Test yourself: What is your tone perception?

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k
Well depending on the scoring system I either do really good or really bad. But at least half the tones I could almost go both ways on. If I could hear the tones in reverse order I bet I would do much better on the iffy ones. Actually, the test would probably be more accurate if it were 24 tone pairs, half simply the reverse of the rest.

I stand by the statement that this is not "right" or "wrong"

I don't understand mobobuff's scoring system

 

[mobobuff]

Here are my results. They are different from the first time I took the test.

1. d
2. u
3. u
4. u
5. u
6. u
7. d
8. u
9. d
10. d
11. d
12. d

These are the correct answers as per the score sheet..

1. d
2. d
3. u
4. u
5. u
6. u
7. d
8. d
9. u
10. d
11. d
12. u

You can see the test had 6 rising tones and 6 falling tones. You see my results had 6 rising tones and 6 falling tones, although they do not necessarily match up with the correct answers. My score would then be 6-6/12, which is 0. Even though I evidently heard some of the notes wrong, I still have a 0, or a mixed perception. This is the part where I second guess my scoring method, or the integrity of the test itself. If I had heard a falling note everytime there was a rising note, and vice versa, I'd still get 6-6. So I'd still have a mixed perception even though I heard everything completely wrong.

I guess this test is just to show how YOU perceive or WANT to perceive the pitch of a sound as it follows another sound. So really there is no point in displaying the correct answers.

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Here are my results. They are different from the first time I took the test.

1. d
2. u
3. u
4. u
5. u
6. u
7. d
8. u
9. d
10. d
11. d
12. d

These are the correct answers as per the score sheet..

1. d
2. d
3. u
4. u
5. u
6. u
7. d
8. d
9. u
10. d
11. d
12. u

You can see the test had 6 rising tones and 6 falling tones. You see my results had 6 rising tones and 6 falling tones, although they do not necessarily match up with the correct answers. My score would then be 6-6/12, which is 0. Even though I evidently heard some of the notes wrong, I still have a 0, or a mixed perception. This is the part where I second guess my scoring method, or the integrity of the test itself. If I had heard a falling note everytime there was a rising note, and vice versa, I'd still get 6-6. So I'd still have a mixed perception even though I heard everything completely wrong.

I guess this test is just to show how YOU perceive or WANT to perceive the pitch of a sound as it follows another sound. So really there is no point in displaying the correct answers.

The test doesn't provide right or wrong answers. There are two columns for each set of tones, but the U and B are ordered depending on your listening tendency. If your hearing leans towards harmonics, you will likely answer U. Conversely, if you tend towards fundamentals, you'll probably answer B. Again, these are not right or wrong answers. It all depends on what you're listening for.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Here are my results. They are different from the first time I took the test.

1. d
2. u
3. u
4. u
5. u
6. u
7. d
8. u
9. d
10. d
11. d
12. d

These are the correct answers as per the score sheet..

1. d
2. d
3. u
4. u
5. u
6. u
7. d
8. d
9. u
10. d
11. d
12. u

You can see the test had 6 rising tones and 6 falling tones. You see my results had 6 rising tones and 6 falling tones, although they do not necessarily match up with the correct answers. My score would then be 6-6/12, which is 0. Even though I evidently heard some of the notes wrong, I still have a 0, or a mixed perception. This is the part where I second guess my scoring method, or the integrity of the test itself. If I had heard a falling note everytime there was a rising note, and vice versa, I'd still get 6-6. So I'd still have a mixed perception even though I heard everything completely wrong.

I guess this test is just to show how YOU perceive or WANT to perceive the pitch of a sound as it follows another sound. So really there is no point in displaying the correct answers.

Based on your answers I would give you a

1. falling = B
2. rising = U
3. rising = B
4. rising = B
5. rising = B
6. rising = B
7. falling = B
8. rising = U
9. falling = U
10. falling = B
11. falling = B
12. falling = U

(4 - 8) / 12 = -4/12 = -0.33

If we were just supposed to add up the number of times it rose or fell, why would they bother with that table at all?

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: mobobuff
The test is telling you if you have a predisposition to hear higher tones or lower tones. If you heard more significance in lower tones, your results will be < 0. If you thought most tones were higher, your results will be > 0. If you had no tendencies one way or the other, your score will be 0. This IS a right-or-wrong test, though, because there are definite answers. Basically a 0 on this test is a 100%. The farther you are away from 0 the lower your grade.

0 = A
-/+ .2 = B
-/+ .4 = C
-/+ .6 = D
-/+ .8 = F
-/+ 1 = Special Ed

I scored a -1. According to the AV123 thread, the terms "upper tone" and "lower tone" are essentially translational errors. The terms we should be using are "harmonic" and "fundamental." The test then is trying to determine if, when listening, we focus more on the harmonics or the fundamental of a given tone. Those who score lower are those who pay more attention to the fundamental, those who score higher focus on the harmonics. It has nothing to do with your preference for lower or higher tones. Nor is it a 100% right or wrong test. Someone who listens more strongly to harmonics can easily perceive a different progression of tones than someone who hears fundamentals.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't see how the simplicity of the test could distinguish that. When hearing the notes, I tried to figure them out by concentrating on the vibrations, or the frequency of each note. I guess you would call that harmonic? But what would distinguish a harmonic from a fundamental? Would fundamental just mean you don't hear the vibrations, you just hear what you think sounds nice?

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: mobobuff
The test is telling you if you have a predisposition to hear higher tones or lower tones. If you heard more significance in lower tones, your results will be < 0. If you thought most tones were higher, your results will be > 0. If you had no tendencies one way or the other, your score will be 0. This IS a right-or-wrong test, though, because there are definite answers. Basically a 0 on this test is a 100%. The farther you are away from 0 the lower your grade.

0 = A
-/+ .2 = B
-/+ .4 = C
-/+ .6 = D
-/+ .8 = F
-/+ 1 = Special Ed

I scored a -1. According to the AV123 thread, the terms "upper tone" and "lower tone" are essentially translational errors. The terms we should be using are "harmonic" and "fundamental." The test then is trying to determine if, when listening, we focus more on the harmonics or the fundamental of a given tone. Those who score lower are those who pay more attention to the fundamental, those who score higher focus on the harmonics. It has nothing to do with your preference for lower or higher tones. Nor is it a 100% right or wrong test. Someone who listens more strongly to harmonics can easily perceive a different progression of tones than someone who hears fundamentals.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't see how the simplicity of the test could distinguish that. When hearing the notes, I tried to figure them out by concentrating on the vibrations, or the frequency of each note. I guess you would call that harmonic? But what would distinguish a harmonic from a fundamental? Would fundamental just mean you don't hear the vibrations, you just hear what you think sounds nice?

Any given tone, other than a pure wave, is composed of multiple frequencies. The lowest of these is the fundamental, the others are harmonics. Some people will focus entirely on the fundamental, while others will hear harmonics more prominently. In this test, the tones have fundamentals and harmonics that move in opposite directions - when the fundamental falls, the harmonics rise, and vice versa. It is entirely possible to perceive each set both ways, but you will likely hear one possibility much more strongly.

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Here are my results. They are different from the first time I took the test.

1. d
2. u
3. u
4. u
5. u
6. u
7. d
8. u
9. d
10. d
11. d
12. d

These are the correct answers as per the score sheet..

1. d
2. d
3. u
4. u
5. u
6. u
7. d
8. d
9. u
10. d
11. d
12. u

You can see the test had 6 rising tones and 6 falling tones. You see my results had 6 rising tones and 6 falling tones, although they do not necessarily match up with the correct answers. My score would then be 6-6/12, which is 0. Even though I evidently heard some of the notes wrong, I still have a 0, or a mixed perception. This is the part where I second guess my scoring method, or the integrity of the test itself. If I had heard a falling note everytime there was a rising note, and vice versa, I'd still get 6-6. So I'd still have a mixed perception even though I heard everything completely wrong.

I guess this test is just to show how YOU perceive or WANT to perceive the pitch of a sound as it follows another sound. So really there is no point in displaying the correct answers.

The test doesn't provide right or wrong answers. There are two columns for each set of tones, but the U and B are ordered depending on your listening tendency. If your hearing leans towards harmonics, you will likely answer U. Conversely, if you tend towards fundamentals, you'll probably answer B. Again, these are not right or wrong answers. It all depends on what you're listening for.

Okay, that does make more sense. But there still must be a correct and a wrong answer. You're simply saying that correct is harmonic and incorrect is fundamental.

The notes in the sound file are all of a unique frequency. If a high frequency follows a low frequency, it's going up. There's no way around that. Though there are more attributes to a sound than just frequency... maybe that's what I'm failing to grasp...

I give up. You're right Although I think the test could have been conducted better.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

sobriquet, do you think this would help with the confusion a bit?

I think their choice of "Upper" and "Bottom" when the test is determining which sounds higher/lower is terrible. Does this make more sense?

https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score2.doc

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: mobobuff
The test is telling you if you have a predisposition to hear higher tones or lower tones. If you heard more significance in lower tones, your results will be < 0. If you thought most tones were higher, your results will be > 0. If you had no tendencies one way or the other, your score will be 0. This IS a right-or-wrong test, though, because there are definite answers. Basically a 0 on this test is a 100%. The farther you are away from 0 the lower your grade.

0 = A
-/+ .2 = B
-/+ .4 = C
-/+ .6 = D
-/+ .8 = F
-/+ 1 = Special Ed

I scored a -1. According to the AV123 thread, the terms "upper tone" and "lower tone" are essentially translational errors. The terms we should be using are "harmonic" and "fundamental." The test then is trying to determine if, when listening, we focus more on the harmonics or the fundamental of a given tone. Those who score lower are those who pay more attention to the fundamental, those who score higher focus on the harmonics. It has nothing to do with your preference for lower or higher tones. Nor is it a 100% right or wrong test. Someone who listens more strongly to harmonics can easily perceive a different progression of tones than someone who hears fundamentals.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't see how the simplicity of the test could distinguish that. When hearing the notes, I tried to figure them out by concentrating on the vibrations, or the frequency of each note. I guess you would call that harmonic? But what would distinguish a harmonic from a fundamental? Would fundamental just mean you don't hear the vibrations, you just hear what you think sounds nice?

Any given tone, other than a pure wave, is composed of multiple frequencies. The lowest of these is the fundamental, the others are harmonics. Some people will focus entirely on the fundamental, while others will hear harmonics more prominently. In this test, the tones have fundamentals and harmonics that move in opposite directions - when the fundamental falls, the harmonics rise, and vice versa. It is entirely possible to perceive each set both ways, but you will likely hear one possibility much more strongly.

Ooooooooooh now it makes sense. I concede to your superior acoustic knowledge.

An interesting test. Thank you DaJello.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I think this thread was more interesting than the test :laugh:

You had me really questioning my thinking there for a while

I'll try to write up better directions and get the poll back up.

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Here are my results. They are different from the first time I took the test.

1. d
2. u
3. u
4. u
5. u
6. u
7. d
8. u
9. d
10. d
11. d
12. d

These are the correct answers as per the score sheet..

1. d
2. d
3. u
4. u
5. u
6. u
7. d
8. d
9. u
10. d
11. d
12. u

You can see the test had 6 rising tones and 6 falling tones. You see my results had 6 rising tones and 6 falling tones, although they do not necessarily match up with the correct answers. My score would then be 6-6/12, which is 0. Even though I evidently heard some of the notes wrong, I still have a 0, or a mixed perception. This is the part where I second guess my scoring method, or the integrity of the test itself. If I had heard a falling note everytime there was a rising note, and vice versa, I'd still get 6-6. So I'd still have a mixed perception even though I heard everything completely wrong.

I guess this test is just to show how YOU perceive or WANT to perceive the pitch of a sound as it follows another sound. So really there is no point in displaying the correct answers.

The test doesn't provide right or wrong answers. There are two columns for each set of tones, but the U and B are ordered depending on your listening tendency. If your hearing leans towards harmonics, you will likely answer U. Conversely, if you tend towards fundamentals, you'll probably answer B. Again, these are not right or wrong answers. It all depends on what you're listening for.

Okay, that does make more sense. But there still must be a correct and a wrong answer. You're simply saying that correct is harmonic and incorrect is fundamental.

The notes in the sound file are all of a unique frequency. If a high frequency follows a low frequency, it's going up. There's no way around that. Though there are more attributes to a sound than just frequency... maybe that's what I'm failing to grasp...

I give up. You're right Although I think the test could have been conducted better.

Well I am right , but I'll try to explain a bit more.

There isn't a right or wrong answer. There is only a perceptual tendency that the test tries to determine. Let's take an example. In a pair of tones, the fundamental falls while the harmonics rise. Those who tend toward perceiving the fundamental will hear the pair as falling. Conversely, those who lean towards the harmonics will understand the pair as rising. Neither is inherently correct.

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
sobriquet, do you think this would help with the confusion a bit?

I think their choice of "Upper" and "Bottom" when the test is determining which sounds higher/lower is terrible. Does this make more sense?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score2.doc">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score2.doc</a>

Yes, the terms fundamental and harmonic are infinitely more intuitive than bottom and upper. Someone mentioned that the test was directly translated from the German, which could of course introduce massive confusion.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
sobriquet, do you think this would help with the confusion a bit?

I think their choice of "Upper" and "Bottom" when the test is determining which sounds higher/lower is terrible. Does this make more sense?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score2.doc"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score2.doc">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaug....../Random/Determine%20Score2.doc</a></a>

Yes, the terms fundamental and harmonic are infinitely more intuitive than bottom and upper. Someone mentioned that the test was directly translated from the German, which could of course introduce massive confusion.

How about this bad boy?

https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score3.doc

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Well I am right , but I'll try to explain a bit more.

There isn't a right or wrong answer. There is only a perceptual tendency that the test tries to determine. Let's take an example. In a pair of tones, the fundamental falls while the harmonics rise. Those who tend toward perceiving the fundamental will hear the pair as falling. Conversely, those who lean towards the harmonics will understand the pair as rising. Neither is inherently correct.

Yeah, now that I listen to them again, I can hear what you're describing. I tried imagining piano keys when listening to it, or those hearing tests you get when you're a kid (THOSE were one frequency), that was probably where I failed in my understanding.

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
sobriquet, do you think this would help with the confusion a bit?

I think their choice of "Upper" and "Bottom" when the test is determining which sounds higher/lower is terrible. Does this make more sense?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score2.doc"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score2.doc"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score2.doc">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/sp............dom/Determine%20Score2.doc</a></a></a>

Yes, the terms fundamental and harmonic are infinitely more intuitive than bottom and upper. Someone mentioned that the test was directly translated from the German, which could of course introduce massive confusion.

How about this bad boy?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score3.doc">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Determine%20Score3.doc</a>

Beautiful!

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: sobriquet

Well I am right , but I'll try to explain a bit more.

There isn't a right or wrong answer. There is only a perceptual tendency that the test tries to determine. Let's take an example. In a pair of tones, the fundamental falls while the harmonics rise. Those who tend toward perceiving the fundamental will hear the pair as falling. Conversely, those who lean towards the harmonics will understand the pair as rising. Neither is inherently correct.

Yeah, now that I listen to them again, I can hear what you're describing. I tried imagining piano keys when listening to it, or those hearing tests you get when you're a kid (THOSE were one frequency), that was probably where I failed in my understanding.

Yeah, on a piano or any other musical instrument the fundamental and harmonics will rise and fall together (though the balance between them will change to varying degrees over the range of the instrument, leading to different tone colors). And yes, hearing tests are just single sine waves.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I think I've reduced the last major issues that made this so irritating

Poll is back up

 

[mobobuff]

Yay! Now let me do this right for the first time.

F
H
F
F
F
F
F
H
H
F
F
H

8F 4H

-4/12 = -.333...

Yaaaaaaay!

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Yay! Now let me do this right for the first time.

F
H
F
F
F
F
F
H
H
F
F
H

8F 4H

-4/12 = -.333...

Yaaaaaaay!

:thumbsup: it only took two hours

I have a feeling if I had decided to post this during the day I would have written better instructions from the start rather than trying to have that original mess stand on its own :laugh:

I also just noticed I had originally left the negative sign out of my calculation for you

 

[slackwarelinux]

-.67, woohoo!

Do I win anything?

 

[dighn]

awww I fvcked up my vote
-1 from option 0/12, +1 to option -12/12

 

[KLin]

H
H
F
F
H
F
F
F
F
F
F
F

9F, 3H, -.5

 

[Spacehead]

10H-2F/12= .666

 

[Compudork]

Funny thing is for each tone played (as they each play twice) I would hear one trend on the first loop, and often the opposite on the second loop. So on those that differed I wrote both answers (my first loop choice, then second) and scored accordingly, I got a -1 (all fund.) for the first loop of each tone and a +.75 (9 out of 12 harm.) for the second loop.

 

[Gautama2]

I had -.166

Nice thread yoyo