CaptnKirk
Lifer
- Jul 25, 2002
- 10,053
- 0
- 71
The muscles in her face have atrophied through lack of command/response to an open mouthed 'Death Grin'
which is common to people in theis condition - for all intent and purposes the facial muscles are dead.
The 'Blink' is a subconsiopus stimilus/response to either a sudden bright light being shined into her eyes,
or the dryness that comes with overexposure to air - a defense mechanism to lubricate the eyeball and keep it from completely drying out.
She can't even swallow, hence the feeding tube in her abdomen.
(That's why I made the comment about 'why do they want to drown her')
which is common to people in theis condition - for all intent and purposes the facial muscles are dead.
The 'Blink' is a subconsiopus stimilus/response to either a sudden bright light being shined into her eyes,
or the dryness that comes with overexposure to air - a defense mechanism to lubricate the eyeball and keep it from completely drying out.
She can't even swallow, hence the feeding tube in her abdomen.
(That's why I made the comment about 'why do they want to drown her')
I agree. It has become tedious trying to get through some of the thick skulls here. If any of them had gone through anything at all like this, their stories/views would undergo an immediate change.
The family and/or nurses are grasping at nothing. It is extremely sad but that is the truth. A person doesn't want to "let go" of their loved one and anything even remotely close to "evidence" of life is immediately jumped on as Proof Positive. I've been there and done that. It is difficult to break through this and finally realize that what you are looking at is not evidence of life but actually evidence of the lack of life; as defined as a viable human existance.
Sometimes the patient will open their eyes when spoken to. That is a reflex; not a concious human reaction. The eyes can even follow objects by reflex. Sometimes, in cases of what is called Critical Illness Neuropathy, what is actually happening is that the person is experiencing a total missfiring of nerves which results in muscle degradation, twitches and a state of euphoria and massive overload of stimuli in the brain. Thus the smile reflex at times. Again, these are not examples or proof of viable life in an individual; no matter how we might want to grasp on to them. It was one of the hardest things I've had to do in my life but it has to be dealt with by each individual. Some take longer than others. Perhaps that is the reason for the parents fight in this vs. the husbands wanting to let Terri go.
As for the comment about her "needing to be fed", that is an opinion based on your definition of life and how you would perhaps want to spend it. The husband says she did not want to be left in this condition; it was not a definition of life to her. Thus, she does not "need" to be fed. She needs to be allowed to die with dignity.
And before you go back into a rant about starving and dehydrating to death being such a cruel way to go, read back up on a previous post of mine. It just doesn't happen like that in this case. It would be horrible for you and I but Terri will not even know it is happening.
CaptnKirk is right. This is a waste of time. I can only hope a few reasonable individuals will take a more careful look at this before they too have to face the same thing. I don't wish that on anyone but if you can't come to grips with it now you are almost doomed to face it later. Very Sad! Do yourself and family a favor and fill out an Advanced Health Care Directive/Living Will, etc. And be VERY specific when you do.
Shuxclams
Diamond Member
- Oct 10, 1999
- 9,286
- 15
- 81
I can solve this all ~
Its none of the Goverments Business.
Funny that the Radical Fundimentalists in our goverment claim that there is an agenda on the Left to "Socially Engeineer" the country when it is in fact the Radical Fundimentalists who stick their nose in everyones business to make sure they are living (or dying) in the name of christ.
Its really sickening and scary.................
SHUX
Its none of the Goverments Business.
Funny that the Radical Fundimentalists in our goverment claim that there is an agenda on the Left to "Socially Engeineer" the country when it is in fact the Radical Fundimentalists who stick their nose in everyones business to make sure they are living (or dying) in the name of christ.
Its really sickening and scary.................
SHUX
I've kept out of discussing this case because I dont' really have a well formed opinion.
Assuming he won't let her get an MRI/PET, I don't think her tube should be pulled. As a husband, his responsibility is to act in her best interests. The claims of others' say he isn't doing this. There seems to be a lot of discussion as to what he's done with the legal settlement that should support her.
If he has taken all appropriate courses of treatment, I don't think she should be kept on life support anymore. I certainly wouldn't want to be revived and kept as a drain on my family. I think many people supporting aren't doing so because they want to keep her from dying with dignity, but rather, they want to keep a husband they view as violating his marriage vows from killing his wife.
I just can't tell now whether her husband is a dirtbag or her parents just won't let go. I don't think we'll ever know for sure.
Assuming he won't let her get an MRI/PET, I don't think her tube should be pulled. As a husband, his responsibility is to act in her best interests. The claims of others' say he isn't doing this. There seems to be a lot of discussion as to what he's done with the legal settlement that should support her.
If he has taken all appropriate courses of treatment, I don't think she should be kept on life support anymore. I certainly wouldn't want to be revived and kept as a drain on my family. I think many people supporting aren't doing so because they want to keep her from dying with dignity, but rather, they want to keep a husband they view as violating his marriage vows from killing his wife.
I just can't tell now whether her husband is a dirtbag or her parents just won't let go. I don't think we'll ever know for sure.
She can't the videos are short put together bursts made to look like something.
Terri was gone a long time ago.
Congress has trumped the States again, no surprise.
They have taken the case away from the local Judge and it is now Federal xase. While the Feds "investigate" she will stay on a feeding tube forever.
3-19-2005 Congress Announces Deal in Schiavo Case
Congressional leaders announced a compromise that would allow the brain-damaged woman's case to be reviewed by federal courts that could restore her feeding tube.
The measure would effectively take Schiavo's fate out of Florida state courts.
DeLay said that would likely mean restoration of the feeding tube "for as long as this appeal endures."
They have taken the case away from the local Judge and it is now Federal xase. While the Feds "investigate" she will stay on a feeding tube forever.
3-19-2005 Congress Announces Deal in Schiavo Case
Congressional leaders announced a compromise that would allow the brain-damaged woman's case to be reviewed by federal courts that could restore her feeding tube.
The measure would effectively take Schiavo's fate out of Florida state courts.
DeLay said that would likely mean restoration of the feeding tube "for as long as this appeal endures."
Well dmcowen674, looks like it took an "Act of Congress" but this is one time that you and I can agree on something; this sux. And the conservatives (my party) were the instigators (with some assist from the libs). :disgust: Under other circumstances, this might have been funny!
Not quite. The medical profession is grasping at this patient & any such life support patient as just another job security meal ticket. They've forgotten the meaning of the word 'mercy' & that's what's wrong w/this picture.
Why are all you babies making such a fuss about this? How many 20 year olds have gotten their brains blown out in Iraq over the past year or two? Do you cry and get your panties in a wad about that too? I've got a fine use for Terry Schiavo: There's a big pothole in front of my house. Ash her up, and fill in the pothole with her. When I die, I'll volunteer to be pothole fill somewhere. She's brain dead. God isn't going to bring her back you froot loops. I've seen the video of her...and it makes me want to throw up that anyone wants to keep that breathing mass that used to be Terry Schiavo alive on a tube for the next 50 years or so. And for someone do it in the name of god is even more disgusting....
Looks like for the most part anyone from either side that any sensibility left sees how this case is just latest of things that shows the sad state the U.S. has fallen to and falling further everyday.
Just look around folks how the World laughs at the U.S.
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
She is in the state she is in now because of intervention on the part of her parents and politicians that have nothing more important to do then weigh in on the morality of this situation.
Her husband was willing and ready to provide her with a dignified and justified passing when all of this started...legal proceedings and government interference have prolonged her suffering.
All of the medical treatment in the world would not change the fact that she has sustained brain damage...even with the most advanced of treatment, perhaps the doctors could have transformed her from a vegetable to a more responsive vegetable...but I have seen or heard no evidence that even suggests she would be able to maintain a normal life without constant medical supervision and care.
Besides, it is her husbands decision...that is part of the contract of marriage...her parents and family have no right to interfere, let alone politicians.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Looks like for the most part anyone from either side that any sensibility left sees how this case is just latest of things that shows the sad state the U.S. has fallen to and falling further everyday.
Just look around folks how the World laughs at the U.S.
You might be straining the temporary truce with that, if you are implying this is something new. Maybe you aren't but this "sad state of affairs" has been intrinsic with the US government for over 60+ years; it's not recent by any means. If it isn't rogue judges trying to legislate from the bench, it's Congress making laws for no other reason but to suite themselves and increase their preceived status and popularity. Both are a cancer upon the government and equally as destructive.
Back on topic, I think I've said all I can say, or am willing to say, in this thread. My views are clear and come from direct experience. I wish you all well and hope you never have to experience this on a personal level.
Edit: I could give a rat's south end how the world perceives the U.S. or if they are "laughing" at us; mostly that is driven from either pure misguided or misdirected hatred or simply jealousy. You'd be hard pressed to find someone from almost any part of the world that wouldn't give anything to live here and enjoy our "empire of evils" and our abundance of idiocy.
.If the discussion about the MRI is true, then we don't know what her chances of rehabilitation. That was my point. If this is true, her husband is denying her the tests that would simply confirm if she is a vegetable, or if there is some treatment with a chance of success.
Again, I don't know what is true, but I've never seen this claim refuted, so my opinion is to err on the side of life.
The CT scan has shown her higher brain has liquified, and has been replaced by cerebrospinal fluid. There is no need for an MRI, since brain tissue cannot spontaneously re-form.
I just heard it on NPR - 19 Judges in the State of Florida have already examined this problem over and over and EVERY SINGLE ONE has concluded that Terry Schiavo isn't there and isn't coming back.
Meanwhile the Republican legislators, traitors that they are to their ideals of limited government and states rights, are doing everything they can to interfere in a matter that is none of the business of the Federal Government. And they are doing this for political gain, the scumbags (hell, on NBC news the Republicans had sent a memo around saying this was a great issue to make the Democrats stumble).
God damn... between Republican traitors and wussified Democrats, its no wonder I'm going to vote Libertarian in the next election.
Meanwhile the Republican legislators, traitors that they are to their ideals of limited government and states rights, are doing everything they can to interfere in a matter that is none of the business of the Federal Government. And they are doing this for political gain, the scumbags (hell, on NBC news the Republicans had sent a memo around saying this was a great issue to make the Democrats stumble).
God damn... between Republican traitors and wussified Democrats, its no wonder I'm going to vote Libertarian in the next election.
As much as I HATE our wonderful Republican-Controlled legislative body that is acting like the judiciary, I feel really bad for her family and think that they deserve to get this attention. Regardless of which side of the fence we stand on politically, you can't help but feel bad for them. They love their daughter and don't want to let her go. To them, her gestures, her smile, her being is enough for them to continue loving her, to continue supporting her, regardless of whether or not she is conscience of their existence.
At first this case had me siding with the husband, but in good consciousness I can no longer support his desire to have the tube removed, given the pain and misery that would result to his former family. I don't know what his true motivations are, but he has moved on and has a new life. I can't comprehend why he would go through all this trouble to prove a point.
At first this case had me siding with the husband, but in good consciousness I can no longer support his desire to have the tube removed, given the pain and misery that would result to his former family. I don't know what his true motivations are, but he has moved on and has a new life. I can't comprehend why he would go through all this trouble to prove a point.
Because he's not proving a point. He's enforcing the wishes of his wife. It's that simple.
A woman should not be tortured just so her parents and family can sleep at night and have no pain. They should let go and stop torturing Terri.
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