Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[SpatiallyAware]

chill dude, i have a CCW from my county in Colorado and NO WHERE is it written that shooting somebody over a verbal threat is justified as self-defense. read 7 post up for For the law in Florida where this crime took place. if i knew what state spidey was in I am sure his state would say the same.

It wasn't really directed at you, as you seem to know CCW laws better than many in this thread.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Lulz, that was my thinking exactly.

Sheriff: Dude, I don't usually go to these CC classes...
AG: Inorite? But I heard Spidey's going to be here so fuck yeah.
Sheriff: Fuck yeah.

Spidey delivers once again. :biggrin:

Lol! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[soundforbjt]

I'll bet he had been drinking at the wedding and that's why he "fled" the scene. Should be easy to prove unless everyone at the wedding lies for him.

 

[Geosurface]

I certainly think it's very possible that this guy was a surly drunk asshole who did something extremely questionable.

And yet, I do find it hard to believe that this guy would just bust out his gun and unload into this car simply because the kids rebuffed him when asked to turn their music down. It's just hard to believe...

Don't any of you who are calling for his head have a hard time believing he'd just do that?

To me it seems more believable that, right or wrong, he thought they posed a threat.

 

[Corporate Thug]

I certainly think it's very possible that this guy was a surly drunk asshole who did something extremely questionable.

And yet, I do find it hard to believe that this guy would just bust out his gun and unload into this car simply because the kids rebuffed him when asked to turn their music down. It's just hard to believe...

Don't any of you who are calling for his head have a hard time believing he'd just do that?

To me it seems more believable that, right or wrong, he thought they posed a threat.

the not calling the cops things cuts too much against the credibility of his self defense argument IMO.

 

[Geosurface]

the not calling the cops things cuts too much against the credibility of his self defense argument IMO.

I think the fleeing thing is indicative of panic, maybe he had some alcohol in his system after the wedding... maybe he was worried about the cops finding that out. Worried about getting the Zimmerman treatment.

Questioning what he'd done and just generally panicking... that'd be fairly normal even if he did nothing strictly wrong. Maybe after he opened fire he realized it hadn't been a gun he saw?

I dunno.

To me, the running and not calling cops isn't definitive at all.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I explained to you how a weapon doesn't matter and doesn't have to be present.

The verbal threats against his life are enough to lawfully shoot.

You just have to say, "OMG, he's coming right at me" before you open fire.

I'm not sure how well the self defense argument holds up when this guy is the one who initiated the confrontation to begin with. Can't help but wonder if he would have done that if he didn't have a gun on him. Do they teach that in CCW class? To go out of your way to pick a fight? I'm really curious.

This guy wasn't stopping or preventing a crime, he was confronting people who were being discourteous... Very very poor judgement on his part and he followed it up with even worse judgement. I'd bet you a million dollars he wishes he could undo the shitstorm he's in now.

 

[Corporate Thug]

I think the fleeing thing is indicative of panic, maybe he had some alcohol in his system after the wedding... maybe he was worried about the cops finding that out. Worried about getting the Zimmerman treatment.

Questioning what he'd done and just generally panicking... that'd be fairly normal even if he did nothing strictly wrong. Maybe after he opened fire he realized it hadn't been a gun he saw?

I dunno.

To me, the running and not calling cops isn't definitive at all.

Really? You wouldn't think to call the cops after discharging a firearm into a car several times in self defense in a public place?

To be clear I'm referring to AFTER he was already home and had time to digest what had transpired.

 

[They Live]

I certainly think it's very possible that this guy was a surly drunk asshole who did something extremely questionable.

And yet, I do find it hard to believe that this guy would just bust out his gun and unload into this car simply because the kids rebuffed him when asked to turn their music down. It's just hard to believe...

Don't any of you who are calling for his head have a hard time believing he'd just do that?

To me it seems more believable that, right or wrong, he thought they posed a threat.

Seems plausible, however, if he wrongly assumed they were threatening him, then it's murder. As of now, I haven't seen any evidence corroborating his claim that they verbally threatened him, and flashed the bottom barrel of a gun at him. It would be interesting to see what the other three teens have to say.

 

[They Live]

Really? You wouldn't think to call the cops after discharging a firearm into a car several times in self defense in a public place?

To be clear I'm referring to AFTER he was already home and had time to digest what had transpired.

I know if I shot somebody in self defense, and fled the scene to avoid further attack, I would call the cops immediately. But everyone is different I guess.

 

[QueBert]

I certainly think it's very possible that this guy was a surly drunk asshole who did something extremely questionable.

And yet, I do find it hard to believe that this guy would just bust out his gun and unload into this car simply because the kids rebuffed him when asked to turn their music down. It's just hard to believe...

Don't any of you who are calling for his head have a hard time believing he'd just do that?

To me it seems more believable that, right or wrong, he thought they posed a threat.

I have a hard time believing the kids pulled out a gun because he told them to turn the music down. Seeing as we have absolutely no idea if they were anything more than young ass males who wanted to show off a loud stereo. There's only proof here 1 person had a gun, and he shot another person. With no proof pointing to anything else, I gotta suspect him and his story.

 

[They Live]

I have a hard time believing the kids pulled out a gun because he told them to turn the music down. Seeing as we have absolutely no idea if they were anything more than young ass males who wanted to show off a loud stereo. There's only proof here 1 person had a gun, and he shot another person. With no proof pointing to anything else, I gotta suspect him and his story.

Truth be told, we don't even know if the music was all that loud to begin with. All we have is the word of the shooter. I haven't seen anything that corroborates what he claims, including whether or not the music was truly "blasting".

 

[spidey07]

You just have to say, "OMG, he's coming right at me" before you open fire.

I'm not sure how well the self defense argument holds up when this guy is the one who initiated the confrontation to begin with. Can't help but wonder if he would have done that if he didn't have a gun on him. Do they teach that in CCW class? To go out of your way to pick a fight? I'm really curious.

This guy wasn't stopping or preventing a crime, he was confronting people who were being discourteous... Very very poor judgement on his part and he followed it up with even worse judgement. I'd bet you a million dollars he wishes he could undo the shitstorm he's in now.

Asking another citizen to turn their music down in a very civilized manner is not against the law.

The thugs threatening his life very much is, and in 24 states that can get you shot. Don't do that.

 

[They Live]

Asking another citizen to turn their music down in a very civilized manner is not against the law.

The thugs threatening his life very much is, and in 24 states that can get you shot. Don't do that.

You are referring to these teens as thugs without any legitimate proof outside of what one shooter claims.

Interesting.

 

[QueBert]

Truth be told, we don't even know if the music was all that loud to begin with. All we have is the word of the shooter. I haven't seen anything that corroborates what he claims, including whether or not the music was truly "blasting".

If it was black people and it was loud 99.9% chance it was rap. Which according to most on ATOT isn't even music. So really all the prosecution has to do is put him on the stand, and ask him about the loud music, when he speaks on it they point out rap isn't even music.

BOOM case closed & he's getting life in prison for murder 1.

 

[Geosurface]

I certainly have not ruled out the possibility that this guy was completely in the wrong and deserves life in prison for murder 1.

I would just ask that those of you on the other side not COMPLETELY rule out, yet, the possibility that he was in legitimate fear of his life when he shot.

Consider for a moment what the most likely reaction of a car full of the type of teens who blast loud rap music loud enough to draw someone over to ask them to turn it down, would be. Do you envision that reaction to be "Oh heavens, we hadn't realized it was so loud! A thousand pardons, sir. We shall turn it down without delay." or even "Buzz off, dude, it's a free country." ?

Or is it entirely likely that the reaction was something more like "Man FUCK you, bitch ass cracker. Who this cracka bitch think he is? Turn down our music? TURN DOWN OUR MUSIC? MAN FUCK YOU! Who the FUCK you think you are?" etc etc and is it really that hard to believe that, feeling themselves, emboldened by their numbers, they might do something stupid to try to make him think they had a gun or that they were going to beat his ass?

Is that really that hard to imagine?

And is it harder or easier to imagine than a guy on vacation coming from his son's wedding just deciding to unload a clip into some strangers' car because they wouldn't turn their music down?

 

[alkemyst]

your state attorney general and your county sheriff attended your CC class? and they both said its ok for you to shoot somebody because they only verbally say "im going to kill you"? lol are you seriously going to use that as a defense? but but but, sir the sheriff said i could!!!

again show me the STATE statue that says you can shoot people for making a threat.

5 min on google.

http://www.flcwla.com/faq.htm#use_of_deadly_force

Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?
A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

I don't think you really understand Florida laws bro.

Someone tells me they are going to kill me, can I just kill them.

No.

Have fear for my life.

Fuck yeah.

profit.

Of course unless it can make news.

Then the people that should wish they could do this will wish they can punish the wrong guy.


I don't carry a gun yet. Just knife and spray.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I certainly have not ruled out the possibility that this guy was completely in the wrong and deserves life in prison for murder 1.

I would just ask that those of you on the other side not COMPLETELY rule out, yet, the possibility that he was in legitimate fear of his life when he shot.

Consider for a moment what the most likely reaction of a car full of the type of teens who blast loud rap music loud enough to draw someone over to ask them to turn it down, would be. Do you envision that reaction to be "Oh heavens, we hadn't realized it was so loud! A thousand pardons, sir. We shall turn it down without delay." or even "Buzz off, dude, it's a free country." ?

Or is it entirely likely that the reaction was something more like "Man FUCK you, bitch ass cracker. Who this cracka bitch think he is? Turn down our music? TURN DOWN OUR MUSIC? MAN FUCK YOU! Who the FUCK you think you are?" etc etc and is it really that hard to believe that, feeling themselves, emboldened by their numbers, they might do something stupid to try to make him think they had a gun or that they were going to beat his ass?

Is that really that hard to imagine?

And is it harder or easier to imagine than a guy on vacation coming from his son's wedding just deciding to unload a clip into some strangers' car because they wouldn't turn their music down?

I have encountered that and I just ignore it.

 

[Geosurface]

I have encountered that and I just ignore it.

You're also the type of dude to have 60k posts on a tech computer board for nerds online... so, call me a stereotyper if you will but, I suspect you have a better grasp of civility and de-escalation than the average 17 year old black kid who drives around bumping bass.

I could be wrong.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Asking another citizen to turn their music down in a very civilized manner is not against the law.

The thugs threatening his life very much is, and in 24 states that can get you shot. Don't do that.

You're changing the subject. I asked what they teach you in CCW school. Should you escalate a situation by being confrontational? And this situation escalated quickly I suspect, over nothing more than loud music in a gas station parking lot, a situation which could have very easily been avoided... in much the same way you have avoided my question.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You're also the type of dude to have 60k posts on a tech computer board for nerds online... so, call me a stereotyper if you will but, I suspect you have a better grasp of civility and de-escalation than the average 17 year old black kid who drives around bumping bass.

I could be wrong.

I haven't called you anything. And I've been a member here for close to 10 years. One accumulates posts during that amount of time.

BTW-Corner of Epic and Awesome above has almost 70k posts and he lives in FL and probably agrees more with you than he does with me. Why don't you call him out on his post count?

 

[They Live]

I certainly have not ruled out the possibility that this guy was completely in the wrong and deserves life in prison for murder 1.

I would just ask that those of you on the other side not COMPLETELY rule out, yet, the possibility that he was in legitimate fear of his life when he shot.

Consider for a moment what the most likely reaction of a car full of the type of teens who blast loud rap music loud enough to draw someone over to ask them to turn it down, would be. Do you envision that reaction to be "Oh heavens, we hadn't realized it was so loud! A thousand pardons, sir. We shall turn it down without delay." or even "Buzz off, dude, it's a free country." ?

Or is it entirely likely that the reaction was something more like "Man FUCK you, bitch ass cracker. Who this cracka bitch think he is? Turn down our music? TURN DOWN OUR MUSIC? MAN FUCK YOU! Who the FUCK you think you are?" etc etc and is it really that hard to believe that, feeling themselves, emboldened by their numbers, they might do something stupid to try to make him think they had a gun or that they were going to beat his ass?

Is that really that hard to imagine?

And is it harder or easier to imagine than a guy on vacation coming from his son's wedding just deciding to unload a clip into some strangers' car because they wouldn't turn their music down?

I haven't ruled out that his claim of self defense is true, though I'm not sure why you had to throw "cracka" in there. I can't assume everyone who is black, young, and a male, automatically refers to white people "as crackas". That's the same thing as assuming that every young white male refers to blacks as "niggas".

Of course, we have no idea yet what he actually said to the teens, what tone he used, and whether or not he was the one who verbally threatened them first (assuming there was any verbal threats said at all that night).

 

[Corporate Thug]

Or is it entirely likely that the reaction was something more like "Man FUCK you, bitch ass cracker. Who this cracka bitch think he is? Turn down our music? TURN DOWN OUR MUSIC? MAN FUCK YOU! Who the FUCK you think you are?" etc etc and is it really that hard to believe that, feeling themselves, emboldened by their numbers, they might do something stupid to try to make him think they had a gun or that they were going to beat his ass?

Is that really that hard to imagine?

I can imagine that happening...but again you are leaving the detail of not contacting the authorities out. That makes that self defense scenario MUCH MUCH harder to imagine.

 

[Geosurface]

I haven't called you anything. And I've been a member here for close to 10 years. One accumulates posts during that amount of time.

BTW-Corner of Epic and Awesome above has almost 70k posts and he lives in FL and probably agrees more with you than he does with me. Why don't you call him out on his post count?

I actually wasn't trying to call you out at all, I was just trying to point out that I doubted you were the sort of person who would be an outright thug who escalated shit.

Sorry it came across as a call out, honestly wasn't.

Look at how many posts I've accrued in my short time here, I have no room to talk.

 

[QueBert]

Or is it entirely likely that the reaction was something more like "Man FUCK you, bitch ass cracker. Who this cracka bitch think he is? Turn down our music? TURN DOWN OUR MUSIC? MAN FUCK YOU! Who the FUCK you think you are?" etc etc and is it really that hard to believe that, feeling themselves, emboldened by their numbers, they might do something stupid to try to make him think they had a gun or that they were going to beat his ass?

Is that really that hard to imagine?

Here's some food for thought, if the music was anywhere as loud as he's probably trying to claim it was. He had to either yell at the top of his lungs or literally walk right up the window, where he would still have to raise his voice considerably to be heard. Where I come from a loud voice is viewed as a sign of aggression. I'd bet money they either totally ignored him or told him to fuck off. He didn't approach them to nicely ask, he was upset that he was being forced to be subjected to rap music for a whopping 120 seconds.

And if he was able to be heard over the music, then it really wasn't that loud and he was simply being a dick because he hates rap music.