Texas Ebola patient dies

[Matt1970]

Reality is alluding you. The rest of the developed world has universal healthcare and it's cheaper and effective. Our system is worse than most countries out there. 18% of GDP is simply unacceptable.

Reality huh? We spend more per capita for education K-12 than any other nation and our ranking comes in well below 20th. That's just simple teaching of kids from a textbook. I love the optimism but I know how our government works. We will be lucky if we can just break even in our healthcare for profit vs. government run system.

 

[Matt1970]

People confuse single payer with government run system

Single-payer health care is a system in which the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all health care costs.[1] Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care

 

[doubledeluxe]

We have the best postal service in n the world.

That negates our poor test scores and allows us to get back to reality and have a modern healthcare system.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The USA is ranked 38th in the world by the WHO with countries like Argentina, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, and Dominica ahead of us.

How does Congress rate right now? Sweden isn't going to make this health care system you want. You want to handle it all over to them, and considering they can barely tie their shoes I don't see that as a good recommendation. I think before anything else we could use Constitutional changes to eliminate an error, namely how political parties and entities which influence them are managed by us, not the other way around.

 

[Matt1970]

We have the best postal service in n the world.

That negates our poor test scores and allows us to get back to reality and have a modern healthcare system.

Our postal system is bankrupt. Amtrak is bankrupt. Our government couldn't turn a dime of profit if our lives depended on it. We just subsidize the hell out of our business ventures because if people had to pay the actual costs of theses services as they used them, they wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Yeah well the whole country is basically living on borrowed money.

The entire point here is that we spend too much on too little.

 

[Matt1970]

Yeah well the whole country is basically living on borrowed money.

The entire point here is that we spend too much on too little.

Ain't that the truth.... We can make arguments all day long as to whether it's better or not, but saving costs? Not hardly.

 

[doubledeluxe]

How does Congress rate right now? Sweden isn't going to make this health care system you want. You want to handle it all over to them, and considering they can barely tie their shoes I don't see that as a good recommendation. I think before anything else we could use Constitutional changes to eliminate an error, namely how political parties and entities which influence them are managed by us, not the other way around.

Typo? Or are the swedes invading?

Congress is a joke. However just like I hold the Palestinians responsible for electing Hamas I hold us responsible for congress. Stop voting for incumbents who are corrupt and aren't doing their job. Vote 3rd party.

 

[Fern]

Lol. Look at the percentage of GDP spent on health care and the outcomes. Then come back and argue against efficiency some more.

Conservatives are only against waste in government if it's spent on things they don't like. They are totally fine with ideologically compatible waste. Makes you wonder which part of the equation they are actually against, eh?

Please. You're trying to switch subjects and now claim this is about "efficiency". We started from the position that 'single payer" means more than whose name is on the payment. You're trying to side-step that and claim you're promoting "efficiency".

The "single payer" regime will require many elements you seem to want to avoid.

In any case, I have made numerous posts about increasing efficiency, along with links from the AMA and NE Journal of medicine whose research identified the suggestions for efficiency and cost cutting. So any claim I'm arguing against efficiency is straight-up bogus and is the opposite of reality.

BTW: If you want to argue in favor of govt price fixing go for it, but please let's not use a euphemism like "efficiency".

Fern

 

[Fern]

People confuse single payer with government run system

Yeah, and for good reason. When Uncle Sam has to pay for it, Uncle Sam is gonna run it.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

Please. You're trying to switch subjects and now claim this is about "efficiency". We started from the position that 'single payer" means more than whose name is on the payment. You're trying to side-step that and claim you're promoting "efficiency".

The "single payer" regime will require many elements you seem to want to avoid.

In any case, I have made numerous posts about increasing efficiency, along with links from the AMA and NE Journal of medicine whose research identified the suggestions for efficiency and cost cutting. So any claim I'm arguing against efficiency is straight-up bogus and is the opposite of reality.

BTW: If you want to argue in favor of govt price fixing go for it, but please let's not use a euphemism like "efficiency".

Fern

Nope, you're trying to escape the reality of it. Simply put, those systems are probably more efficient.

There is no need to argue in favor of government price fixing, as that's not a necessary component of a single payer system. It's a pretty transparent attempt to smear something you're ideologically opposed to when you can't argue against it on the merits.

 

[Fern]

Nope, you're trying to escape the reality of it. Simply put, those systems are probably more efficient.

There is no need to argue in favor of government price fixing, as that's not a necessary component of a single payer system. It's a pretty transparent attempt to smear something you're ideologically opposed to when you can't argue against it on the merits.

Sure it is. No different than Medicare/Medicaid.

Fern

 

[Victorian Gray]

People confuse single payer with government run system

Sometimes from simple ignorance but often it's because they are deliberately being fed the wrong information. The misrepresentations of the Canadian system in the US are often deliberate.

Ah well, our system has treated me well throughout my lifetime and I'm thankful we have it. The US is going to have to figure out it's own way.

 

[xaeniac]

ebola is racist

 

[Matt1970]

Sometimes from simple ignorance but often it's because they are deliberately being fed the wrong information. The misrepresentations of the Canadian system in the US are often deliberate.

Ah well, our system has treated me well throughout my lifetime and I'm thankful we have it. The US is going to have to figure out it's own way.

Or maybe they looked up the actual definition.

Single-payer health care is a system in which the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all health care costs.[1] Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care

 

[Victorian Gray]

Single-payer health care is a system in which the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all health care costs.[1] Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care

It kinda boggles the mind. Did you not understand what the words that you quoted meant? Did you really not read past what you quoted?

The following 2 sentences: "The term "single-payer" thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care financed by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work. The actual funding of a "single payer" system comes from all or a portion of the covered population. Although the fund holder is usually the state, some forms of single-payer use a mixed public-private system."

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It kinda boggles the mind. Did you not understand what the words that you quoted meant? Did you really not read past what you quoted?

The following 2 sentences: "The term "single-payer" thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care financed by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work. The actual funding of a "single payer" system comes from all or a portion of the covered population. Although the fund holder is usually the state, some forms of single-payer use a mixed public-private system."

The problem again isn't that single payer exists, but who will run it and even then it isn't a matter of pay, but reform and restoration. It's as if the roads all have huge potholes in them and people are arguing about who's going to collect the fares, union or non union.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Typo? Or are the swedes invading?

Congress is a joke. However just like I hold the Palestinians responsible for electing Hamas I hold us responsible for congress. Stop voting for incumbents who are corrupt and aren't doing their job. Vote 3rd party.

Heh, pronoun problems. I wish we had the competency in leadership the Swedes do, at least in this matter.

"They" were Congress and Congress is run by parties who do not share power with people who know more than they. Congress needs to ultimately approve anything enacted on a federal level but they don't need to do it themselves. They aren't capable of making the apolitical and informed decisions. That's why a long time ago I suggested that if the Dems really wanted more than insurance reworking that they would make an effort to assemble experts from all aspects of health care including legal experts on regulation as well as public advocates to hash this all out, come up with options along with the advantages and disadvantages, and plans for implementation and refinement. An ongoing process led by the best minds in their fields. Then Congress can pass or not, but if they decide to ruin it a very public record of who did what can be had. Then I suggest tar and feathers.

 

[Matt1970]

It kinda boggles the mind. Did you not understand what the words that you quoted meant? Did you really not read past what you quoted?

The following 2 sentences: "The term "single-payer" thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care financed by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work. The actual funding of a "single payer" system comes from all or a portion of the covered population. Although the fund holder is usually the state, some forms of single-payer use a mixed public-private system."

Did you read past the first part or did you just stop at Canada? "own and employ healthcare resources and personnel" When the government owns and employs the healthcare resources and personnel, how you can somehow think that isn't a government system is beyond comprehension.

Before you backpedal and move the goalposts, squarecut1 said:

People confuse single payer with government run system

To which you said:

Sometimes from simple ignorance but often it's because they are deliberately being fed the wrong information.

Take your dispute up with Wikipedia of you wish, but single payer can very much be a government run system. Let me put this another way. If I own the building you work in, own the tools you use to do your job and pay you your salary, I run your system.

 

[dmcowen674]

5 people evacuated from Boston plane with fever and vomiting

The sky is falling

 

[BoberFett]

I'm still waiting for an explanation of how we can get a trillion from our healthcare spending without losing millions of jobs.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Salaries are out of wack. Adjust them. Stop blanket procedures. Probably would need reforms to both our judicial and education systems since the frivolous lawsuits need to go and paying hundreds of thousands for an education is a bit absurd.

 

[fskimospy]

Sure it is. No different than Medicare/Medicaid.

Fern

Not sure if you know what price fixing is then.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm still waiting for an explanation of how we can get a trillion from our healthcare spending without losing millions of jobs.

Money is fungible.

Case closed!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

5 people evacuated from Boston plane with fever and vomiting

The sky is falling

The sky is not falling