Terri Shiavo case - take a look at these Affidavits...

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Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
She looks pretty alive to me.

With no quality of life whatsoever...her husband is the only one legally authorized to make life and death decisions on her behalf...she has no chance of ever recovering...her "life" will consist of laying in a bed, unable to communicate, interact, or otherwise comprehend the world around her...in constant need of medical need...and for all intents and purposes, she has received a format c:/ on her mind...she is alive in the sense that yes she is living and breathing...that's about it.

She does interact, and she could improve if she get the therapy she needs that's been withheld buy her "husband".

Since when does matrimony give you the right to kill your spouse?
That horse is long dead, just like Terri. Stop beating on it.
 

Chadder007

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,560
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Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
She looks pretty alive to me.

With no quality of life whatsoever...her husband is the only one legally authorized to make life and death decisions on her behalf...she has no chance of ever recovering...her "life" will consist of laying in a bed, unable to communicate, interact, or otherwise comprehend the world around her...in constant need of medical need...and for all intents and purposes, she has received a format c:/ on her mind...she is alive in the sense that yes she is living and breathing...that's about it.

She does interact, and she could improve if she get the therapy she needs that's been withheld buy her "husband".

Since when does matrimony give you the right to kill your spouse?
That horse is long dead, just like Terri. Stop beating on it.

But she isn't dead....she isn't brain dead, and she isn't in a PVS. Why do you want her to die so badly?
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
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Originally posted by: Chadder007
But she isn't dead....she isn't brain dead, and she isn't in a PVS. Why do you want her to die so badly?
You never did read any objective information about the case, did you? Or the earlier posts on this point?

abstractappeal.com
---------------
"What about the Schindlers' claims that Terri is conscious and responds to stimulation?

When the Second District first reviewed the trial court's decision that Terri would chose not to live under her present circumstances, the appellate court expressed no reservations when it explained that Terri was and "will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others?" In October, 2002, as a result of Terri's parents' claims that treatment options offered promise to restore some of Terri's cognitive functioning, the Second District ordered the trial court to hold a trial on that issue. The trial court did so, and in the course of that trial the parties litigated whether Terri is in a persistent vegetative state.

The trial court heard testimony from five experts: two selected by Michael, two selected by the Schindlers, and one independent expert selected by the trial court. The two experts selected by Michael and the independent expert agreed that Terri was in a persistent vegetative state and that her actions were limited to mere reflexes. The two experts chosen by the Schindlers disagreed, but the trial court found their positions not credible. For instance, the trial court explained:

At first blush, the video of Terry Schiavo appearing to smile and look lovingly at her mother seemed to represent cognition. This was also true for how she followed the Mickey Mouse balloon held by her father. The court has carefully viewed the videotapes as requested by counsel and does find that these actions were neither consistent nor reproducible. For instance, Terry Schiavo appeared to have the same look on her face when Dr. Cranford rubbed her neck. Dr. Greer testified she had a smile during his (non-videoed) examination. Also, Mr. Schindler tried several more times to have her eyes follow the Mickey Mouse balloon but without success. Also, she clearly does not consistently respond to her mother. The court finds that based on the credible evidence, cognitive function would manifest itself in a constant response to stimuli.
The experts also disagreed about whether any treatment could improve Terri's condition. The two experts selected by the Schindlers each proposed a potential therapy method, but the trial court rejected both of them based on "the total absence of supporting case studies or medical literature."

Affirming those decisions, the Second District explained that it, too, reviewed the videotapes of Terri in their entirety as well as Terri's brain scans. The appellate court explained that it not only affirmed the decision but that, were it to review the evidence and make its own decision, the court would reach the same result reached by the trial court."
-------------

There is no person left, just a twitching shell.

If there is a soul that is tied to the body, it's being left in torment, unable to move on to its reward.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
There's no innuendo. Just look at what he said in the malpractice trial.

Why didn't he take the $1M?

It would make him look like more of a cad than he's already demonstrated himself to be, wouldn't it?

Maybe he's looking for a bigger pay - book, movie rights, etc.

Who knows.

Also, there's reason to believe that he abused her and may have caused her injury.

Perhaps he doesn't want her rehabilitated for fear that she will speak out against him.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Originally posted by: Chadder007
http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html

Please read some of these statements made by the doctors and hospice care takers of Terri...
Terri is neither Brain dead, nor in a permanent vegitative state....she is just severely brain damaged and cannot feed herself.

Get back to me when you have something conclusive...like a Doctor who has actually examined her! Half of those listed on there hadn't even examined her and the ones commenting on her state who had actually seen her reported nothing more than minor changes in her blinking her eyes.

They need to pull the plug on this poor girl.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Clearly, there's differences of opinion within the medical community.

Frankly, I don't trust the medical opinion opinion of phuysicians hired by a right-to-die attorney, especially when MRI and PET scan haven't even been done.

Renowned neurologist: Schiavo can eat with aid & is not in ?persistent vegetative state?

When will you learn linking to the baptist press doesn't help your cause!!!???

"Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999 for his work in brain injury and stroke. He is a recognized expert in treating neurological disorders, having successfully treated thousands of patients using vasodilator therapy, which increases blood flow to the brain, thus healing conditions previously thought to be untreatable."

Of course, you'll only believe doctors who are paid for by Schiavo and his right-to-die attorney.
 

Sysbuilder05

Senior member
Nov 10, 2004
409
0
0

[/quote]

She does interact, and she could improve if she get the therapy she needs that's been withheld buy her "husband".

Since when does matrimony give you the right to kill your spouse?[/quote]

Hey Rip,how about for a minute or two you stop listening to RW radio and quoting everything they say? She had therapy for about EIGHT years out of FIFTEEN,it did no good. Brain damage is brain damage,there is rarely a cure. As time passes you slowly vegatate,sorry but those are the FACTS.

Question,are you married,how long have you been married,do you have a living will? I've been married for 20 years and we have had living wills since 1990. If my wife EVER would end up like Schiavo I have the right to end her life. THOSE ARE HER WISHES,as well as mine if I should end up in that condition.

My wife and I don't need YOU,BUSH,DeLay and your RW Religious zealots lecturing US about whats right or wrong. If you knew jack SH*T about a living will you would know that your spouse DOES INDEED have the right to end your life under these medical circumstances.

Again...where is your OUTRAGE over all the people in Texas who have been MURDERED by the law that GEORGE W. BUSH signed in 1999? Oh thats right,they didn't COUNT in the Bush scheme of things because they could no longer AFFORD the right to STAY ALIVE. Bush...always looking out for CORPORATIONS like the FRIST owned HCA--that would be HOSPITAL CORPORATION OF AMERICA in case your RW sites never let you in on that fact.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
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She had therapy for a couple up until the malpractice trial in 1993 and was making progress.

After Schiavo won a big settlement, he cut of treatment.

Terri hasn't had any rehabilitative therapy since 1993.
 

Chadder007

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,560
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Chadder007
http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html

Please read some of these statements made by the doctors and hospice care takers of Terri...
Terri is neither Brain dead, nor in a permanent vegitative state....she is just severely brain damaged and cannot feed herself.

Get back to me when you have something conclusive...like a Doctor who has actually examined her! Half of those listed on there hadn't even examined her and the ones commenting on her state who had actually seen her reported nothing more than minor changes in her blinking her eyes.

They need to pull the plug on this poor girl.

There has been several doctors that have visited her. One of them visited for 10 hours. His name is Hammesfahr
 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
1,355
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Clearly, there's differences of opinion within the medical community.

Frankly, I don't trust the medical opinion opinion of phuysicians hired by a right-to-die attorney, especially when MRI and PET scan haven't even been done.

Renowned neurologist: Schiavo can eat with aid & is not in ?persistent vegetative state?

When will you learn linking to the baptist press doesn't help your cause!!!???

"Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999 for his work in brain injury and stroke. He is a recognized expert in treating neurological disorders, having successfully treated thousands of patients using vasodilator therapy, which increases blood flow to the brain, thus healing conditions previously thought to be untreatable."

Of course, you'll only believe doctors who are paid for by Schiavo and his right-to-die attorney.

wow, increasing blood flow to the spinal fluid that was her cerebal cortex sure will help, won't it rip??
rip, please explain how a woman with only a brain stem can be rehabilitated in any way.
 

Chadder007

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,560
0
0
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Clearly, there's differences of opinion within the medical community.

Frankly, I don't trust the medical opinion opinion of phuysicians hired by a right-to-die attorney, especially when MRI and PET scan haven't even been done.

Renowned neurologist: Schiavo can eat with aid & is not in ?persistent vegetative state?

When will you learn linking to the baptist press doesn't help your cause!!!???

"Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999 for his work in brain injury and stroke. He is a recognized expert in treating neurological disorders, having successfully treated thousands of patients using vasodilator therapy, which increases blood flow to the brain, thus healing conditions previously thought to be untreatable."

Of course, you'll only believe doctors who are paid for by Schiavo and his right-to-die attorney.

wow, increasing blood flow to the spinal fluid that was her cerebal cortex sure will help, won't it rip??
rip, please explain how a woman with only a brain stem can be rehabilitated in any way.

Wow....the forum is full of misinformed people tonight...
She doesn't have just a brain stem. Other doctors have read the CAT scans and said that it was read wrong by Micheals doctor. Also no MRI or other scans have been made at all.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Clearly, there's differences of opinion within the medical community.

Frankly, I don't trust the medical opinion opinion of phuysicians hired by a right-to-die attorney, especially when MRI and PET scan haven't even been done.

Renowned neurologist: Schiavo can eat with aid & is not in ?persistent vegetative state?

When will you learn linking to the baptist press doesn't help your cause!!!???

"Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999 for his work in brain injury and stroke. He is a recognized expert in treating neurological disorders, having successfully treated thousands of patients using vasodilator therapy, which increases blood flow to the brain, thus healing conditions previously thought to be untreatable."

Of course, you'll only believe doctors who are paid for by Schiavo and his right-to-die attorney.

wow, increasing blood flow to the spinal fluid that was her cerebal cortex sure will help, won't it rip??
rip, please explain how a woman with only a brain stem can be rehabilitated in any way.

Excerpts from interview with Dr. Hammesfahr:

Link

"Terri's 1996 brain scan shows 75% normal brain tissue; not scar tissue. It is not all fluid. That report is bogus. Her cortex is not missing; not at all. Some areas are thinned, probably due to hydrocephalus, with the fluid pushing against her brain. She is functioning. That is what is important. I have seen people a lot worse than her, and they are talking. A brain scan taken two years ago showed improvement."

Don't believe evrything you hear from Shiavo's right-to-die attorney.

 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Originally posted by: Riprorin
"Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999 for his work in brain injury and stroke. He is a recognized expert in treating neurological disorders, having successfully treated thousands of patients using vasodilator therapy, which increases blood flow to the brain, thus healing conditions previously thought to be untreatable."

Of course, you'll only believe doctors who are paid for by Schiavo and his right-to-die attorney.
---
http://nobelprize.org/help/faq/index.html

Has X been nominated as a candidate for the Nobel Prize, or where do I find a list of Nobel Prize nominees?

According to the Statutes of the Nobel Foundation, information about the nominations is not to be disclosed, publicly or privately, for a period of fifty years. The restriction not only concerns the nominees and nominators, but also investigations and opinions in the awarding of a prize.
---
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1358370/posts

"Dr. Hammesfahr's "Nobel Prize nominations" are clever deceptions that do not measure up to the hard reality of truth. He should not be cited as receiving such nominations, because, in fact, they do not exist. His "nominations" are from uninformed individuals, in this case a legislator, or organizations who are not eligible to nominate anyone for the Nobel Prize in Medicine, any more than I am eligible to nominate someone for the King of the World.

The actual nominations for this extraordinary recognition of intellectual endeavor, the Nobel Prize, are KEPT SECRET FOR 50 YEARS, so anyone using the term "Nobel Prize nominee" is NOT supported by the Nobel Prize Committee.

In addition Hammesfahr was asked by the Court to produce documentation of the Nobel nomination as well as documentation of cases where his treatment has shown results. He did not do so. It does raise questions concerning the validity of his claims."

---

Sounds like your expert is a fraud, and the fact that he claims "50 other neurologists" argree with him might also be fraud.

I hadn't realized in responding to your earlier post on the subject that he is one of the doctors paid by the parents to agree with them, and whose credibility was called into question because their proposed therapies had no basis in accepted medical practice.

There are "doctors" promoting worthless diet pills and excercises too, just like this doctor might want to make Shiavo's body a guinea pig for his experiments.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Yeah, everyone that isn't a paid shill for Schiavo is a "fraud".

He hasn't been paid, unlike Schiavo's doctors.

Get your facts straight.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Here is a CT scan of Terri Schiavo's brain for those interested. link

More information on Terri Schiavo can be found here.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
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Originally posted by: her209
Here is a CT scan of Terri Schiavo's brain for those interested. link

More information on Terri Schiavo can be found here.

Examing a CAT can has been described as looking at a "blurry photo".

Let's see the MRI and PET scans.

Oh, that's right Schiavo has refused them.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: her209
Here is a CT scan of Terri Schiavo's brain for those interested. link

More information on Terri Schiavo can be found here.
Examing a CAT can has been described as looking at a "blurry photo".

Let's see the MRI and PET scans.

Oh, that's right Schiavo has refused them.
I take it you are an expert at looking at them.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Yeah, everyone that isn't a paid shill for Schiavo is a "fraud".

He hasn't been paid, unlike Schiavo's doctors.

Get your facts straight .
Why? You toss out every nonsensical and unproven slander against the husband you can find on a right-to-life site, without stopping to consider why the judges, appeals court, and Florida Supreme Court all found them baseless.

Back to the self-proclaimed "Nobel nominee":

Why couldn't he provide evidence of this "Nobel nomination" to the court, if he is willing to claim it in every other forum?

Why couldn't he provide any evidence of past success for the proposed therapies he claimed could improve her condition?

And while he might have been worked pro bono just for right-to-life principles (you're right I didn't check to see if he was paid for his testimony), he might also have been working "on spec" since he offered to try out some unproven experimental treatments on Terri.
 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
1,355
0
0
Originally posted by: Chadder007


Wow....the forum is full of misinformed people tonight...
She doesn't have just a brain stem. Other doctors have read the CAT scans and said that it was read wrong by Micheals doctor. Also no MRI or other scans have been made at all.

The courts disagree with you
link
The Second District's first opinion in this case explained:
Over the span of this last decade, Theresa's brain has deteriorated because of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid 1996, the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point, much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true miracle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs.

Oh thats right, you said there was some disagreement about the cat scans....
again, the court weighs in:
Although the physicians are not in complete agreement concerning the extent of Mrs. Schiavo's brain damage, they all agree that the brain scans show extensive permanent damage to her brain. The only debate between the doctors is whether she has a small amount of isolated living tissue in her cerebral cortex or whether she has no living tissue in her cerebral cortex.
wow, a small amount of isolated living tissue!! start the rehab, she'll be walking and talking in no time!!

now please, explain how myself and the courts are misinformed.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
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I find it ironic that you call my quotes from transcripts of Schiavo's testimony in the malpractice trial "non-sensical and unproven slander" as you do a hatchet job on Hammesfahr with absolutely no facts.

I expect better from you, Dave.

 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Clearly, there's differences of opinion within the medical community.

Frankly, I don't trust the medical opinion opinion of phuysicians hired by a right-to-die attorney, especially when MRI and PET scan haven't even been done.

Renowned neurologist: Schiavo can eat with aid & is not in ?persistent vegetative state?

Surely you aren't talking about William Hammesfahr RIP! Wow, I can do this all night you know....

All the "experts" put forth by the parents have lacked the evidence for their claims. They lacked so much as a single study showing their efforts would work.

Perhaps their chief "expert", William Hammesfahr, a man known for claiming that his procedure works on every vaguely neurological based illness out there, but even he doesn't claim it cures people, and he's provided no substantial evidence for any of his claims other than one tiny study showing that his work may have helped people with whiplash (who were also being treated by other doctors at the time).

Not that it matters much for his demands: he has a history of insisting his patients provide their money in cash up front. The Schindlers love to describe him as having receiving a Nobel-prize nomination in 1999, but the truth is Nobel-prize nomination lists aren't released to the public for fifty years after the original awards.

Like the other "experts" provided by the parents, Hammesfahr hasn't published any studies in journals about patients in the same condition as Terri.

That's not to say many people haven't heard of him, but that's thanks to work he's had published in the most prestigious medical journal available: The National Enquirer.

:roll:


 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Riprorin
She had therapy for a couple up until the malpractice trial in 1993 and was making progress.

After Schiavo won a big settlement, he cut of treatment.

Terri hasn't had any rehabilitative therapy since 1993.

Go away RIP if you are just going to repeat the same lies that COURT DOCUMENTS say are lies. You don't have a leg to stand on here dude. Usually, it is just people fighting over opinions here, you have taken the leap into trying to fight court records with links to right wing websites. You haven't a clue left if you ever really had one to begin with.

PLONK