Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[Capt Caveman]

The shooters account could very well be true. It could also be completely bogus, including whether or not the music was truly blasting. Right now, all we have is the shooters account, nothing more.

We know the evidence the police/attorney general have is enough to charge him with murder.

 

[spidey07]

you realize that there is a believability aspect that a jury needs to be convinced of right? If you can just THINK you saw something and use that as the basis of self defense, then nobody would ever get charged or go to jail.

Also, still waiting for a plausible explanation of leaving the scene/not calling cops...

I explained to you how a weapon doesn't matter and doesn't have to be present.

The verbal threats against his life are enough to lawfully shoot.

 

[spidey07]

We know the evidence the police/attorney general have is enough to charge him with murder.

No, we don't know that AT ALL. Why did this not go to a grand jury to determine if there is evidence of a crime?

 

[Capt Caveman]

"I wanted to remove my self from the threat and situation as quickly as possible, so I fled"

And the next day, check out of the hotel and go home without contacting the police. He was intoxicated from coming from his son's wedding got agtiated by the kids music after they told the old man to stfu, he shot at them.

 

[They Live]

We know the evidence the police/attorney general have is enough to charge him with murder.

That seems to be the key difference between this and the Zimmerman case. The SPD refused to charge Zimmerman with a crime because the evidence did in fact seem to support his claim of self defense. That doesn't seem to be the case here, but who knows.

 

[Geosurface]

We know the evidence the police/attorney general have is enough to charge him with murder.

Zimmerman case says otherwise.

Keep in mind, this is the same state, a black kid of the same age, this time an actual WHITE shooter, in the wake of the Trayvon situation... and it's the SAME PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE!

If you don't think these people would have every motivation at this point to charge this guy instantly, regardless of the evidence, to be seen by the black community in particular as seeking justice, seeking it fast, avoid the same accusations that hit with Trayvon... that the police didn't care, etc.

Well, if you don't recognize that possibility, you're nuts.

 

[Corporate Thug]

I explained to you how a weapon doesn't matter and doesn't have to be present.

The verbal threats against his life are enough to lawfully shoot.

Of course it matters...It determines the level of reasonable force.

still no explanation for not calling the cops I see...

 

[wirednuts]

Anyone care to deny that the entire reason young punks blast their music at ear-shattering levels is specifically to antagonize, intimidate, and annoy the members of real society around them?

That their hope is to impose themselves upon others, at least on some level, that is at least part of their motivation...

It's basically a way of throwing down a gauntlet, laying out a challenge to the society around them "do something about it." they get a little buzz off the feeling that they are going around annoying people, probably especially the feeling of annoying white people, and I think that's a big part of the appeal.

The type of people who do this, who attempt to intimidate those around them like this, are VERY OFTEN also the type who would react exactly how he describes, with profanity, threats, etc.

This guy may be a trigger happy scumbag who should rot in jail, but I wouldn't be so fast to jump to that conclusion. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his account. It's not that hard to believe.

EDIT:

Oh and btw I acknowledge there are some who do this and are just total posers who would cower when confronted... though, numbers certainly embolden. I also acknowledge there are probably some who do NOT wish to annoy those around them, but I feel this is a small percentage.

come on dude. i know a lot of harley riders too but theyre not that bad of people.

 

[spidey07]

Of course it matters...It determines the level of reasonable force.

still no explanation for not calling the cops I see...

It does not matter. If you verbally threaten somebody's life, they can lawfully shoot you.

You are flat out wrong.

Explanation. I was still so shook up after the assault on my person I didn't know what to do. I thought I was going to be killed or they would come after me.

 

[Corporate Thug]

You know just as well as I do that if they were in fact "little thugs" that they aren't going to toss a gun on the dashboard after something like this happening.

IF they had a gun, they most definitely would have disposed of it LONG before police arrived.

Continue ignoring logic, being naive, and promoting your agenda.

He is more than free to pitch that theory to the jury...at this point, the evidence it doesn't appear to convincing unless some neutral third party steps forward.

Continue your speculation without any evidence.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Zimmerman case says otherwise.

Keep in mind, this is the same state, a black kid of the same age, this time an actual WHITE shooter, in the wake of the Trayvon situation... and it's the SAME PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE!

If you don't think these people would have every motivation at this point to charge this guy instantly, regardless of the evidence, to be seen by the black community in particular as seeking justice, seeking it fast, avoid the same accusations that hit with Trayvon... that the police didn't care, etc.

Well, if you don't recognize that possibility, you're nuts.

LOL!!! Yes, that case has been played out and we already know the outcome.

 

[Corporate Thug]

It does not matter. If you verbally threaten somebody's life, they can lawfully shoot you.

You are flat out wrong.

The response has to proportionate to the threat.

Just look at the statute (Crimes 776.012):

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

You are flat out wrong.

 

[Corporate Thug]

It does not matter. If you verbally threaten somebody's life, they can lawfully shoot you.

You are flat out wrong.

Explanation. I was still so shook up after the assault on my person I didn't know what to do. I thought I was going to be killed or they would come after me.

The series of explanations are not convincing...but that's what lawyers are for. Anyone can have a story...having a convincing story is a different issue all together.

 

[wirednuts]

all cases are determined on a case by case basis ruled by a jury of your peers oversighted by a fucking judge. period end of entire thread stop polluting bytes all over the internet thanks!

 

[spidey07]

Thanks. You proved my point.

This is covered in concealed carry classes. Read it again.

 

[Geosurface]

come on dude. i know a lot of harley riders too but theyre not that bad of people.

I feel exactly the same way about them.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word

 

[Corporate Thug]

all cases are determined on a case by case basis ruled by a jury of your peers oversighted by a fucking judge. period end of entire thread stop polluting bytes all over the internet thanks!

how would I pass the time at work in that case?

 

[Phokus]

It does not matter. If you verbally threaten somebody's life, they can lawfully shoot you.

You are flat out wrong.

Explanation. I was still so shook up after the assault on my person I didn't know what to do. I thought I was going to be killed or they would come after me.

Yes, i'm sure his throught process was, 'oh shit, they could still come for me at home, better not waste my time calling the cops!'

Give me a fucking break.

 

[clamum]

Why didn't the trigger happy tool just ignore the loud music instead of getting into an altercation?

 

[Phokus]

Why didn't the trigger happy tool just ignore the loud music instead of getting into an altercation?

Ex-fucking-actly.

He was at a gas station, it's not like he was STAYING there for very long.

 

[MrScott81]

Anyone care to deny that the entire reason young punks blast their music at ear-shattering levels is specifically to antagonize, intimidate, and annoy the members of real society around them?

That their hope is to impose themselves upon others, at least on some level, that is at least part of their motivation...

It's basically a way of throwing down a gauntlet, laying out a challenge to the society around them "do something about it." they get a little buzz off the feeling that they are going around annoying people, probably especially the feeling of annoying white people, and I think that's a big part of the appeal.

The type of people who do this, who attempt to intimidate those around them like this, are VERY OFTEN also the type who would react exactly how he describes, with profanity, threats, etc.

This guy may be a trigger happy scumbag who should rot in jail, but I wouldn't be so fast to jump to that conclusion. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his account. It's not that hard to believe.

EDIT:

Oh and btw I acknowledge there are some who do this and are just total posers who would cower when confronted... though, numbers certainly embolden. I also acknowledge there are probably some who do NOT wish to annoy those around them, but I feel this is a small percentage.

Your EDIT basically acknowledges that what you said above is false. Are you arguing with yourself? Do SOME people do it for this reason? Probably. Do all of them? Definitely not. You are making an enormous generalization. I think a majority of people that blast their music is to either a) show off their system or b) try to impress someone. In either case, it's all about trying to be cool which is what most teenagers are worried about. I don't think the majority of people blast their music to try to dare someone to tell them to turn it down. This is just my opinion.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Note he was denied bail on Monday.

 

[QueBert]

Ex-fucking-actly.

He was at a gas station, it's not like he was STAYING there for very long.

Older white people generally don't just dislike rap music they HATE IT. To my mom all the stereo had to be was loud enough to where she could make out it was rap. If you had asked her that was still 10x too loud. The shooter here could have very well been P&N'esk.

If that's the case I could just imagine him seeing black people with loud music he doesn't like hearing sitting in an SUV and he just short circuited. That combo would set off the 3 biggest "black thug" qualifications according to the P&N guidelines. If they also had on Hoodies? JEBUS, he probably thought he was doing his duty.

 

[grrl]

Florida. I guessed it.

 

[Geosurface]

Your EDIT basically acknowledges that what you said above is false. Are you arguing with yourself? Do SOME people do it for this reason? Probably. Do all of them? Definitely not. You are making an enormous generalization. I think a majority of people that blast their music is to either a) show off their system or b) try to impress someone. In either case, it's all about trying to be cool which is what most teenagers are worried about. I don't think the majority of people blast their music to try to dare someone to tell them to turn it down. This is just my opinion.

I'm not arguing with myself nor acknowledging that I was wrong, it's called being realistic and understanding/admitting that nothing is ever true in 100% of cases. There are very few absolutes in our world.

And I also did not say I felt their desire was always to actually have someone come and tell them to turn it down, I think their desire is just to draw attention to themselves, to intimidate, to annoy, to disrupt. They want you to grumble, but keep it to yourself. They don't desire that you come tell them to turn it down.