Terry Schiavo allowed to die

[totalcommand]

The Republican party got nailed on this issue - take a look:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/23/opinion/polls/main682674.shtml

For Terri Schiavo and other reasons, Bush approval dropped from 49 to 43. But this could be because the Schiavo questions were asked in the same poll (poll bias). We'll see...

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: totalcommand
The Republican party got nailed on this issue - take a look:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/23/opinion/polls/main682674.shtml

For Terri Schiavo and other reasons, Bush approval dropped from 49 to 43. But this could be because the Schiavo questions were asked in the same poll (poll bias). We'll see...

Between this and the steroid issue, the Republicans are screwing themselves royally right now.

Unfortunately the Democrats probably won't properly take advantage of that fact since they appear even dumber than the Republicans, on the whole.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: totalcommand
The Republican party got nailed on this issue - take a look:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/23/opinion/polls/main682674.shtml

For Terri Schiavo and other reasons, Bush approval dropped from 49 to 43. But this could be because the Schiavo questions were asked in the same poll (poll bias). We'll see...

Between this and the steroid issue, the Republicans are screwing themselves royally right now.

Unfortunately the Democrats probably won't properly take advantage of that fact since they appear even dumber than the Republicans, on the whole.

I think if the Dems are smart, they will just sit back and give them enough rope to hang themselves with. IMO, they are doing an OK job of that right now. I don't think now is the time to stand up on the table and start thumping their chests about the Republicans.

I don't even know how they can take advantage of this other than to express disdain for the way Jeb and Congress have been far too involved in this case. Let the chips fall where they may. I wonder how much of a big deal this would be to the congressmen if this were 2006? I honestly think they would have toned WAY down if this were an election year. They know that memories are short and most voters will have forgotten this come next year. Just my opinion.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: totalcommand
The Republican party got nailed on this issue - take a look:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/23/opinion/polls/main682674.shtml

For Terri Schiavo and other reasons, Bush approval dropped from 49 to 43. But this could be because the Schiavo questions were asked in the same poll (poll bias). We'll see...

Between this and the steroid issue, the Republicans are screwing themselves royally right now.

Unfortunately the Democrats probably won't properly take advantage of that fact since they appear even dumber than the Republicans, on the whole.

I think if the Dems are smart, they will just sit back and give them enough rope to hang themselves with. IMO, they are doing an OK job of that right now. I don't think now is the time to stand up on the table and start thumping their chests about the Republicans.

I don't even know how they can take advantage of this other than to express disdain for the way Jeb and Congress have been far too involved in this case. Let the chips fall where they may. I wonder how much of a big deal this would be to the congressmen if this were 2006? I honestly think they would have toned WAY down if this were an election year. They know that memories are short and most voters will have forgotten this come next year. Just my opinion.

We agree.

The Democrats should play up the Congress playing the judicial branch instead of sticking to their legislative roles and the problems inherent in that sort of cross-over. But they should do it briefly and with a level head. Other than that they should just sit back and watch the GOP self-destruct over this.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

We agree.

Did you feel that? The earth stopped for a second

Glad we could agree on something

 

[skyking]

But they should do it briefly and with a level head.

That is the problem right there. They don't spin as well as the conservatives do, IMO. They'd never pulll it off with any class.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The Democrats should play up the Congress playing the judicial branch instead of sticking to their legislative roles and the problems inherent in that sort of cross-over. But they should do it briefly and with a level head. Other than that they should just sit back and watch the GOP self-destruct over this.

I agree with your assessment. If the Dems just sit tight and let the GOP hang themselves over and over on idiotic issues like this, it'll be the smartest strategery I've seen out of the party of no ideas for some time now.

 

[Veramocor]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: totalcommand
The Republican party got nailed on this issue - take a look:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/23/opinion/polls/main682674.shtml

For Terri Schiavo and other reasons, Bush approval dropped from 49 to 43. But this could be because the Schiavo questions were asked in the same poll (poll bias). We'll see...

Between this and the steroid issue, the Republicans are screwing themselves royally right now.

Unfortunately the Democrats probably won't properly take advantage of that fact since they appear even dumber than the Republicans, on the whole.

I thought you were a republican TLC, why do you want to help the dem party now?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Veramocor

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: totalcommand
The Republican party got nailed on this issue - take a look:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/23/opinion/polls/main682674.shtml

For Terri Schiavo and other reasons, Bush approval dropped from 49 to 43. But this could be because the Schiavo questions were asked in the same poll (poll bias). We'll see...

Between this and the steroid issue, the Republicans are screwing themselves royally right now.

Unfortunately the Democrats probably won't properly take advantage of that fact since they appear even dumber than the Republicans, on the whole.

I thought you were a republican TLC, why do you want to help the dem party now?

Actually he is right, the Dems are "dumber" now.

They have not been able to put the Religious under a spell like the Republicans.

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: totalcommand
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s...0316/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_9

By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press Writer

TAMPA, Fla. - A state appeals court Wednesday refused to block the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube later this week, shifting the focus in the right-to-die dispute to the Legislature.



The 2nd District Court of Appeal in Lakeland turned down a request by Bob and Mary Schindler for a delay while they pursue further appeals, and for a new trial on their daughter's fate.

The tube is scheduled to be removed on Friday at 1 p.m.

The appeals court said the issues that the Schindlers raised were not new and had been dealt with by numerous courts.

"Not only has Mrs. Schiavo's case been given due process, but few, if any similar cases have ever been afforded this heightened level of process," Chief Judge Chris Altenbernd said.

Florida legislators, meanwhile, pressed ahead with bills to block Michael Schiavo from having his wife's feeding tube removed. The Senate and House were scheduled to consider competing bills Thursday, but negotiators said it would be difficult to reconcile them in time.

"We need to able to talk long and hard about this," said state Rep. Shelley Vana.

The Schindlers' attorney, Barbara Weller, said she was not surprised by the ruling. She would not say if it would be appealed to the Florida Supreme Court (news - web sites).

George Felos, Michael Schiavo's lawyer, did not immediately return calls.

Schiavo, 41, suffered severe brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped, and court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state. Her husband says she told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that, and say she could get better.

Late last month, Circuit Judge George Greer granted Michael Schiavo permission to remove the feeding tube. After that, it could take a week or two for Terri Schiavo to die.

Finally, this poor woman will be allowed to pass away like she wanted to. Just a few more hurdles to go.

I can't believe her parents are so selfish and would keep her in a brain dead coma against her wishes.

:thumbsup: Finally some one sane for once..

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Topic Title: Terry Schiavo allowed to die

Thread Title is wrong, she's not dead yet and probably will outlive us all.

lol, i can see the headlines now.
Bush III signs terry's bill into law, allowing terry Schiavo's vegitative head to be fitted onto donor body.

AHAHAHA! ROFL

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: totalcommand
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s...0316/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_9

By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press Writer

TAMPA, Fla. - A state appeals court Wednesday refused to block the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube later this week, shifting the focus in the right-to-die dispute to the Legislature.



The 2nd District Court of Appeal in Lakeland turned down a request by Bob and Mary Schindler for a delay while they pursue further appeals, and for a new trial on their daughter's fate.

The tube is scheduled to be removed on Friday at 1 p.m.

The appeals court said the issues that the Schindlers raised were not new and had been dealt with by numerous courts.

"Not only has Mrs. Schiavo's case been given due process, but few, if any similar cases have ever been afforded this heightened level of process," Chief Judge Chris Altenbernd said.

Florida legislators, meanwhile, pressed ahead with bills to block Michael Schiavo from having his wife's feeding tube removed. The Senate and House were scheduled to consider competing bills Thursday, but negotiators said it would be difficult to reconcile them in time.

"We need to able to talk long and hard about this," said state Rep. Shelley Vana.

The Schindlers' attorney, Barbara Weller, said she was not surprised by the ruling. She would not say if it would be appealed to the Florida Supreme Court (news - web sites).

George Felos, Michael Schiavo's lawyer, did not immediately return calls.

Schiavo, 41, suffered severe brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped, and court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state. Her husband says she told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that, and say she could get better.

Late last month, Circuit Judge George Greer granted Michael Schiavo permission to remove the feeding tube. After that, it could take a week or two for Terri Schiavo to die.

Finally, this poor woman will be allowed to pass away like she wanted to. Just a few more hurdles to go.

I can't believe her parents are so selfish and would keep her in a brain dead coma against her wishes.

MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)

FACT: The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment.

http://www.terrisfight.org/

Some one twitching on a bed and having thier mouth open does not mean they "respond" to things.

 

[Philippine Mango]

She died a long time ago and people don't realize that.. The judge saw that they were "feeding" a dead body for no apparent reason so he though since its a waste of money, they should just "pull the damn tubes" out of the carcas. Shes not even alive except for a pulse and can't respond at all. She is either trapped in he body like those people who don't get enough "laughing gas" with a fully functioning brain and is suffering or is completely dead (body and brain) and is a living body (not living person). Just donate her organs so you can recover the money wasted on this carcas.

It's really sad to see what she looks like now and what she used to look like, she was pretty before this. I can't believe these parents are so selfish to do this to their daughter.

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

We agree.

The Democrats should play up the Congress playing the judicial branch instead of sticking to their legislative roles and the problems inherent in that sort of cross-over. But they should do it briefly and with a level head. Other than that they should just sit back and watch the GOP self-destruct over this.[/quote]

LOL! The problem with that argument is that you already have liberal judges playing the legislative role and changing/making laws with their rulings. Which is worse?!?! To me, both are wrong but you sure don't hear that from the left, now do you? Hipocracy at it's finest.
Sorry (Not!) to interrupt the left feeding frenzy here but I couldn't resist. You can go back to your bashing the "vast right wing conspiracy, religeous zealot, brow beating, war mongering Republicans" now. The truth interruption is over. :laugh:

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Buz2b
LOL! The problem with that argument is that you already have liberal judges playing the legislative role and changing/making laws with their rulings. Which is worse?!?! To me, both are wrong but you sure don't hear that from the left, now do you? Hipocracy at it's finest.
Sorry (Not!) to interrupt the left feeding frenzy here but I couldn't resist. You can go back to your bashing the "vast right wing conspiracy, religeous zealot, brow beating, war mongering Republicans" now. The truth interruption is over. :laugh:

Someone didn't pay attention in 'civics' class.

Throwing out a law is not 'legislating'.

 

[cruiser1338]

C'mon guys. I find it so frightening that people are willing to fight for this woman when you dont know if she wants to live or not. Failing that, all laws pass it down to her husband. He has the choice, no one else. The law is clear and people are so willing to fight for a cause that they might not have (a.k.a. she might want to die).

People, give it up. It is her husbands descision and not anyone elses.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)

FACT: The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment.

http://www.terrisfight.org/

Never mind, I found it. Florida Statute 765.101

Also note the definition of "living will"

(11) "Living will" or "declaration" means:

(a) A witnessed document in writing, voluntarily executed by the principal in accordance with s. 765.302; or

(b) A witnessed oral statement made by the principal expressing the principal's instructions concerning life-prolonging procedures.

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

Just a quick question here, I know some people have been taken away or perhaps jailed (I haven't followed too closely since last Friday and it looked ineveitable) for trying to bring her some water.. but I have heard she does have some sort of swallowing reflex that would allow her to take water or even I guess liquid food that way.

So was the order just for tube removal, or does it include removal of all food so that she will definitely starve/thirst (dehydrate) to death?

 

[arsbanned]

umm, the fact that she must be fed with a tube indicates an inability to take food normally, one would presume. Otherwise this entire episode in American
retardedness would be moot.
Meanwhile, there are those idiots who would like President Bush to _send_in_the_Army....
Unbelievable.

About a dozen demonstrators -- many of them clergymen -- gathered in the rain in front of the White House yesterday, demanding that President Bush send the Army to collect Schiavo from the hospice so she could be fed. Failing that, Governor Bush could order the police to do so, said demonstrator Paul Schenck, executive director of the National Pro-Life Action Committee. ''When the judicial branch fails, then the executive branch is forced to act," said Schenck, who met Friday with White House staff.

Yeah, that's it, send in the jackbooted thugs to show those judges just who has the power.... :roll:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washi...3/24/final_plea_nears_for_schiavo?pg=2

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

umm, the fact that she must be fed with a tube indicates an inability to take food normally, one would presume. Otherwise this entire episode in American
retardedness would be moot.

No, it could just be that it's quite dangerous for her to eat/drink on her own because she would have been risking aspiration and illness, so they would go with a feeding tube.

So, are you familiar with the exact order, is she disallowed from being fed by hand or not?

 

[realsup]

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/disabilities_02/disabilities.php

Originally posted by: arsbanned
umm, the fact that she must be fed with a tube indicates an inability to take food normally, one would presume. Otherwise this entire episode in American
retardedness would be moot.
Meanwhile, there are those idiots who would like President Bush to _send_in_the_Army....
Unbelievable.

About a dozen demonstrators -- many of them clergymen -- gathered in the rain in front of the White House yesterday, demanding that President Bush send the Army to collect Schiavo from the hospice so she could be fed. Failing that, Governor Bush could order the police to do so, said demonstrator Paul Schenck, executive director of the National Pro-Life Action Committee. ''When the judicial branch fails, then the executive branch is forced to act," said Schenck, who met Friday with White House staff.

Yeah, that's it, send in the jackbooted thugs to show those judges just who has the power.... :roll:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washi...3/24/final_plea_nears_for_schiavo?pg=2

Jackbooted thugs? That would indicate Nazis. That wouldn't be people trying to save her.

 

[Abraxas]

Originally posted by: Yo_Ma-Ma

umm, the fact that she must be fed with a tube indicates an inability to take food normally, one would presume. Otherwise this entire episode in American
retardedness would be moot.

No, it could just be that it's quite dangerous for her to eat/drink on her own because she would have been risking aspiration and illness, so they would go with a feeding tube.

So, are you familiar with the exact order, is she disallowed from being fed by hand or not?

I believe it says all. The exact words from the court order were as follows:

"ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that absent a stay from the appellate courts, the guardian, MICHAEL SCHIAVO, shall cause the removal of nutrition and hydration from the ward, THERESA SCHIVO, at 1:00 p.m. on Friday, March 18, 2005."

It says nutrition and hydration without citing the source of either. Then again it doesn't say anything about disallowing reinserting the tube or other forms of nutrition.

Link: http://www.terrisfight.net/documents/022505order.pdf

(I realize the source put it appears to be a scan of a court document so I think it is valid.)

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: realsup
http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/disabilities_02/disabilities.php

Originally posted by: arsbanned
umm, the fact that she must be fed with a tube indicates an inability to take food normally, one would presume. Otherwise this entire episode in American
retardedness would be moot.
Meanwhile, there are those idiots who would like President Bush to _send_in_the_Army....
Unbelievable.

About a dozen demonstrators -- many of them clergymen -- gathered in the rain in front of the White House yesterday, demanding that President Bush send the Army to collect Schiavo from the hospice so she could be fed. Failing that, Governor Bush could order the police to do so, said demonstrator Paul Schenck, executive director of the National Pro-Life Action Committee. ''When the judicial branch fails, then the executive branch is forced to act," said Schenck, who met Friday with White House staff.

Yeah, that's it, send in the jackbooted thugs to show those judges just who has the power.... :roll:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washi...3/24/final_plea_nears_for_schiavo?pg=2

Jackbooted thugs? That would indicate Nazis. That wouldn't be people trying to save her.

It's not their place to "save" her. There is verifiable proof she did not want to be kept alive in her current condition (according to all the courts this thing has gone in front of, including the Supreme Court).
I don't want the executive branch telling me what I can or cannot do within my own family regarding the right to die, when the courts are on my side. Nobody should be happy about the absolute fanaticism this administration is employing on a host of issues.

 

[realsup]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: realsup
http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/disabilities_02/disabilities.php

Originally posted by: arsbanned
umm, the fact that she must be fed with a tube indicates an inability to take food normally, one would presume. Otherwise this entire episode in American
retardedness would be moot.
Meanwhile, there are those idiots who would like President Bush to _send_in_the_Army....
Unbelievable.

About a dozen demonstrators -- many of them clergymen -- gathered in the rain in front of the White House yesterday, demanding that President Bush send the Army to collect Schiavo from the hospice so she could be fed. Failing that, Governor Bush could order the police to do so, said demonstrator Paul Schenck, executive director of the National Pro-Life Action Committee. ''When the judicial branch fails, then the executive branch is forced to act," said Schenck, who met Friday with White House staff.

Yeah, that's it, send in the jackbooted thugs to show those judges just who has the power.... :roll:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washi...3/24/final_plea_nears_for_schiavo?pg=2

Jackbooted thugs? That would indicate Nazis. That wouldn't be people trying to save her.

It's not their place to "save" her. There is verifiable proof she did not want to be kept alive in her current condition (according to all the courts this thing has gone in front of, including the Supreme Court).
I don't want the executive branch telling me what I can or cannot do within my own family regarding the right to die, when the courts are on my side. Nobody should be happy about the absolute fanaticism this administration is employing on a host of issues.

The only proof is from her husband. And only after he recieved a $700,00 judgement to be used for her recovery and theropy. He got greedy tried to off his wife. Now all that money has gone to his fanatical want to kill alzhiemers patients too attorney.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: realsup
The only proof is from her husband. And only after he recieved a $700,00 judgement to be used for her recovery and theropy. He got greedy tried to off his wife. Now all that money has gone to his fanatical want to kill alzhiemers patients too attorney.