Terri Shiavo case - take a look at these Affidavits...

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umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Chadder007
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Chadder007
http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html

Please read some of these statements made by the doctors and hospice care takers of Terri...
Terri is neither Brain dead, nor in a permanent vegitative state....she is just severely brain damaged and cannot feed herself.

Get back to me when you have something conclusive...like a Doctor who has actually examined her! Half of those listed on there hadn't even examined her and the ones commenting on her state who had actually seen her reported nothing more than minor changes in her blinking her eyes.

They need to pull the plug on this poor girl.

There has been several doctors that have visited her. One of them visited for 10 hours. His name is Hammesfahr

Look a few posts up. Pwned
 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
1,355
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin


Excerpts from interview with Dr. Hammesfahr:

Link

"Terri's 1996 brain scan shows 75% normal brain tissue; not scar tissue. It is not all fluid. That report is bogus. Her cortex is not missing; not at all. Some areas are thinned, probably due to hydrocephalus, with the fluid pushing against her brain. She is functioning. That is what is important. I have seen people a lot worse than her, and they are talking. A brain scan taken two years ago showed improvement."

Don't believe evrything you hear from Shiavo's right-to-die attorney.

Who to believe, the two docs Schivo and one court appointed doc that the court agreed with, or this guy, whose quote comes from an internet interview??

Who has more credibility, state courts in Fla. or a "Highway 2 Health Internet broadcast featuring Dr. Hammesfahr on Highway2health.net."??
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
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Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Yeah, everyone that isn't a paid shill for Schiavo is a "fraud".

He hasn't been paid, unlike Schiavo's doctors.

Get your facts straight .
Why? You toss out every nonsensical and unproven slander against the husband you can find on a right-to-life site, without stopping to consider why the judges, appeals court, and Florida Supreme Court all found them baseless.

Back to the self-proclaimed "Nobel nominee":

Why couldn't he provide evidence of this "Nobel nomination" to the court, if he is willing to claim it in every other forum?

Why couldn't he provide any evidence of past success for the proposed therapies he claimed could improve her condition?

And while he might have been worked pro bono just for right-to-life principles (you're right I didn't check to see if he was paid for his testimony), he might also have been working "on spec" since he offered to try out some unproven experimental treatments on Terri.

Dave, as far as the abuse allegations, listen to interviews with Terri's friends and look at this info:

Pattern Of Domestic Abuse

Doctor Says Terri Schiavo Likely Victim of 'Some Kind of Trauma'
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Yeah, everyone that isn't a paid shill for Schiavo is a "fraud".

He hasn't been paid, unlike Schiavo's doctors.

Get your facts straight .
Why? You toss out every nonsensical and unproven slander against the husband you can find on a right-to-life site, without stopping to consider why the judges, appeals court, and Florida Supreme Court all found them baseless.

Back to the self-proclaimed "Nobel nominee":

Why couldn't he provide evidence of this "Nobel nomination" to the court, if he is willing to claim it in every other forum?

Why couldn't he provide any evidence of past success for the proposed therapies he claimed could improve her condition?

And while he might have been worked pro bono just for right-to-life principles (you're right I didn't check to see if he was paid for his testimony), he might also have been working "on spec" since he offered to try out some unproven experimental treatments on Terri.

Dave, as far as the abuse allegations, listen to interviews with Terri's friends and look at this info:

Pattern Of Domestic Abuse

The courts did not find so much as a shred of credibility with anything you are linking RIP, why am I not surprise that YOU do :roll: Perhaps lies told years after the facts don't hold much water with the courts. Thank goodness.

Back to CourTV, those hate-all-men women put up a much better fight that you RIP.

 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: Riprorin


Excerpts from interview with Dr. Hammesfahr:

Link

"Terri's 1996 brain scan shows 75% normal brain tissue; not scar tissue. It is not all fluid. That report is bogus. Her cortex is not missing; not at all. Some areas are thinned, probably due to hydrocephalus, with the fluid pushing against her brain. She is functioning. That is what is important. I have seen people a lot worse than her, and they are talking. A brain scan taken two years ago showed improvement."

Don't believe evrything you hear from Shiavo's right-to-die attorney.

Who to believe, the two docs Schivo and one court appointed doc that the court agreed with, or this guy, whose quote comes from an internet interview??

Who has more credibility, state courts in Fla. or a "Highway 2 Health Internet broadcast featuring Dr. Hammesfahr on Highway2health.net."??

Schiavo's two paid doctors are right-to-die advocates. One has publically labeled himslef "Dr. Death". The court appointed doctor spent about 30 minutes with Terri.

33 medical professionals, which includes 6 neurologists dispute their claims.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Originally posted by: Riprorin
I find it ironic that you call my quotes from transcripts of Schiavo's testimony in the malpractice trial "non-sensical and unproven slander" as you do a hatchet job on Hammesfahr with absolutely no facts.

I expect better from you, Dave.
The facts about doctor Hammesfahr are that he claims a nomination but offers no evidence of it, and claims his treatment will help but offers no evidence of that either.

As for "non-sensical and unproven slander":
Originally posted by: Riprorin
And if she hadn't been denied physical therapy by her "husband" it's quite possible that she could be feeding herself.

Why did her "husband" bring up Terri's alleged wish to die in 1998, and 8 years after the injury? Interesting that the timing correlates with hiring George Felos, a right-to-die enthusiast.

CAT scans don't have the kind of resolution to make that pronouncement. Why has her "husband" blocked MRI and PET scans from being done?
...
The most obvious possible explanation for what would otherwise be inexplicable behavior is that Michael Schiavo, George Felos, and Judge Greer don?t want to admit any information that would upset the diagnosis they already have.

Why hasn't Schaivo lost guardianship?
He's shacked up with another woman and he has two kids.
Isn't there a conflict of interest here?
I'd like to know what's really driving this guy.

Schiavo sued to provide care for Terri and the money was never used for that purpose.
I'm curious how you explain that.

In Summary, Terri has received an aggregate sum of $1,590,000.00. Nonetheless, in June of 1993, the asset balance in Terri?s account was reduced to $761, 507.50, as reported by Michael Schiavo. Schiavo's attorney, however, has sealed the accounting, which would disclose how Terri's account was depleted by approximately $828,492.50, (52%) in only 1 year and 6 months.
Who knows what happened to the money.

Why didn't he take the $1M?
It would make him look like more of a cad than he's already demonstrated himself to be, wouldn't it?
Maybe he's looking for a bigger pay - book, movie rights, etc.
Who knows.

This says it all about Michael Schiavo. The man is a bold faced liar.
Q: You believe in your wedding vows, what do you mean by that?
Michael Schiavo: I believe in the vows I took with my wife, through sickness, in health, for richer or poor. I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that.

She does interact, and she could improve if she get the therapy she needs that's been withheld buy her "husband".
Since when does matrimony give you the right to kill your spouse?

Also, there's reason to believe that he abused her and may have caused her injury.
Perhaps he doesn't want her rehabilitated for fear that she will speak out against him.

She had therapy for a couple up until the malpractice trial in 1993 and was making progress.
After Schiavo won a big settlement, he cut of treatment.
Terri hasn't had any rehabilitative therapy since 1993.

Please visit abstractappeal.com and read some facts about the case.

The site really is trying to be objective about the case and not take a "side." For example, the site covers the bone scan that Terri's parents claim is evidence of abuse:
I've heard Michael beat or strangled her nearly to death and that he wants her to die to cover up his abuse. What really happened?

I do not know this family and will not comment on whether any abuse occurred. I can, however, look to the case's history and point out some items that might be relevant to anyone considering this issue.

...
The significance of the medical malpractice lawsuit can be seen in a few ways. A jury agreed that bulimia caused Terri's collapse. The defendants were her doctors -- one might think that they, of all people, would have been able to show that Terri had been beaten or strangled if that was what had occurred. Also, to believe that Michael caused Terri's collapse by beating her is to believe that Michael initiated a lawsuit against someone else for causing her collapse, opening the whole matter to serious inquiry and greatly increasing the risk that someone would discover his role.

Finally, I am not aware that anyone -- not the paramedics, doctors, nurses, family members, friends, or anyone else -- who saw Terri in the hours, weeks, and months after her collapse ever suggested at the time that Terri had been beaten or strangled.

As I said above, I am not commenting on whether any abuse actually occurred. I don't know.

But isn't there a bone scan that shows Terri was beaten?

I honestly don't know. What I understand is that a bone scan was taken in 1991 and that the doctor who read it saw on it evidence of past trauma at various places on Terri's body. Some consider that evidence of a severe beating by her husband, others consider it evidence consistent with bulimia, a fall, and CPR by paramedics. Whether trauma really happened, or what kind, or when, are all unclear.
This is not taking either "side" it's gathering the evidence and presenting it for you to decide.

Maybe you're right, and the husband is a sleazy opportunist rather than the responsible guardian the judges, appeals court, and Florida Supreme court determined him to be. There just isn't any real evidence to support that other than him not wanting Terri's body to continue to live on 15 years after her mind died.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
If the feeding tube isn't replaced, I wonder if Terri will be denied Last Rites again?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35156">Terri Schiavo denied Last Rites-Catholic monsignor forbidden to put crumb of holy wafer in dying woman's mouth
</a>
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
7,024
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
If the feeding tube isn't replaced, I wonder if Terri will be denied Last Rites again?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35156">Terri Schiavo denied Last Rites-Catholic monsignor forbidden to put crumb of holy wafer in dying woman's mouth
</a>

id heard on the radio they had already given her last rites.

apparently, they did.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Riprorin
If the feeding tube isn't replaced, I wonder if Terri will be denied Last Rites again?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35156">Terri Schiavo denied Last Rites-Catholic monsignor forbidden to put crumb of holy wafer in dying woman's mouth
</a>

Dolt. There is a court order in place. I am so happy you advocate breaking the law when God is involved. Do you NOT see what a hypocrite you are?
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
I've heard Michael beat or strangled her nearly to death and that he wants her to die to cover up his abuse. What really happened?

...As I said above, I am not commenting on whether any abuse actually occurred. I don't know.


But isn't there a bone scan that shows Terri was beaten?

I honestly don't know...


Did the trial judge reach the right decision?

The "right" decision would be whatever decision Terri would make. I did not attend the trial, and I have not even reviewed the trial record. I do not pretend to know what the "right" decision would be.


Is Michael really just looking for money?

I have no way to know...

abstractappeal.com

I give him credit for being honest.
 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
1,355
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: Riprorin


Excerpts from interview with Dr. Hammesfahr:

Link

"Terri's 1996 brain scan shows 75% normal brain tissue; not scar tissue. It is not all fluid. That report is bogus. Her cortex is not missing; not at all. Some areas are thinned, probably due to hydrocephalus, with the fluid pushing against her brain. She is functioning. That is what is important. I have seen people a lot worse than her, and they are talking. A brain scan taken two years ago showed improvement."

Don't believe evrything you hear from Shiavo's right-to-die attorney.

Who to believe, the two docs Schivo and one court appointed doc that the court agreed with, or this guy, whose quote comes from an internet interview??

Who has more credibility, state courts in Fla. or a "Highway 2 Health Internet broadcast featuring Dr. Hammesfahr on Highway2health.net."??

Schiavo's two paid doctors are right-to-die advocates. One has publically labeled himslef "Dr. Death". The court appointed doctor spent about 30 minutes with Terri.

33 medical professionals, which includes 6 neurologists dispute their claims.

So, had the court appointed doc spent more time with her, he would have changed his opinion??
Perhaps, due to the overwhelming evidence that would lead any MD to the same conclusion, the court appointed doc didn't need any more than 30 mins with her. How long does it take to realize a person is a vegatative state?? I'm not sure, but I don't think that the doc would get any new infomation from t=30min to t=whatever.

If the parents doc's arguments had any merit, don't you think the court would recognize them??
As the court explained:
Thus, the quality of the evidence presented to the guardianship court was very high, and each side had ample opportunity to present detailed medical evidence, all of which was subjected to thorough cross-examination. It is likely that no guardianship court has ever received as much high-quality medical evidence in such a proceeding.
And guess what all the evidence points to?? She's a veggie!!!
Once again, if the parents argument had any merit to it, the court would agree with them.

Oh, and who are these docs and neurologists that dispute these claims?? Lets see a link from a reputable source (I know that's hard for you rip). And no, Bill Frist does not count.
 

dolph

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
3,981
0
0
ok, fine. you caught him. michael schiavo hates terri. he's always hated her. he wants her dead. he's an awful human being who'll get a billion dollars if she dies. terri could be president of the united states if someone would just give her 2 weeks of therapy, but that bastard won't because of the aforementioned billion.

is that what you want to hear?

she can't talk. she can't recognize people or music or things. she can't eat. her cerebral cortex is gone. algae has more brainpower than she does. terri schiavo the human being died 15 years ago. technically, she's no longer even classified as a homo sapien. her body lives on because some people are afraid of death, they think hearts need to be kept beating for as long as possible because the second we let them stop, for whatever reason, we become nazis.

both michael and terri's parents love her. her parents only know her as their child, and don't want their child to die before they do. michael knows her as an adult, and recognizes that adult's right to live or not live as she would have wanted.

there is zero - zero chance of her recovering. the part of her brain that seperates her from all other life simply does not exist anymore. we are decades away from healing her, if it's even possible. this shouldn't be a grey area. she is gone. let her go.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
for those claiming he shoulda divorced her.. is it really ethical to just toss your wife to the deluded family members when she had stated that she would have not wanted to exist in such a state? like he's just done with her or something.. i don't think so:p those family members aren't acting in her best interests, they are confusing hers with their own.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Matrimony does not give you the right to kill your spouse.
Interesting that you view it as killing, when in actuality it is a form of mercy.

She needs to eat, just like you amd me. By your logic, babies would have been "worm food" as they also need to be fed. Feeding someone is hardly "the intervention of medical science".

Obviously, the ability or inability to feed oneself is a determiner of one's right to live or die.
This discussion and her condition goes well beyond her ability or inability to feed herself, and you know it...there are numerous cases of people who have suffered injury or medical conditions that have hindered or otherwise eliminated their ability to interact with the world around them.

In Terri's case, she is not incapacitated...she is essentially dead...it really begs the question of what defines a person, and what defines life...brain function, or an awareness of self, is a pretty important aspect of being alive...yes she is alive in the sense that her body is performing basic motor functions necessary to sustain life, but that is the extent of it.

We really can't climb into her brain and understand what she sees or knows...we do know that many people make their wishes known in the event that they enter into such a state...that we do not have documented evidence of her wishes does not remove the fact that her husband is the legal and rightful person to make the decision on her behalf.

It really is none of our business, nor do we have a right in expecting the government to intervene...this is a private matter between Mr. Shiavo, his wife and the doctors caring for her...the opinions of everyone else are irrelevant.


 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: her209
Here is a CT scan of Terri Schiavo's brain for those interested. link

More information on Terri Schiavo can be found here.

Let's see the MRI and PET scans.

While functional tests like MRI and PET scans are useful for determining the structural details of the damage, the problem demonstrated by the CT scan isn't structural damage, but the absence of most of the cerebral cortex. There are no structural details to be seen on finer scans, as her cortex is largely liquefied.
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Originally posted by: Tabb
That is true, no one besides her parents have be able to re-create her responding to stimui in a way that is purely human and not just a knee-jerk re-action. When this happens, you can start feeding her.

Terri does emit random behavior and noises, as does most people with PVS. If her parents give another commands or interaction attempts over the course of the 4 1/2 hours they taped, then by coincidence, the timing of some of the random behaviors will coincide with their attempts and it will seem like a response. Her parents they selected 6 snippets from those 4 1/2 hours that gave that appearance, and that's what the affadavits were based on. However, when both the trial court and the appeals court viewed the entire tape, both independently concluded that the responses were simply random.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Terri does emit random behavior and noises, as does most people with PVS. If her parents give another commands or interaction attempts over the course of the 4 1/2 hours they taped, then by coincidence, the timing of some of the random behaviors will coincide with their attempts and it will seem like a response. Her parents they selected 6 snippets from those 4 1/2 hours that gave that appearance, and that's what the affadavits were based on. However, when both the trial court and the appeals court viewed the entire tape, both independently concluded that the responses were simply random.
It really bothers me that the media chooses to show edited snippets of these tapes, which is making many people believe she is responsive and aware of her surroundings...especially the one of her mother seemingly interacting with her...quite sad that the media is unfairly portraying the situation, with Michael Shiavo's suffering extended by a society where everyone feels the need to be involved in everyone else's personal decisions.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Terri does emit random behavior and noises, as does most people with PVS. If her parents give another commands or interaction attempts over the course of the 4 1/2 hours they taped, then by coincidence, the timing of some of the random behaviors will coincide with their attempts and it will seem like a response. Her parents they selected 6 snippets from those 4 1/2 hours that gave that appearance, and that's what the affadavits were based on. However, when both the trial court and the appeals court viewed the entire tape, both independently concluded that the responses were simply random.
It really bothers me that the media chooses to show edited snippets of these tapes, which is making many people believe she is responsive and aware of her surroundings...especially the one of her mother seemingly interacting with her...quite sad that the media is unfairly portraying the situation, with Michael Shiavo's suffering extended by a society where everyone feels the need to be involved in everyone else's personal decisions.

Aye, 'tis sad indeed.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Terri does emit random behavior and noises, as does most people with PVS. If her parents give another commands or interaction attempts over the course of the 4 1/2 hours they taped, then by coincidence, the timing of some of the random behaviors will coincide with their attempts and it will seem like a response. Her parents they selected 6 snippets from those 4 1/2 hours that gave that appearance, and that's what the affadavits were based on. However, when both the trial court and the appeals court viewed the entire tape, both independently concluded that the responses were simply random.
It really bothers me that the media chooses to show edited snippets of these tapes, which is making many people believe she is responsive and aware of her surroundings...especially the one of her mother seemingly interacting with her...quite sad that the media is unfairly portraying the situation, with Michael Shiavo's suffering extended by a society where everyone feels the need to be involved in everyone else's personal decisions.
My grandmother suffered from Alzheimer's, made worse by a number of minor strokes.

She exhibited a great deal of 'random' behaviour in the last two years of life, and it was heartbreaking to see my father and grandfather try to interpret the behaviour as communication, because they needed it to be that way.

 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Terri does emit random behavior and noises, as does most people with PVS. If her parents give another commands or interaction attempts over the course of the 4 1/2 hours they taped, then by coincidence, the timing of some of the random behaviors will coincide with their attempts and it will seem like a response. Her parents they selected 6 snippets from those 4 1/2 hours that gave that appearance, and that's what the affadavits were based on. However, when both the trial court and the appeals court viewed the entire tape, both independently concluded that the responses were simply random.
It really bothers me that the media chooses to show edited snippets of these tapes, which is making many people believe she is responsive and aware of her surroundings...especially the one of her mother seemingly interacting with her...quite sad that the media is unfairly portraying the situation, with Michael Shiavo's suffering extended by a society where everyone feels the need to be involved in everyone else's personal decisions.
My grandmother suffered from Alzheimer's, made worse by a number of minor strokes.

She exhibited a great deal of 'random' behaviour in the last two years of life, and it was heartbreaking to see my father and grandfather try to interpret the behaviour as communication, because they needed it to be that way.

My aunt did that with my grandmother as well. Was very sad to watch.