Texas withholding birth certificates of US born babies

[cbrunny]

If Texas were to secede it would be fantastic for the Canadian economy.

 

[thraashman]

Threads like this are a fascinating case study in just how much conservatives despise the Constitution.

 

[ctbaars]

I thought they were withholding certificates to strangers.

 

[CitizenKain]

Seems fair to me.

Yes, but you are ignorant and don't know shit, so it would sound fair to you.

 

[Jhhnn]

Prove who the parents are and then the birth certificates will be provided.

The parents apparently are unable to prove who they are. They are again breaking the law.

What is the confusion?

Otherwise, anyone could collect a birth certificate even though they are not the parent and/or legal guardian.

The chickenshit is piled deep here, unsurprising given racist right wing headsets.

When my sons were born, we left the hospital with their official state of Colorado birth certificates & SS cards. It was obvious that they were born in this country, the only Constitutional requirement for birthright citizenship. I'm confident that Texas hospitals & midwives provide some sort of documentation as well. That alone should suffice to obtain a Texas birth certificate.

As usual, the defenders of racism hide behind obfuscation as they attempt to turn citizens into non-citizens with official fol-de-rol & misdirection. Hell, that's why the 14th amendment was adopted in the first place.

I'll say one thing for Texas & her defenders- they're not just assholes, they're shameless assholes willing to go to any length to show it, including taking it out on infants.

Next up- faux Christian values & defense of the second amendment.

 

[dphantom]

Take the child into protective services and place for adoption. evict the illegal immigrant parents

 

[Jaskalas]

Texas is fairly obedient. A court order will soon demand they act in the interests of the 14th amendment. I don't see it escalating beyond that.

 

[fskimospy]

Take the child into protective services and place for adoption. evict the illegal immigrant parents

That would be a societal nightmare of massive proportions.

The horrific spectacle of the state forcibly taking thousands of children away from their loving parents aside, children placed into foster care display hugely higher levels of substance abuse, psychological disorders, criminality, etc than children raised in the homes of their biological parents. Can you explain why this is a preferable outcome?

 

[dphantom]

That would be a societal nightmare of massive proportions.

The horrific spectacle of the state forcibly taking thousands of children away from their loving parents aside, children placed into foster care display hugely higher levels of substance abuse, psychological disorders, criminality, etc than children raised in the homes of their biological parents. Can you explain why this is a preferable outcome?

then send all home until the parents understand how to follow our laws. simple.

 

[fskimospy]

then send all home until the parents understand how to follow our laws. simple.

You're advocating the deportation of masses of US citizens who have committed no crime. That is insanely, insanely illegal and unconstitutional.

So yeah, it's simple so long as you shred the Constitution. I thought conservatives liked that thing?

 

[dphantom]

You're advocating the deportation of masses of US citizens who have committed no crime. That is insanely, insanely illegal and unconstitutional.

So yeah, it's simple so long as you shred the Constitution. I thought conservatives liked that thing?

Nope. Not really. You brought up the possible problems with the children. I simply said then send them all home.

But a better solution is to take the children into protective services and deport the parents. the problem will very, very rapidly fix itself when illegal immigrants realize that they will lose their children. It will never become the problem you think it will. Parents will not risk losing their children. They will stay in whatever country they are citizens of to have their children.

And if the parents want their children back, I would make sure those children got back to their parents as quickly, safely and comfortably as possible while still holding dual citizenship if the country of their parents origin provides such. But the parents are forever barred from entering the US in any way ever again as punishment for breaking our laws.

 

[fskimospy]

Nope. Not really. You brought up the possible problems with the children. I simply said then send them all home.

And I'm telling you that's massively illegal. So no, that's not an option unless you want to shred the Constitution. Do you?

But a better solution is to take the children into protective services and deport the parents. the problem will very, very rapidly fix itself when illegal immigrants realize that they will lose their children. It will never become the problem you think it will. Parents will not risk losing their children. They will stay in whatever country they are citizens of to have their children.

This is incredibly naive. You think illegal immigrants will stop having kids if the state forcibly takes them from them whenever they are born. That would never, ever happen in a million years not just from a public relations nightmare perspective, but again in order to make this threat credible you would need to jam thousands and thousands of kids into foster homes for no reason other than to punish their parents. That's batshit.

And if the parents want their children back, I would make sure those children got back to their parents as quickly, safely and comfortably as possible while still holding dual citizenship if the country of their parents origin provides such. But the parents are forever barred from entering the US in any way ever again as punishment for breaking our laws.

Good luck with that.

 

[Humpy]

I feel bad for those kids. They have no idea how fucked they are just because they were born in the US.

 

[dphantom]

This is incredibly naive. You think illegal immigrants will stop having kids if the state forcibly takes them from them whenever they are born.

You are naïve. parents in the aggregate will not risk the loss of their child when they know for certain the State will take that child from them since the parents are here illegally. They won't stop having children; they will have children instead in their native country. And for existing illegals with children born in the US, when they see that happen, again in the aggregate they will leave with their children and return to their country of origin. it is self correcting. I would expect very few children to be abandoned by their parents. Those few who are will be taken care like any other child would as well as being given the opportunity at any time to reunite with their natural parents.

 

[fskimospy]

You are naïve. parents in the aggregate will not risk the loss of their child when they know for certain the State will take that child from them since the parents are here illegally. They won't stop having children; they will have children instead in their native country. And for existing illegals with children born in the US, when they see that happen, again in the aggregate they will leave with their children and return to their country of origin. it is self correcting. I would expect very few children to be abandoned by their parents. Those few who are will be taken care like any other child would as well as being given the opportunity at any time to reunite with their natural parents.

Or they just won't have their kids in hospitals.

I can't believe any individual actually thinks that deporting the parents of newborns will make people stop coming to the US.

 

[K1052]

You are naïve. parents in the aggregate will not risk the loss of their child when they know for certain the State will take that child from them since the parents are here illegally. They won't stop having children; they will have children instead in their native country. And for existing illegals with children born in the US, when they see that happen, again in the aggregate they will leave with their children and return to their country of origin. it is self correcting. I would expect very few children to be abandoned by their parents. Those few who are will be taken care like any other child would as well as being given the opportunity at any time to reunite with their natural parents.

Batshit crazy rational aside this would require nothing less than a constitutional amendment that alters the 14th Amendment, probably a provision that abrogates the right to due process lest the federal courts be burdened by likely millions of cases, and contains a specific exception to the clause prohibiting ex post facto laws.

 

[glenn1]

From: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-over-denied-birth-certificates-for-children/

Texas wanting to not follow the U.S. Constitution.. AGAIN..

Why don't they just secede? It's not like anyone will miss them, and less legal headaches too. Then they can do what they damn well like.

It's not unconstitutional to require proof of identity to order copies of official documents, the state has a legitimate interest in seeing that such documents are only given to those legally entitled to them. Plus Texas law allows for alternative forms of ID to be used, including foreign-issued photo IDs, Mexican voter ID card, etc.

http://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=25&pt=1&ch=181&rl=28

C) When submitting secondary forms of identification, the documents combined must confirm the identity of the applicant. At least one of the documents must contain the applicant's name, signature, or identifiable photo of the applicant.
(D) Acceptable forms secondary identification:
(i) Current student identification;
(ii) Any Primary Identification that is expired;
(iii) Signed Social Security card, or Numident;
(iv) DD Form 214 Certificate of Release;
(v) Medicaid card;
(vi) Medicare card;
(vii) Veterans Affairs card;
(viii) Medical insurance card;
(ix) Foreign Passport accompanied by a Visa issued by the United States Department of State;
(x) Foreign Passport in accordance with the United States Department of State, Visa Waiver Program;
(xi) Certified birth certificate from the Department of State (FS-240, DS-1350 or FS-545);
(xii) Private Company Employment Identification card;
(xiii) Form I-94 - accompanied by the applicant's Visa or Passport;
(xiv) Mexican voter registration card; or
(xv) Foreign Identification with identifiable photo of applicant.
(12) Supporting Identification--Other records or documents that verify the applicant's identity. The Vital Statistics Unit refers to their policy for acceptable supporting identification. The examining or supervisory personnel may determine that a supporting identification document may meet the department's requirements in establishing identity.

 

[dphantom]

Or they just won't have their kids in hospitals.

I can't believe any individual actually thinks that deporting the parents of newborns will make people stop coming to the US.

Why would we want to stop people from coming here? it is a great place to live. We just need to stop and deport the illegals who are here. not hard to grasp that. Why do you want to support illegals breaking our laws?

 

[dphantom]

Batshit crazy rational aside this would require nothing less than a constitutional amendment that alters the 14th Amendment, probably a provision that abrogates the right to due process lest the federal courts be burdened by likely millions of cases, and contains a specific exception to the clause prohibiting ex post facto laws.

as I said above, children of illegal immigrants can stay. their parents will be expelled. I do not agree with the interpretation of the 14th amendment, but it is what it is. So children born here have, for now, US citizenship. Their parents do not and are here illegally. So they go home with no opportunity ever to come back.

 

[fskimospy]

Why would we want to stop people from coming here? it is a great place to live. We just need to stop and deport the illegals who are here. not hard to grasp that. Why do you want to support illegals breaking our laws?

I don't, I don't support you trying to break our laws either though.

Trying to deport any illegal immigrant who had a baby would just lead to them having those babies outside of hospitals or in other unsafe environments. Their children are US citizens, and it's monstrous to advocate for a policy that will harm our own citizens just to go after noncitizen groups that you don't like.

 

[JockoJohnson]

It's not unconstitutional to require proof of identity to order copies of official documents, the state has a legitimate interest in seeing that such documents are only given to those legally entitled to them. Plus Texas law allows for alternative forms of ID to be used, including foreign-issued photo IDs, Mexican voter ID card, etc.

http://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=25&pt=1&ch=181&rl=28

Fuck you and your logical support for what Texas is doing. It doesn't feel right doing this to these illegals. You are racist (against other white people...I don't think Mexicans are a race really, are they?)

God forbid that someone on the left actually fucking rub two brain cells together and separate legals from illegals -- am I even allowed to say that word any more? I am fine if the country allows all of Mexico to fucking immigrate to here as long as they are DOCUMENTED AND LEGAL. Holy fuck, how hard is it to understand? Do people really think that everyone who is opposed to illegal immigrants are opposed because they hate Mexicans? They have to be internet trolls because no one can be that fucking stupid. Sure, there are certain people who definitely do oppose them because they are foreigners but for fuck's sake, make sure they are before putting a blanket statement on everyone. Isn't that stereotyping? I thought that stereotyping shouldn't be done because it is wrong. Please don't tell me liberals can be hypocrites as well.

 

[dphantom]

I don't, I don't support you trying to break our laws either though.

Trying to deport any illegal immigrant who had a baby would just lead to them having those babies outside of hospitals or in other unsafe environments. Their children are US citizens, and it's monstrous to advocate for a policy that will harm our own citizens just to go after noncitizen groups that you don't like.

I am not going to break any law. I disagree with the 14th as interpreted but will abide by it. I would absolutely deport the children if the 14th is ever properly interpreted.

be that as it may, the parents here illegally will go. Period. They are here illegally. and if the parents choose to put their children at risk, so be it. they are the responsible party, not you, not I, not the US. In fact, the State should definitely seize and protect those children if the illegal immigrant parents are putting their children into such danger.

 

[Genx87]

Take the child into protective services and place for adoption. evict the illegal immigrant parents

What you propose is very scary.

 

[fskimospy]

I am not going to break any law. I disagree with the 14th as interpreted but will abide by it. I would absolutely deport the children if the 14th is ever properly interpreted.

The correct interpretation of the 14th amendment is pretty obvious.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Can you explain how this is being improperly interpreted so that the children of illegal immigrants are citizens? They are born in the US, so they are citizens. Period.

be that as it may, the parents here illegally will go. Period. They are here illegally. and if the parents choose to put their children at risk, so be it. they are the responsible party, not you, not I, not the US. In fact, the State should definitely seize and protect those children if the illegal immigrant parents are putting their children into such danger.

So your policy is to threaten to take their children away from them if they give birth in a hospital, and then use their decision not to give birth in a hospital as a reason to take their kids away.

That's some pretty sweet circular reasoning.

 

[K1052]

as I said above, children of illegal immigrants can stay. their parents will be expelled. I do not agree with the interpretation of the 14th amendment, but it is what it is. So children born here have, for now, US citizenship. Their parents do not and are here illegally. So they go home with no opportunity ever to come back.

No. That's not what you said.

then send all home until the parents understand how to follow our laws. simple.

Your personal interpretation of the 14th Amendment is irrelevant since you are not the deciding body on it's meaning or intent. There is no possible way the Supreme Court would subscribe to this line of thinking.