Texas Ebola patient dies

[Hayabusa Rider]

It's the system. Its lousy. Tough to truly see how bad it us until you've used universal type healthcare systems in other countries.

The politicians and their sycophants will simply not allow a better system. A different one, but don't expect better.

 

[trenchfoot]

Don't know about anybody else but I am stockpiled up.

Don't forget to rotate your stock (the fun part).

 

[bshole]

Keep laughing, keep yucking it up, keep going off-topic..... meanwhile in real life:

This could be the big one.

Projections for growth are downright scary. Healthmap modelling shows 8033 cases recorded globally on October 10 could rise to 18,391 within the next four weeks.

The US Centre for Disease Control claims cases in Liberia are doubling every 15-20 days while those in Sierra Leone are doubling every 30-40 days.

The CDC also estimates Liberia and Sierra Leone could see 1.4 million cases of Ebola within three months when under-reported cases are taken into account.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...-you-need-to-see/story-fneuzlbd-1227088785863

 

[doubledeluxe]

Bshole take a deep breath. Here's a paper bag. Breathe. Breathe.

Numbers should be taken seriously but you're panicking which is irrational.

 

[WelshBloke]

...

Pics of bunker pls?

 

[Harabec]

With proper handling, ebola can't really spread. So far the problem is 1)Africa..enough said 2) improper handling of situations.
Ebola patients should never have come into the US (well, he developed symptoms later - perhaps it is simply time to quarantine everyone and everything that comes from Africa?). What the hell were you guys thinking? Contain, cure, THEN let them in.

 

[cabri]

More people insured for less money combined with lower overall costs for everyone did nothing to improve the system? Only a truly delusional individual or someone who is simply too proud to admit they were wrong would call that "no improvement whatsoever".

I don't care about Obama winning, I just care about better policy. Considering the results so far the ACA has been that by any reasonable, objective measure.

Where did you pull the information that more people are insured for less money.

Yes - more people are "insured"

Very very few people have been able to show where their insurance costs are less than the year before.

Where have medical costs themselves gone done as a result of ACA.

People and companies are being taxed more due to the ACA to cover the insurance costs that are being subsidized.

People are being force/required/blackmailed to pay higher costs for insurance and also up front costs.

Have the medical costs that they are paying for dropped?

 

[theeedude]

It is your problem if you want to discuss solutions.

The health care industry should discuss the solutions, it's their problem. We are spending way too much money on them already.

 

[fskimospy]

Where did you pull the information that more people are insured for less money.

Yes - more people are "insured"

Very very few people have been able to show where their insurance costs are less than the year before.

Where have medical costs themselves gone done as a result of ACA.

People and companies are being taxed more due to the ACA to cover the insurance costs that are being subsidized.

People are being force/required/blackmailed to pay higher costs for insurance and also up front costs.

Have the medical costs that they are paying for dropped?

You should really read the links.

 

[theeedude]

There's too much being invested in other things, like Silicon Valley. Time to cut your wages.

There needs to be a whole lot of things done just in prep work to figure out what's going on, then more "what if" modelling without some politician getting his fingers in the pie. That's the most difficult thing because too many are stuck in a mentality where the way things were are how they should be now and for all time. I expect that any good plan will initially cost a lot of money up front because there's going to be a need of transitioning and investment. You can't expect things to not collapse if proper management isn't done. Eventually things could be better, but considering who some want to be the masters I don't see anything being much different than now. Too much ignorance and lust for control over things not even understood at a most basic level. Like I said the change of hydrocodone just sucked up a whole bunch of money simply because of the regulatory requirements of C-IIs. This was a political solution of this medication being abused by some, but it isn't a medical one. Physicians can still prescribe it but the storage and paperwork don't affect them at all and so there's no disincentive to prescribe, no politician will look deep enough to get some ideas of what might be more reasonably done. As federal law exists hydrocodone could be refilled. By moving it to a C-II what will ultimately cost millions upon millions (and already has just to comply with those regs) they cannot except in special circumstances which are rare exceptions in specific settings. What could (and should) have happened was this

A Law
"No hydrocodone containing medication may be refilled. Further the supply of medication authorized may be for more than a 30 day supply per order issued."

No onerous and irrelevant burden but it would eliminate refills for the 6 months that was previously allowed. No one in DC was bright enough to even think about what might work and what it would cost. Money removed from the system for care for foolishness, and yes that's your problem if you expect things to get better.

We deliver twice the performance every two years or so at same cost in Silicon Valley. If we make a chip that's too expensive, we eat it, and work to make it right the next time. We don't whine about consumers not wanting to spend more. We don't hose Americans for twice as much as other countries pay. So health care industry has a long way to go before you can compare yourself to Silicon Valley

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If it was a CT scan or something of that type that's particularly ridiculous as your average charge for a CT scan is somewhere around $400-500 even if you have no insurance.

Here's the claims that were processed.

Service Date 09/18/2014
Service Description Cat Scan
Billed by Provider $2,045.00
Network Discount $1,344.46
Covered Amount $700.54
Paid by Plan $656.61
Your Responsibility $43.93


Service Date 10/31/2013
Service Description MRI
Billed by Provider $2,170.00
Network Discount $1,726.89
Covered Amount $443.11
Paid by Plan $354.49
Your Responsibility $88.62

 

[bshole]

Bshole take a deep breath. Here's a paper bag. Breathe. Breathe.

Numbers should be taken seriously but you're panicking which is irrational.

Damn dude, I just had an epiphany. We are on the edge of a disaster, it could still go either way. If this is the beginning of a pandemic, the economy will crater worse than 2008. I am thinking I should pull ALL of my investments from the market now BEFORE the panic selling. Whatcha think?

 

[Brovane]

The health care industry should discuss the solutions, it's their problem. We are spending way too much money on them already.

As if they are going to solve it. That is a good one.

 

[fskimospy]

With proper handling, ebola can't really spread. So far the problem is 1)Africa..enough said 2) improper handling of situations.
Ebola patients should never have come into the US (well, he developed symptoms later - perhaps it is simply time to quarantine everyone and everything that comes from Africa?). What the hell were you guys thinking? Contain, cure, THEN let them in.

http://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6964633/travel-ban-airport-screening-ebola-outbreak-virus

There is a reason why all the experts are against that idea: it is costly and ineffective. Irrational people like bshole just demand "solutions" that make things worse.

 

[fskimospy]

Here's the claims that were processed.

Service Date 09/18/2014
Service Description Cat Scan
Billed by Provider $2,045.00
Network Discount $1,344.46
Covered Amount $700.54
Paid by Plan $656.61
Your Responsibility $43.93


Service Date 10/31/2013
Service Description MRI
Billed by Provider $2,170.00
Network Discount $1,726.89
Covered Amount $443.11
Paid by Plan $354.49
Your Responsibility $88.62

Seems about right if still on the high side. Having probably close to 20 CT scans in my life I have a lot of experience in what they cost.

 

[theeedude]

As if they are going to solve it. That is a good one.

Well we shouldn't solve it with more money. The rest is their problem.

 

[fskimospy]

Well we shouldn't solve it with more money. The rest is their problem.

Pretty sure it's everyone's problem.

 

[werepossum]

Was a MRI if my back. $5000 on the dot.

Blue shield California. 3.5 million customers. Feel free to blame the provider all you (global you) want. I did.

It's the system. Its lousy. Tough to truly see how bad it us until you've used universal type healthcare systems in other countries.

Was a MRI if my back. $5000 on the dot.

Good luck trying to get an MRI on your back in those universal type healthcare systems in other countries. For instance, the greater Chattanooga area has more such imaging machines than all of Canada.

Keep laughing, keep yucking it up, keep going off-topic..... meanwhile in real life:

This could be the big one.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...-you-need-to-see/story-fneuzlbd-1227088785863

Well, yes, but that's 18,391 cases of which maybe 18,350 are in Liberia and Sierra Leone - both nations running neck and neck with Afghanistan and North Korea for the official Earth's Anus title. As far as 1.4 million cases, the vast majority of the unreported cases have zero ability to get out of the nation or region.

One thing's for certain - for Liberia and Sierra Leone, this will be more or less akin to Europe's medieval Black Plague outbreaks. Freakin' sad in the twenty-first century.

 

[Fern]

Not really, there is Government, but there is no major private campaigns. The total of private donations is in the few millions only, almost all from major foundations. There is no major private group taking any money for ebola. The reason is people in the west do not care about africans dying from ebola.

In the google link I provided above UNICEF's donation campaign is the first link?

The campaign by Save The Children is the second.

Samaritan's Purse also has a fund raising campaign. BTW: They've been sending doctors over since before anyone knew this was a big deal. It was a doctor from SP that was infected and flown back here. He survived and has been donating his blood to help.

Here's a NYT article on how to donate: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/health/how-to-help-in-efforts-to-stem-ebolas-tide.html?_r=0

So, yes non-governmental organizations are involved with campaign drives. (And I did not list private foundations like the Gates foundation which is providing hospitals etc.) IDK how much money has been raised, but I have seen groups like Samaritan's Purse on Cable News programs asking for donations etc.

Fern

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

We deliver twice the performance every two years or so at same cost in Silicon Valley. If we make a chip that's too expensive, we eat it, and work to make it right the next time. We don't whine about consumers not wanting to spend more. We don't hose Americans for twice as much as other countries pay. So health care industry has a long way to go before you can compare yourself to Silicon Valley

Sorry, that's not my problem

Seriously, there's a patchwork and hodgepodge system which can use some systemic upgrades. Take medical records for instance. We'd love a means of looking up a patients unified records to see what tests have been run etc. It would have a huge amount of resources and that itself would bring down costs and improve care. The problem is who would do it and who would be in charge. Look at the air traffic control system as an example of what something which is far less complex was done badly. Ahh well there's nothing for it I suppose.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

OH NOES!!! Ebola may have arrived in Ottawa.

Hold me.

http://www.lfpress.com/2014/10/13/patient-with-ebola-like-symptoms-admitted-to-ottawa-hospital

 

[doubledeluxe]

Good luck trying to get an MRI on your back in those universal type healthcare systems in other countries. For instance, the greater Chattanooga area has more such imaging machines than all of Canada.


Well, yes, but that's 18,391 cases of which maybe 18,350 are in Liberia and Sierra Leone - both nations running neck and neck with Afghanistan and North Korea for the official Earth's Anus title. As far as 1.4 million cases, the vast majority of the unreported cases have zero ability to get out of the nation or region.

One thing's for certain - for Liberia and Sierra Leone, this will be more or less akin to Europe's medieval Black Plague outbreaks. Freakin' sad in the twenty-first century.

This is why our healthcare system in the USA never gets better. Rather than admit we have a serious problem you attack something else that really has nothing to do with our crappy insurance system. Now I've never lived in Canada but I do know that they have, per capita, very few MRI machines. How is their healthcare? I have friends who used to at least get their medicine from Canada rather than the USA.

My experience in a foreign country with MRIs is very limited. I hurt my knee and got an xray but they refused to give me an MRI. I was fresh off the boat from the states so this pissed me off but all these years later it turns out they were right and I didn't need one. They told me they had no reason to give me one just because I asked for it.

In the USA we get every test and drug known to man despite not necessarily needing them. In foreign countries they don't blanket treat you.

Thus their costs are less.

Not saying universal type systems are perfect. They aren't. However they're way better than what we have in the USA and afford a far better standard of living.

 

[theeedude]

Sorry, that's not my problem

Seriously, there's a patchwork and hodgepodge system which can use some systemic upgrades. Take medical records for instance. We'd love a means of looking up a patients unified records to see what tests have been run etc. It would have a huge amount of resources and that itself would bring down costs and improve care. The problem is who would do it and who would be in charge. Look at the air traffic control system as an example of what something which is far less complex was done badly. Ahh well there's nothing for it I suppose.

Oh, so you aren't running all those tests because they are easy money for the facilities at hundreds of dollars a pop? It's a computer problem? Yeah, I believe you

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Oh, so you aren't running all those tests because they are easy money for the facilities at hundreds of dollars a pop? It's a computer problem? Yeah, I believe you

I take it you have no real idea how things work? Nope

There's no interconnected system. Well there's something that allows private practices and hospitals to pass information but it's limited in scope. It should be fairly obvious that a mechanism to allow a reduction in the duplication of services would be to a great thing. No such coordinated system exists. What could be done is use the snoopmasters at the NSA who collect and store huge amounts of data and minds like we find in DARPA for networking and stop bombing the crap out of irrelevant countries and get something positive done. Not even a suggestion of a peep out of DC though. Too corrupt or too stupid?

 

[Fern]

This is why our healthcare system in the USA never gets better. Rather than admit we have a serious problem you attack something else that really has nothing to do with our crappy insurance system.
-snip-

I think the #1 problem is that we don't know what the problem is.

We've had studies by doctors, like the AMA and New England Journal of Medicine identifying why our costs are so high yet no one pays it any attention. Those reasons never entered the political debate AFAIK. If you don't correctly identify the problem(s) you can't fix it/them. (Reminds me of my sig.)

We often hear of other countries' HC system, yet I've seen no real discussion of why their system is capable of providing HC for less. Hint: it isn't about whose name is listed as payer on the check (i.e., "single payer").

Now, it may be that some yelling "single payer" know the 'score', but don't want to discuss it for fear of people freaking out etc and rejecting it. A real "single payer" system comes with a bunch of substantial changes that I bet people won't accept and couldn't be implemented with out great upheaval to our HC system and economy even if they would.

Fern