, I am quite sure the reality is worse in this case.

What more justification do you need? Is the ensuing nightmare of fixing up their country and dealing with their population that much of a roadblock? I can only imagine the planning and money it would take, then again a pound of rice a day would be a huge upgrade per family I imagine. And they no doubt would work their asses off.

Also, we would have hilarious quotes from DCAL30 telling us we lost great leaders, like when Kim Jung Il died.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
4
0
Why wouldn't it be acceptable?
Should we go around attacking just because someone starts mouthing off?

Iraq may have been questionable, NK is not justified.

At present SK is the primary target and they have no interest in a preemptive strike
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
10,266
485
126
Thanks for the confirmation.
----------

I also can't help but think that if NK's human rights violations were front and center in the media and had a decent mindshare of the populace, there would be much more of a push to do something. Syria kills 10000 and lets loose a missle or two over their border into Turkey, and we start hearing about their human rights violations, no doubt in part to prepare us for military action.

But can you imagine if people knew about their gulags? And their 3 generation system of punishment? They have cold war era shit not unlike the USSR, and we rarely hear of it.

I guess its because a minority group is not being oppressed? That everyone is, or are, a potential victim as no real minority group is at play?

And we only know about the stuff a few defectors have given us, I am quite sure the reality is worse in this case.

What more justification do you need? Is the ensuing nightmare of fixing up their country and dealing with their population that much of a roadblock? I can only imagine the planning and money it would take, then again a pound of rice a day would be a huge upgrade per family I imagine. And they no doubt would work their asses off.

Also, we would have hilarious quotes from DCAL30 telling us we lost great leaders, like when Kim Jung Il died.
Syria = you can see pictures and footage of human rights being violated.
NK = not so much.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,514
24
76
Syria = you can see pictures and footage of human rights being violated.
NK = not so much.
Exactly what I was driving at, and a much more succinct way of putting it but then again I tend to be long winded admittedly.

So is NK only a few youtube vids of a gulag in action away from being decapitated? No wonder they are so secretive and paranoid.

Although I think much of the world knows in their gut what really goes on in the DPRK (lol, they have democratic in their name) but turn a blind eye to it. If their people looked more like themselves, maybe things would be different.

I have always wondered what South Korean Intelligence and State Departments have in the way of plans for that potential "oh shit" moment if the North were to fall. Would be so interesting to see how it would be handled.

I was going to add the UN too, but I doubt they have given it much thought.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,514
24
76
That and also it's just happened so long we're all used to it.
Good point, I am sure you are correct.

And to a lessor degree, some of us old timers might just see the North as an extension of cold war angst, and say to hell with 'em, let them drown in their commie soup.

Perhaps when a younger generation is in power in DC, they will view the North as more of a humanitarian conflict than a military one.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
0
If anyone here has a Netflix account, there's a National Geographic documentary on North Korea from 2006, where a journalist team accompanied a Nepalese surgeon on an "aid mission."

Needless to say the situation is fucked, but it's amazing how truly brainwashed these people are. The surgeon is there to treat cataracts, and they went to the home of one of the blind ladies he's working on. She, of course, wanted her blindness cured so she could look upon Dear Leader. When asked why she wanted to see the dear leader so badly, she said it was because her family lived well due to dear leader, and she wanted to see him to thank him.

This was a really moving scene because as she spoke she and everyone else in the room, even the party officials with them, started crying. Legitimately, or so it appeared. At least the tears were visible. And apparently it's all because they were just so moved by her words.

Granted this was a "privileged" family living in Pyong-yang, but still...
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,514
24
76
If anyone here has a Netflix account, there's a National Geographic documentary on North Korea from 2006, where a journalist team accompanied a Nepalese surgeon on an "aid mission."

Needless to say the situation is fucked, but it's amazing how truly brainwashed these people are. The surgeon is there to treat cataracts, and they went to the home of one of the blind ladies he's working on. She, of course, wanted her blindness cured so she could look upon Dear Leader. When asked why she wanted to see the dear leader so badly, she said it was because her family lived well due to dear leader, and she wanted to see him to thank him.

This was a really moving scene because as she spoke she and everyone else in the room, even the party officials with them, started crying. Legitimately, or so it appeared. At least the tears were visible. And apparently it's all because they were just so moved by her words.

Granted this was a "privileged" family living in Pyong-yang, but still...
I've seen that one a couple of times. What really got me was as soon as the patients bandages were removed, and they were able to see again or for the first time, what did they do? Thank the doctors and nurses standing right there? No, they ran up to the nearest image of Dear Leader and started bowing, crying, and thanking him for letting them see him again, and to be able to be of service to him again.

Whenever I see or read the latest from NK, I can't get over just how creepy the place is.

edit: you don't even need a netflix account, it is on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxLBywKrTf4
 
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Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,136
37
91
If anyone here has a Netflix account, there's a National Geographic documentary on North Korea from 2006, where a journalist team accompanied a Nepalese surgeon on an "aid mission."

Needless to say the situation is fucked, but it's amazing how truly brainwashed these people are. The surgeon is there to treat cataracts, and they went to the home of one of the blind ladies he's working on. She, of course, wanted her blindness cured so she could look upon Dear Leader. When asked why she wanted to see the dear leader so badly, she said it was because her family lived well due to dear leader, and she wanted to see him to thank him.

This was a really moving scene because as she spoke she and everyone else in the room, even the party officials with them, started crying. Legitimately, or so it appeared. At least the tears were visible. And apparently it's all because they were just so moved by her words.

Granted this was a "privileged" family living in Pyong-yang, but still...
I've seen that one a couple of times. What really got me was as soon as the patients bandages were removed, and they were able to see again or for the first time, what did they do? Thank the doctors and nurses standing right there? No, they ran up to the nearest image of Dear Leader and started bowing, crying, and thanking him for letting them see him again, and to be able to be of service to him again.

Whenever I see or read the latest from NK, I can't get over just how creepy the place is.

edit: you don't even need a netflix account, it is on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxLBywKrTf4
It's not that they're brainwashed. It's just primal fear. Those doctors don't run the secret police or army and they aren't the law. And these people are slaves to the Kim family. Who would you thank if you knew your life (and family's life) depended on your answer?
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,514
24
76
It's not that they're brainwashed. It's just primal fear. Those doctors don't run the secret police or army and they aren't the law. And these people are slaves to the Kim family. Who would you thank if you knew your life (and family's life) depended on your answer?
I think that is probably accurate for the oldest generation an a good point.

But for the younger generations, who have been indoctrinated since birth, I think brainwashing is accurate too, in addition to the fear component. If teaching kids kids in school that you exist to serve the Leader who comes from a magical mountain vagina isn't brainwashing, I don't know what is.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,313
2
0
In 15 years our laser technology should have control over all airspace.
Half decent odds this is true. US anti-missile tech is going to improve probably at a faster rate than they can create them. As it is even now the only reason NK would be allowed to fire a missile at all is because the US can't be bothered to deny it--but sees the entire process on satellite anyway.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I think that is probably accurate for the oldest generation an a good point.

But for the younger generations, who have been indoctrinated since birth, I think brainwashing is accurate too, in addition to the fear component. If teaching kids kids in school that you exist to serve the Leader who comes from a magical mountain vagina isn't brainwashing, I don't know what is.
Apparently there is a lot of black market tv, radio and dvd going on in NK
People may not be as brainwashed as we think


The secret item found in every North Korean home


Many North Korean families keep a secret item at home, whose discovery may lead to harsh punishment. Away from prying eyes and in the privacy of their homes, North Koreans enjoy using items forbidden by the state, according to North Koreans recently escaped from the country.
&#8220;In every North Korean home, there is at least one secret item&#8221; says Jung Young-chul* (age 34), who escaped from North Korea in 2012. He had a short-wave radio in the house and the family would secretly listen to South Korean broadcasts. To avoid being caught, they kept the radio hidden under a container for keeping rice.
They were not the only ones with a hidden radio. Jung continues, &#8220;Once, a friend described a story that I had heard the night before while listening to a South Korean broadcast. I brought it up with him one night in drink, and he confided that his family too had a radio. We laughed about it together.&#8221;
Kim Hee-young is from Chongjin and also escaped from North Korea in 2012. She tells us, &#8220;We secretly traded South Korean TV shows in the markets and they always went very quickly. We ran out of stock on most days.&#8221; She added how outside the home, North Koreans would dutifully obey the cultural restrictions enforced by the state. Yet at home, Hee-young describes how everything is different: &#8220;Where I lived, I would guess that almost every family owned a South Korean TV show. You can&#8217;t borrow what you want to watch if you don&#8217;t have something to trade it for, so everyone liked to keep at least one show at home.&#8221;
http://newfocusintl.com/secret-item-found-in-every-north-korean-home/
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,322
126
I think that is probably accurate for the oldest generation an a good point.

But for the younger generations, who have been indoctrinated since birth, I think brainwashing is accurate too, in addition to the fear component. If teaching kids kids in school that you exist to serve the Leader who comes from a magical mountain vagina isn't brainwashing, I don't know what is.
Exactly and we have a shitton of real life examples of basically the exact same thing here in the west and around the world with the biggest being religion. Ironically they teach basically the same thing except in NK they can actually see and touch their "god".
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,514
24
76
Exactly and we have a shitton of real life examples of basically the exact same thing here in the west and around the world with the biggest being religion. Ironically they teach basically the same thing except in NK they can actually see and touch their "god".
If by religion you mean the loony 1% fringe fundamentalists who live and breathe it 24/7, maybe. But even then they are free to read a newspaper and are exposed to different ideas just by the fact that they will interact with different people in their daily lives who are not fundies. They still exist in a society where they will be exposed to a multitude of ideas and are free to pick and choose. No one is going to execute them for "crossing the border" so to speak.

So I am not so sure about that but then again I am not religious or from North Korea.
 
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