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The #1 North Korea 2013 tension thread [with rolling updates!]

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Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
10,266
485
126
Please don't quote that stupid ****, it defeats the purpose of putting the bigots and crazies on ignore. Thanks.
Yea, looks like lots of people put him on the ignore list. I'm partially convinced he's trolling. No one can be that stupid- makes KJU look like a scholar.
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
10,266
485
126
April 11, 2013

North Korea warns US and South they are 'unaware of what miserable fate awaits them'. I gotta hand it to them for still being able to come up with new unique threats.

North Korea's Missiles in 'In Upright Position'. I've never seen such transparency of a military, giving you minute details of every step they're taking.

Chinese comic shows an impish Kim Jong-un, standing on a pedestal and urinating on the United States, Japan and South Korea. Off to one side, China leans on its cane and says, “Stupid child, you’re asking for death.



混小子,找死
More direct translation is, "Reckless boy, looking for death."
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,136
37
91
April 11, 2013

North Korea warns US and South they are 'unaware of what miserable fate awaits them'. I gotta hand it to them for still being able to come up with new unique threats.

North Korea's Missiles in 'In Upright Position'. I've never seen such transparency of a military, giving you minute details of every step they're taking.

Chinese comic shows an impish Kim Jong-un, standing on a pedestal and urinating on the United States, Japan and South Korea. Off to one side, China leans on its cane and says, “Stupid child, you’re asking for death.



混小子,找死
More direct translation is, "Reckless boy, looking for death."
I'm glad you find all this so entertaining. Although, from your POV it is quite understandable. See, Korea has always been a vassal state, surrounded by powerful neighbors in the west, north, and east. If they weren't paying tutelage to China it was to Japan. This has been their history. It was with great shame when Imperial Japan surrendered to the United States instead of the KLA. Therefore, N. Korea, despite threatening S. Korea, is something many Koreans are proud of because it is the first time one of their own have stood up to a powerful nation. First, it was the Forgotten War, then it is the constant threats and deep hatred against the United States. Koreans, even S. Koreans, enjoy seeing one of their own not look weak and impish for the first time. Even S. Korea, despite being wealthy, is still impish since it has US forces in its homeland. And S. Koreans never stand up to their ancient master, China. This could be seen two weeks ago when S. Korean banks and media was hacked. It was clearly coming from China (via N. Korea?) but S. Korea was too afraid to admit so. This submissiveness is clearly different from Japan or Taiwan or Vietnam, who went to war with China in the late 1970s.

So, this is your psyche, Zeze, and I understand it very well. But it does not change the fact that the monster that you look up to wants to destroy your homeland and kill your people out of primal sibling rivalry. It also does not change the fact that N. Korea, a country that you are so fascinated by, is human tragedy that is still beholden to your ancient master, China.
 
Dec 10, 2005
20,480
1,799
126
North Korea's Missiles in 'In Upright Position'. I've never seen such transparency of a military, giving you minute details of every step they're taking.
(2nd Picture) Those don't look like good shoes to be wearing for patrols or combat.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,083
490
126
April 11, 2013

North Korea warns US and South they are 'unaware of what miserable fate awaits them'. I gotta hand it to them for still being able to come up with new unique threats.

North Korea's Missiles in 'In Upright Position'. I've never seen such transparency of a military, giving you minute details of every step they're taking.

Chinese comic shows an impish Kim Jong-un, standing on a pedestal and urinating on the United States, Japan and South Korea. Off to one side, China leans on its cane and says, “Stupid child, you’re asking for death.



混小子,找死
More direct translation is, "Reckless boy, looking for death."
Heh from your 2nd link. All too fitting.

The G8 ministers are expected to issue a strongly-worded statement
ohhhhh
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,136
37
91
Heh from your 2nd link. All too fitting.



ohhhhh
What else can they do? Japan is part of the G8 and there are millions of Koreans in Japan who send money to N. Korea. However, recently, Japan has lowered the amount that is allowed to go there that does not involve permission. I think it's now like 20,000 Yen, which is roughly $200. Japan may lower it further. THey may also stop Koreans from sending products. But all this is small fry compared to what China and Russia (also part of the G8) can do. However, neither country is interested in a collapse of N. Korea so they have no interest in anything more than "strongly worded comments".

Fact is, many arm-chair generals want to see an uncontrolled collapse of N. Korea. That would be a catastrophe of epic proportions. And S. Korea could never handle the cost of absorbing a country that is 40% its size population-wise and much much poorer. The integration of East Germany into West Germany was managed and even that cost West Germany almost $2T. Who will help S. Korea when such an integration could be 3-4 times higher? I won't. So, yeah, all these countries have an incentive to do nothing more than "strongly worded comments".
 
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Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,851
0
76
What else can they do? Japan is part of the G8 and there are millions of Koreans in Japan who send money to N. Korea. However, recently, Japan has lowered the amount that is allowed to go there that does not involve permission. I think it's now like 20,000 Yen, which is roughly $200. Japan may lower it further. THey may also stop Koreans from sending products. But all this is small fry compared to what China and Russia (also part of the G8) can do. However, neither country is interested in a collapse of N. Korea so they have no interest in anything more than "strongly worded comments".

Fact is, many arm-chair generals want to see an uncontrolled collapse of N. Korea. That would be a catastrophe of epic proportions. And S. Korea could never handle the cost of absorbing a country that is 40% its size population-wise and much much poorer. The integration of East Germany into West Germany was managed and even that cost West Germany almost $2T. Who will help S. Korea when such an integration could be 3-4 times higher? I won't. So, yeah, all these countries have an incentive to do nothing more than "strongly worded comments".
Germany is doing just fine right now.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
4
0
What else can they do? Japan is part of the G8 and there are millions of Koreans in Japan who send money to N. Korea. However, recently, Japan has lowered the amount that is allowed to go there that does not involve permission. I think it's now like 20,000 Yen, which is roughly $200. Japan may lower it further. THey may also stop Koreans from sending products. But all this is small fry compared to what China and Russia (also part of the G8) can do. However, neither country is interested in a collapse of N. Korea so they have no interest in anything more than "strongly worded comments".

Fact is, many arm-chair generals want to see an uncontrolled collapse of N. Korea. That would be a catastrophe of epic proportions. And S. Korea could never handle the cost of absorbing a country that is 40% its size population-wise and much much poorer. The integration of East Germany into West Germany was managed and even that cost West Germany almost $2T. Who will help S. Korea when such an integration could be 3-4 times higher? I won't. So, yeah, all these countries have an incentive to do nothing more than "strongly worded comments".
Germany is doing just fine right now.
They rolled up their sleeves and decided that they needed to do what needed to be done;

The West knew that it would be costly, but they were willing.

While it might drive up the cost of the Samsung phones; I feel that South Korea will be willing to make the effort to integrate.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,083
490
126
What else can they do? Japan is part of the G8 and there are millions of Koreans in Japan who send money to N. Korea. However, recently, Japan has lowered the amount that is allowed to go there that does not involve permission. I think it's now like 20,000 Yen, which is roughly $200. Japan may lower it further. THey may also stop Koreans from sending products. But all this is small fry compared to what China and Russia (also part of the G8) can do. However, neither country is interested in a collapse of N. Korea so they have no interest in anything more than "strongly worded comments".

Fact is, many arm-chair generals want to see an uncontrolled collapse of N. Korea. That would be a catastrophe of epic proportions. And S. Korea could never handle the cost of absorbing a country that is 40% its size population-wise and much much poorer. The integration of East Germany into West Germany was managed and even that cost West Germany almost $2T. Who will help S. Korea when such an integration could be 3-4 times higher? I won't. So, yeah, all these countries have an incentive to do nothing more than "strongly worded comments".
I dont really care what they can or cant do. I just found it amusing this was their response. It is a common knock on politicians in international matters that when it comes to confrontation they write a strongly worded letter.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,136
37
91
They rolled up their sleeves and decided that they needed to do what needed to be done;

The West knew that it would be costly, but they were willing.

While it might drive up the cost of the Samsung phones; I feel that South Korea will be willing to make the effort to integrate.
And Germany was considered "the sick man of Europe" in the 1990s because its economy had slowed to a crawl. Then in the 2000s they implemented Agenda 2010, a reformation of their labor laws. They were lucky to do this when the world economy was expanding. However, again, all this was managed. S. Korea could never handle such an integration on its own. We would have to help and it would could even slow their economy to a crawl.

All this and we have not considered the political impact of US foreign policy. China, an ancient ally, protector, and lord of Korea would never tolerate America on her doorstep. So a united Korea would have to be free of American bases and influence. We would basically be losing Korea to China.

Has a democracy ever cozied up with a dictatorship because of powerful influences, fear of invasion, or to maintain good graces with all sides? Yes, Finland during the Cold War.

These are serious questions that would need to be addressed.

EDIT: Should these things come to pass, it'll be fascinating to see how much things have NOT changed in like 200-300 years. If someone from that time saw east Asia as I envisioned, they would think not much has changed, with the exception America replacing the the UK (amongst other things).
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
Oh, a white Japanophile. :D I heard a lot of those people.

Japan or Korea aside, it's really scary how someone can take such an extreme stance on any political issues of the world, to the point of denying facts. It shows the character's lack of sound judgement and prone to blind propaganda.
Unfortunately it's not uncommon. I've seen other people railing at the disrespect shown Russia from the Baltic states dismantling the World War II era Soviet military monuments, never acknowledging that while the Soviets did drive out the Nazis, both before and afterward they decimated the countries far in excess of what the Nazis did. The Internet helps people believe any damned fool thing they choose to believe.

What are your thoughts on the rape of nanking?

FYI Human beings are not "meat bags". Wait to go to in dehumanizing the Koreans.
Rape? There was no rape! We were invited! There was cake!
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
Yea, looks like lots of people put him on the ignore list. I'm partially convinced he's trolling. No one can be that stupid- makes KJU look like a scholar.
It's either trolling or willful ignorance, either way I have no use for that type of person. Thanks. :)
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
103,500
18,063
136
Unfortunately it's not uncommon. I've seen other people railing at the disrespect shown Russia from the Baltic states dismantling the World War II era Soviet military monuments, never acknowledging that while the Soviets did drive out the Nazis, both before and afterward they decimated the countries far in excess of what the Nazis did. The Internet helps people believe any damned fool thing they choose to believe.
My GF is Latvian, and I've spent some time over there, talking to people who served in the Latvian Legion (a unit of the SS, whose only mission was to keep Russia the fuck out of Latvia), and reading a bit about Soviet atrocities.

It's insane, really, the rhetoric coming out of Russia, to this day, trying to color the Baltic states and people as anti-Soviet, Nazi-loving fascists for every little thing they do to try and restore and preserve their own culture form the 60 years of literal rape they suffered under occupation. (apparently, not allowing Russian as an official language is considered "anti-Russian." o_O)

...yes, my opinion of "certain countries" and former empires has changed drastically over the last decade and while I try to maintain an open mind (it's the culture and the idea that pervades; not the people), this becomes difficult.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
172
106
Lil Kim better get on with it if he's going to do something.

Personally, I'm starting to get bored with it.

Fern
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
I think we should wait until we are sure then can put a nuke on a missile. maybe test one or two. and then give them whatever they want every time they feel the urge to 'test' their systems.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
My GF is Latvian, and I've spent some time over there, talking to people who served in the Latvian Legion (a unit of the SS, whose only mission was to keep Russia the fuck out of Latvia), and reading a bit about Soviet atrocities.

It's insane, really, the rhetoric coming out of Russia, to this day, trying to color the Baltic states and people as anti-Soviet, Nazi-loving fascists for every little thing they do to try and restore and preserve their own culture form the 60 years of literal rape they suffered under occupation. (apparently, not allowing Russian as an official language is considered "anti-Russian." o_O)

...yes, my opinion of "certain countries" and former empires has changed drastically over the last decade and while I try to maintain an open mind (it's the culture and the idea that pervades; not the people), this becomes difficult.
Agreed, on everything.

Something on nightly news I saw 5 min back, the US gov now thinks that NK CAN put a nuclear weapon into a missile.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/11/world/asia/koreas-tensions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Defector speaks about tensions during Kim Un's transition:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/04/11/north-korean-military-defector-recalls-tensions-in-military-before-kim-jong-un/
Interesting articles, thanks. I wouldn't be surprised, considering that they bought Pakistani nuclear technology and Pakistan can certainly deliver a nuke via missile. However, Red China's nuclear capable ICBMs suffered a catastrophic launch failure rate on 1 in 7 before Loraal fixed them, and Red China's technological level in the mid nineties has to be a decade or three ahead of North Korea today.

Regarding the defector's story, best case scenario I see here is that Kim Jung-un consolidates his power and then turns out be not a giant penis with ears, moving his people toward an economic model that doesn't starve them to provide yet more 1950s military hardware and perhaps even starts moving toward reunification.

I think we should wait until we are sure then can put a nuke on a missile. maybe test one or two. and then give them whatever they want every time they feel the urge to 'test' their systems.
I agree, but what are we to do? Can't very well start a war that will kill hundreds of thousands of people to avoid a war that will kill the same people in a different way.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
I agree, but what are we to do? Can't very well start a war that will kill hundreds of thousands of people to avoid a war that will kill the same people in a different way.
at some point we might have to take out their assets.

unless we want to play this hostage game every time he wants something.
 

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