Texas withholding birth certificates of US born babies

[dphantom]

The correct interpretation of the 14th amendment is pretty obvious.



Can you explain how this is being improperly interpreted so that the children of illegal immigrants are citizens? They are born in the US, so they are citizens. Period.



So your policy is to threaten to take their children away from them if they give birth in a hospital, and then use their decision not to give birth in a hospital as a reason to take their kids away.

That's some pretty sweet circular reasoning.

the only way they lose their children if they are here illegally. and even then, they can take their children back with them if they choose to do so. If not, the State will assume responsibility for the children abandoned by their illegal immigrant parents. the same as the State taking charge of any other child abandoned by its parents.

 

[fskimospy]

the only way they lose their children if they are here illegally. and even then, they can take their children back with them if they choose to do so. If not, the State will assume responsibility for the children abandoned by their illegal immigrant parents. the same as the State taking charge of any other child abandoned by its parents.

The mass deportation and confiscation of US citizen children,unless those citizens are repatriated outside of the country. Small government conservatives strike again!

It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives constantly complain about tyranny under Obama and are then so quick to embrace actual tyranny like the confiscation of children.

 

[dphantom]

Quote: Originally Posted by dphantom then send all home until the parents understand how to follow our laws. simple.

No. That's not what you said.

And that is what I personally wish to do. However, the 14th as interpreted does not allow for that hence my expansion of remarks. try to keep up.

 

[HumblePie]

Not defending what the politicians here are doing, but I will point out the tit for tat bit.

So Texas isn't saying these kids aren't citizens. They are just dilly-dallying on sending them the documents about it. Any different than cops in sanctuary cities dilly-dallying on their jobs to enforce the law?

Neither case is good really though.

 

[fskimospy]

And that is what I personally wish to do. However, the 14th as interpreted does not allow for that hence my expansion of remarks. try to keep up.

Can you provide for an interpretation of the 14th amendment that does not make these children citizens?

 

[dphantom]

No. That's not what you said.



Your personal interpretation of the 14th Amendment is irrelevant since you are not the deciding body on it's meaning or intent. There is no possible way the Supreme Court would subscribe to this line of thinking.

The mass deportation and confiscation of US citizen children,unless those citizens are repatriated outside of the country. Small government conservatives strike again!

It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives constantly complain about tyranny under Obama and are then so quick to embrace actual tyranny like the confiscation of children.

Not going to deport any children. Just their illegal immigrant parents. and if those illegals abandon their children here, who do you think will take care of them? the State must protect those children left behind.

there is no "confiscation" involved. The State is doing its duty in protecting its citizens, in this case, those children abandoned by illegal immigrant parents.

 

[OutHouse]

Johnnnn the villiage idiot says "When my sons were born we left the hospital with Colorado birth certificates & SS cards. "

Ummm no you didnt. Hospitals don't issue offical birth certs or ssn cards.the record you received from the hospital is a souvenir and is NOT considered a certified
legal document. Ssn cards you get from the feds by mail.

 

[dphantom]

Can you provide for an interpretation of the 14th amendment that does not make these children citizens?

"subject to the jurisdiction thereof" a case can be made that phrase would exclude illegal immigrants as they technically would not be a citizen and subject to our laws. One way to get around that is to say those illegals indeed are subject to immigration laws. that argument belies the debate history of the amendment which was specifically meant to include slaves and their children thereby ensuring their citizenship. An illegal is here illegally and the State has no jurisdiction over that person (taxes, insurance, social security, etc....) except for that illegals violation of immigration. So to say the State has jurisdiction over an illegal because they are here illegally and therefor any children born here of an illegal entrance would be an exercise in logic.

But lawyers do what they do and I am no lawyer. I am sure one can find highly qualified jurists to argue both sides quite cogently.

 

[echo4747]

Does the law state a "time frame" as to when a birth certificate must be provided?

i.e. (30 days;30 months 30 years?)

 

[fskimospy]

"subject to the jurisdiction thereof" a case can be made that phrase would exclude illegal immigrants as they technically would not be a citizen and subject to our laws. One way to get around that is to say those illegals indeed are subject to immigration laws. that argument belies the debate history of the amendment which was specifically meant to include slaves and their children thereby ensuring their citizenship. An illegal is here illegally and the State has no jurisdiction over that person (taxes, insurance, social security, etc....) except for that illegals violation of immigration. So to say the State has jurisdiction over an illegal because they are here illegally and therefor any children born here of an illegal entrance would be an exercise in logic.

But lawyers do what they do and I am no lawyer. I am sure one can find highly qualified jurists to argue both sides quite cogently.

Jurisdiction is defined as:

The geographic area over which authority extends; legal authority; the authority to hear and determine causes of action.

It's if our laws are binding over them, not if they get social security. If an illegal immigrant murders someone can we prosecute them for murder? If so, we have jurisdiction over them.

 

[JSt0rm]

if texas succeeded we would move all that production elsewhere. A couple years of pain so what. Any state whose only addition is natural resource production has as much value as most 3rd world countries in that regard. (texas can still produce hot blondes in cowboy boots though)

 

[CitizenKain]

Fuck you and your logical support for what Texas is doing. It doesn't feel right doing this to these illegals. You are racist (against other white people...I don't think Mexicans are a race really, are they?)

God forbid that someone on the left actually fucking rub two brain cells together and separate legals from illegals -- am I even allowed to say that word any more? I am fine if the country allows all of Mexico to fucking immigrate to here as long as they are DOCUMENTED AND LEGAL. Holy fuck, how hard is it to understand? Do people really think that everyone who is opposed to illegal immigrants are opposed because they hate Mexicans? They have to be internet trolls because no one can be that fucking stupid. Sure, there are certain people who definitely do oppose them because they are foreigners but for fuck's sake, make sure they are before putting a blanket statement on everyone. Isn't that stereotyping? I thought that stereotyping shouldn't be done because it is wrong. Please don't tell me liberals can be hypocrites as well.

Another rightwinger too stupid to understand.

 

[HumblePie]

"subject to the jurisdiction thereof" a case can be made that phrase would exclude illegal immigrants as they technically would not be a citizen and subject to our laws. One way to get around that is to say those illegals indeed are subject to immigration laws. that argument belies the debate history of the amendment which was specifically meant to include slaves and their children thereby ensuring their citizenship. An illegal is here illegally and the State has no jurisdiction over that person (taxes, insurance, social security, etc....) except for that illegals violation of immigration. So to say the State has jurisdiction over an illegal because they are here illegally and therefor any children born here of an illegal entrance would be an exercise in logic.

But lawyers do what they do and I am no lawyer. I am sure one can find highly qualified jurists to argue both sides quite cogently.

The way that Constitutional law can be interpreted sometimes can make your head spin. All the prevailing justices and politicians have to do is decide that the "person born" defined in the 14th amendment is relating to a person born being only defined as a person born to already nationalized or us born citizens. Not saying that is a good interpretation, but shit like that gets argued about.

 

[K1052]

"subject to the jurisdiction thereof" a case can be made that phrase would exclude illegal immigrants as they technically would not be a citizen and subject to our laws. One way to get around that is to say those illegals indeed are subject to immigration laws. that argument belies the debate history of the amendment which was specifically meant to include slaves and their children thereby ensuring their citizenship. An illegal is here illegally and the State has no jurisdiction over that person (taxes, insurance, social security, etc....) except for that illegals violation of immigration. So to say the State has jurisdiction over an illegal because they are here illegally and therefor any children born here of an illegal entrance would be an exercise in logic.

But lawyers do what they do and I am no lawyer. I am sure one can find highly qualified jurists to argue both sides quite cogently.

The last (and only time this or the last century AFAIK) the Supreme Court addressed this was Plyler v. Doe in 1982 where the majority held that "no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment 'jurisdiction' can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful."

 

[dphantom]

if texas succeeded

At what? the already seem to be a success. :biggrin:

 

[JSt0rm]

At what? the already seem to be a success. :biggrin:

lol producing hot blondes of course. and having 70oz steaks.

 

[Jhhnn]

Johnnnn the villiage idiot says "When my sons were born we left the hospital with Colorado birth certificates & SS cards. "

Ummm no you didnt. Hospitals don't issue offical birth certs or ssn cards.the record you received from the hospital is a souvenir and is NOT considered a certified
legal document. Ssn cards you get from the feds by mail.

You weren't there, so how would you know? I was a bit surprised myself, but I didn't argue.

Hospital certificates are more than souvenirs. They are, in truth, the basis for all further documentation in a person's life.

Did I mention chickenshit? Does it feel good to be that way, to get that Church Lady self righteous superiority going?

You seem to wear it as a badge of honor.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Hospital issued birth certificate do not meet federal requirements, only a state issued birth certificate are accepted. In order to prove my citizenship status I had to acquire a state issued birth certificate even though I had a hospital issued birth certificate, passport, state drivers license, and dd-214 from my military service.

 

[Jhhnn]

Texas is fairly obedient. A court order will soon demand they act in the interests of the 14th amendment. I don't see it escalating beyond that.

I hope you're right, but it's shameful that it should even need to go that far.

 

[JSt0rm]

Hospital issued birth certificate do not meet federal requirements, only a state issued birth certificate are accepted. In order to prove my citizenship status I had to acquire a state issued birth certificate even though I had a hospital issued birth certificate, passport, state drivers license, and dd-214 from my military service.

What documents did you need to provide to get the state issued one?

 

[Jhhnn]

Hospital issued birth certificate do not meet federal requirements, only a state issued birth certificate are accepted. In order to prove my citizenship status I had to acquire a state issued birth certificate even though I had a hospital issued birth certificate, passport, state drivers license, and dd-214 from my military service.

Please. When my sons were born, the nice people at Kaiser & St Joseph's hospital took care of all the details beyond filling out the forms while we were there. Everybody should have it so good.

None of it really matters because what's really happening is that Texas authorities are attempting to deny legitimacy to babies who are citizens under the Constitution. Their parentage is immaterial.

Catch 22 chickenshit state rules are just that, and an affront to honest & decent people everywhere.

 

[Indus]

I like this Texas. Very innovative. This has been a long standing problem. Illegal aliens crossing the border, using hospitals to have their kids (paid by tax payers), and then saying, "yay, my kids are American," which entitles them to more tax payer money. In the meantime, parents are using American infrastructure without paying into it (taxes). I like this new move. Makes sense.

Next point. How the hell are illegals aloud to use up the American court system? Next law, if you are not an American citizen, you do don't get to use the court system, unless you are the one being prosecuted.

Now let's go amend that constitution.

Amend it with what?

And how do you suggest fixing this thing? Or is that not a problem since they're not brown? :whiste:

It's clear the constitution is working everywhere.. Texas is the only one that has a problem with it!

If Texas were to secede it would be fantastic for the Canadian economy.

True it's what $1 USD = $1.30 CAD now so we might be getting our gas on the cheap and that whole pipeline thing might get magically approved in a hurry.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

What documents did you need to provide to get the state issued one?

I had to request it from the state and pay a procurement fee. I also pay expedited shipping fee because I needed as soon as possible to lose as little time as possible in my immigration visa request for my wife and step daughter.

http://www.vdh.state.va.us/vital_records/

Expedited service was through Vitalchek

https://www.vitalchek.com/birth-certificates/virginia

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Please. When my sons were born, the nice people at Kaiser & St Joseph's hospital took care of all the details beyond filling out the forms while we were there. Everybody should have it so good.

Unless it's a certified birth certificate it's of no good when required by the federal government. When my daughter was born in 1985 I ordered a state issued birth certificate and her SSN card. She has both a hospital and certified state birth certificate. My son on the other hand has a US Citizen Born Abroad birth certificate issued by the US Government.

 

[Bart*Simpson]

If Texas seceded and then tried to extort the rest of the US using energy they would be quickly crushed militarily.

If Texas was forced to secede why do you think they'd be alone? And what would you do if Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, and the Dakotas also seceded taking with them most of the nation's stock of nuclear weapons?

Would you be so quick to 'crush them' if you knew that meant your New York City would be nuked in response?