Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[Robsasman]

Pointing a gun or object like a gun: Illegal, interpreted as a threat on one's life.

If he can prove that then no problem, he should get off. But obviously he hasn't yet.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Here's some good advice for you, if you plan on visiting our beautiful country..

We have excellent self defense laws. You should not act like a thug and intimidate someone or you might get shot. You should not in any way threaten another person's life, or you might get shot.

It really is a very simple concept... I'm not sure why it seems to be so difficult to grasp.

Good to know, to not act intimidating may be hard though in a nation scared sheitless about pretty much everything in the world.

But i'd try.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Maybe he didn't know he hit anyone? Maybe he was running to his car while shooting, and thankfully left before it escalated.

If I had to guess, I would say that most likely one of the kids had one of those realistic BB guns. They pointed it at the guy and he started shooting. They tossed the BB gun before the cops showed up.

There's no law (in my state, anyway) that requires someone to call the police in that situation.

Wait. Even if he didn't hit anyone, it's okay to flee and not call the cops? And it's legal to discharge your weapon in public like he did? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And here you go again, pull shit out of thin air. No evidence that these kids had a weapon but you're saying they had a BB gun? more LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

If we're going to make shit up, how about the guy was intoxicated and these kids hurt his feelings so he shot them and went home to sober up? Or the guy saw the black kid in a hoodie and he had a flashback of Trayvon Martin ghetto stomping Zimmerman and he didn't want to get stomped too?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I still haven't gotten any answer to my question whether it's ok to just flee the scene and not report the shooting to the police.

Does anyone know?

 

[AznAnarchy99]

I still haven't gotten any answer to my question whether it's ok to just flee the scene and not report the shooting to the police.

Does anyone know?

Not sure of the law, but wouldnt you think the guy would call the police and say "Hey there are some gang bangers pointing a gun at me so I shot them in self defense, go apprehend them in case they hurt someone" instead of driving back to their hotel to go to sleep?

 

[drebo]

Shit like this wouldn't happen if people taught their kids respect.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Not sure of the law, but wouldnt you think the guy would call the police and say "Hey there are some gang bangers pointing a gun at me so I shot them in self defense, go apprehend them in case they hurt someone" instead of driving back to their hotel to go to sleep?

If it had been me i would have called 911 in case there were people hurt and to report the incident.

I would think that if it's against the law to hit and run without reporting the incident then shooting someone, fleeing the scene and never reporting it to the police would be illegal too.

I do believe that witness testimonies and the camera footage will show what really happened though, it just struck me as the worst possible thing to do if it really was self defense.

 

[HumblePie]

First a few facts that other posters should be aware of.

1) There is no law that compels him to report a self defense kill. Maybe there should be, but there isn't. So to answer JoSs' question, that answer would be no. In that particular area of the US he doesn't have to call the cops. Strange but true.

2) Cops do not have the video at the time of the initial media reports. The media even stated the cops found him by eye witnesses remembering his license plate number. The number needed to track him down came from another person on the scene, not the video. Why? Video has to be subpoena'd and a warrant to gather it as evidence has to be done correctly. Or it can't be used in court.

3) Cops may or may not already have the video and may or may not have already reviewed it. Either way, the media and the public doesn't know just yet. However, we will know in due time.

4) JoS, it's pretty much a known fact that every gas station in America is COVERED with security cameras. I doubt he fled to avoid being caught as he was found later in his home. If he thought he committed a crime, he would have to know he was on camera along with his car and identifying information. Which means if he was seeking to avoid arrest and detention by law enforcement, he'd had been looking to flee to country or hiding in a hole by that point.

Again, we don't know the whole story here just yet. However, this case should have PLENTY of evidence to clear up any misconceptions people are putting forth at this time.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

First a few facts that other posters should be aware of.

1) There is no law that compels him to report a self defense kill. Maybe there should be, but there isn't. So to answer JoSs' question, that answer would be no. In that particular area of the US he doesn't have to call the cops. Strange but true.

2) Cops do not have the video at the time of the initial media reports. The media even stated the cops found him by eye witnesses remembering his license plate number. The number needed to track him down came from another person on the scene, not the video. Why? Video has to be subpoena'd and a warrant to gather it as evidence has to be done correctly. Or it can't be used in court.

3) Cops may or may not already have the video and may or may not have already reviewed it. Either way, the media and the public doesn't know just yet. However, we will know in due time.

4) JoS, it's pretty much a known fact that every gas station in America is COVERED with security cameras. I doubt he fled to avoid being caught as he was found later in his home. If he thought he committed a crime, he would have to know he was on camera along with his car and identifying information. Which means if he was seeking to avoid arrest and detention by law enforcement, he'd had been looking to flee to country or hiding in a hole by that point.

Again, we don't know the whole story here just yet. However, this case should have PLENTY of evidence to clear up any misconceptions people are putting forth at this time.

1) yeah, that is strange but ok, he didn't mess up on that one then.

2) What media? The article states "He left the scene and returned to his hotel but he was later traced from closed-circuit television footage.". In the UK the police can review a tape to catch someone suspected of murder and i'm fairly sure they can do the same in the US even if they cannot demand that the tape be handed over.

3) So maybe they do but you just said they don't?

4) Still seems to me that fleeing the scene and not reporting it is suspicious but this is my opinion on the matter and i said as much.

I agree that there will probably be a lot of information forthcoming and the best any of us has to go on isn't much at all right now.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Wait. Even if he didn't hit anyone, it's okay to flee and not call the cops? And it's legal to discharge your weapon in public like he did? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And here you go again, pull shit out of thin air. No evidence that these kids had a weapon but you're saying they had a BB gun? more LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

If we're going to make shit up, how about the guy was intoxicated and these kids hurt his feelings so he shot them and went home to sober up? Or the guy saw the black kid in a hoodie and he had a flashback of Trayvon Martin ghetto stomping Zimmerman and he didn't want to get stomped too?

"If I had to guess, I would say that most likely one of the kids had one of those realistic BB guns. They pointed it at the guy and he started shooting. They tossed the BB gun before the cops showed up."

If I had to guess
If I had to guess
If I had to guess
If I had to guess

 

[AznAnarchy99]

1) yeah, that is strange but ok, he didn't mess up on that one then.

2) What media? The article states "He left the scene and returned to his hotel but he was later traced from closed-circuit television footage.". In the UK the police can review a tape to catch someone suspected of murder and i'm fairly sure they can do the same in the US even if they cannot demand that the tape be handed over.

3) So maybe they do but you just said they don't?

4) Still seems to me that fleeing the scene and not reporting it is suspicious but this is my opinion on the matter and i said as much.

I agree that there will probably be a lot of information forthcoming and the best any of us has to go on isn't much at all right now.

Adrenaline could of made him forget about the cameras. I know when I pull into a gas station, cameras are probably the last thing on my mind. Either way, agreed, leaving the scene after the events is weird.

 

[HumblePie]

1) yeah, that is strange but ok, he didn't mess up on that one then.

2) What media? The article states "He left the scene and returned to his hotel but he was later traced from closed-circuit television footage.". In the UK the police can review a tape to catch someone suspected of murder and i'm fairly sure they can do the same in the US even if they cannot demand that the tape be handed over.

3) So maybe they do but you just said they don't?

4) Still seems to me that fleeing the scene and not reporting it is suspicious but this is my opinion on the matter and i said as much.

I agree that there will probably be a lot of information forthcoming and the best any of us has to go on isn't much at all right now.

The media reports I saw, which is the news articles linked and a few others, said the cops tracked him down from an eye witness that remembered his license plate number. Not from the video at the gas station.

As for the video at the gas station, it is the property of the gas station and not the cops. The cops in our country can't just walk in and take it legally and use it as evidence. Our legal system doesn't work that way. They have submit a formal request (warrant) to obtain that information for it to be used as evidence. Just think of it as doing the paper work to dot I's and cross T's. The main reason for this is because of our Constitution has a little amendment that prevents illegal searches and seizures here in the US. You blokes in the UK don't have that little bit of law. So to make sure everyone is being honest, cops have to fill out a request for the evidence that belongs to a private entity. Which then gets granted by the courts to be legally obtained. This also acts as a deterrent against cops "planting" evidence at the crime scene. Although I will say in practice, many times the cops will go in and ask on the spot to see the video and back fill the paperwork for it later. As long as the owner gives permission at the time, it's not that big of a deal.

Since this incident went down Friday night, not all the facts are going to be made known to the media in an ongoing investigation. That is just how things work here. When the investigation is complete, then the media will be given more facts if things are done properly in terms of information dispersal. Of course, many cases with enough public pressure have too many "leaks" that could end up being incorrect or misconstrued. Which happened on a very recent case that is highly debated in another forum here.

4) I agree that fleeing seems suspicious as well. I know that if I just shot someone in self defense I would be calling the cops and waiting for them. That is if it was safe to do so. Otherwise I'd get to a safe location that I could call the cops from and do so.

 

[Sonikku]

I'm looking at the kids pic and judging by his hoodie and alternate factors, I'd say he was probably up to no good.

 

[3chordcharlie]

I'm looking at the kids pic and judging by his hoodie and alternate factors, I'd say he was probably up to no good.

Looks like your typical skittle-munching gang-banger.

This one's a long way from settled I suspect. And could go either way.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

The media reports I saw, which is the news articles linked and a few others, said the cops tracked him down from an eye witness that remembered his license plate number. Not from the video at the gas station.

Any links to that? The article in the OP states "He left the scene and returned to his hotel but he was later traced from closed-circuit television footage." and nothing else.

As for the video at the gas station, it is the property of the gas station and not the cops. The cops in our country can't just walk in and take it legally and use it as evidence. Our legal system doesn't work that way. They have submit a formal request (warrant) to obtain that information for it to be used as evidence. Just think of it as doing the paper work to dot I's and cross T's. The main reason for this is because of our Constitution has a little amendment that prevents illegal searches and seizures here in the US. You blokes in the UK don't have that little bit of law. So to make sure everyone is being honest, cops have to fill out a request for the evidence that belongs to a private entity. Which then gets granted by the courts to be legally obtained. This also acts as a deterrent against cops "planting" evidence at the crime scene. Although I will say in practice, many times the cops will go in and ask on the spot to see the video and back fill the paperwork for it later. As long as the owner gives permission at the time, it's not that big of a deal.

Right, but could they review it on the gas stations monitor? They couldn't take the video without a subpoena in England either but they commonly do review it on the monitor right there on the spot.

Since this incident went down Friday night, not all the facts are going to be made known to the media in an ongoing investigation. That is just how things work here. When the investigation is complete, then the media will be given more facts if things are done properly in terms of information dispersal. Of course, many cases with enough public pressure have too many "leaks" that could end up being incorrect or misconstrued. Which happened on a very recent case that is highly debated in another forum here.

4) I agree that fleeing seems suspicious as well. I know that if I just shot someone in self defense I would be calling the cops and waiting for them. That is if it was safe to do so. Otherwise I'd get to a safe location that I could call the cops from and do so.

Yeah, i know how it works and you're basically just repeating what i just said.

We'll have to wait for more information to know much about this with any sort of certainty.

 

[Geosurface]

Waiting for Geosurface to join in and defend the murderer.

Wait no longer!

Actually, in all seriousness, I have no idea what to make of this case yet. As others have said, we need to wait for more information and evidence to come out.

I will say, though, based on what information is available now, I do tend more toward what Spatially Aware and HumblePie are saying here.

I think it's sad we've become a society that automatically thinks the worst of the middle aged family man and automatically sides with the group of young punks blasting loud rap music and trying to front as "thugs." Based on the accounts of this SUV full of kids, the music, the volume level, and the kid's picture, I find it INCREDIBLY believable that these kids were trying to act hard and probably spat out a lot of "man FUCK YOU" shit to this guy when he asked them to turn down the music.

Now, if you ask me, if you're at this gas station in an area you don't even live (hotel), and you need to be there for at most a few minutes... just get your fucking gas, shake your head at the loud music, and bitch about it to your wife as you drive off. It's not necessary or smart to walk up on an SUV full of punk thugs and confront them. Bad call.

Still, perhaps our society suffers from too many people thinking like I'm thinking in that regard... too much backing down, and maybe that's why this thug shit has gotten so out of control in the first place. They're emboldened by it every time they successfully intimidate everyone around them into backing down, averting their eyes, scurrying off. That's the goal. That's why they want to act hard. They want to intimidate, and when they succeed it encourages the behavior. It rarely stops at just putting on a show, though sometimes it does. It typically involves some level of criminality too, maybe just a mild level of criminality... maybe something serious.

Maybe we need more people who stand up to it, and maybe we need to go back to being a society that gives the benefit of the doubt to the middle aged family man, and not the sort of society that listens to people like Ben Crump and automatically feels so much sympathy for little punk thugs.

Now, if all this kid was doing was listening to some music with his friends... and this guy was a nut, came up to them and shot without a good reason... then fuck him, let him rot in jail, and I feel great sympathy for the kid and his friends and his family. Experimenting with thug style as a teen does not mean you should die. A lot of good kids go through phases and then come out of them later. Some of them never do anything beyond just dressing and walking a certain way. That shouldn't get anyone a death sentence.

But if they had a gun or pretended to have a gun using something that looked like one... then I think he was justified in shooting.

And as Spatially Aware said, I find it very hard to believe, at a glance, that this married dude would just start shooting at these kids on a whim for no reason... particularly after the example of George Zimmerman's life being torn apart and continuing to be torn apart. I feel like he probably at least felt that he had a good reason to shoot.

Time will tell, and I await more evidence. It's just too soon to say. Oh and I agree he should've called the cops. Whether he's required to or not.

 

[JulesMaximus]

wow... everyone's got a gun these days??

'Merica... Fuck yeah. We kill you if you look at us funny.

 

[HumblePie]

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Lawyer...s-SUV/-/475880/17566116/-/ku79pw/-/index.html

Several people at the gas station witnessed the shooting and provided police with a description of the car. One remembered Dunn's license plate number, allowing police to track him to his home in Satellite Beach, where he was arrested on Saturday.

That and several other articles with a quick google search all state the same thing JoS

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Wait no longer!

Actually, in all seriousness, I have no idea what to make of this case yet. As others have said, we need to wait for more information and evidence to come out.

I will say, though, based on what information is available now, I do tend more toward what Spatially Aware and HumblePie are saying here.

I think it's sad we've become a society that automatically thinks the worst of the middle aged family man and automatically sides with the group of young punks blasting loud rap music and trying to front as "thugs." Based on the accounts of this SUV full of kids, the music, the volume level, and the kid's picture, I find it INCREDIBLY believable that these kids were trying to act hard and probably spat out a lot of "man FUCK YOU" shit to this guy when he asked them to turn down the music.

Now, if you ask me, if you're at this gas station in an area you don't even live (hotel), and you need to be there for at most a few minutes... just get your fucking gas, shake your head at the loud music, and bitch about it to your wife as you drive off. It's not necessary or smart to walk up on an SUV full of punk thugs and confront them. Bad call.

Still, perhaps our society suffers from too many people thinking like I'm thinking in that regard... too much backing down, and maybe that's why this thug shit has gotten so out of control in the first place. They're emboldened by it every time they successfully intimidate everyone around them into backing down, averting their eyes, scurrying off. That's the goal. That's why they want to act hard. They want to intimidate, and when they succeed it encourages the behavior. It rarely stops at just putting on a show, though sometimes it does. It typically involves some level of criminality too, maybe just a mild level of criminality... maybe something serious.

Maybe we need more people who stand up to it, and maybe we need to go back to being a society that gives the benefit of the doubt to the middle aged family man, and not the sort of society that listens to people like Ben Crump and automatically feels so much sympathy for little punk thugs.

Now, if all this kid was doing was listening to some music with his friends... and this guy was a nut, came up to them and shot without a good reason... then fuck him, let him rot in jail, and I feel great sympathy for the kid and his friends and his family. Experimenting with thug style as a teen does not mean you should die. A lot of good kids go through phases and then come out of them later. Some of them never do anything beyond just dressing and walking a certain way. That shouldn't get anyone a death sentence.

But if they had a gun or pretended to have a gun using something that looked like one... then I think he was justified in shooting.

And as Spatially Aware said, I find it very hard to believe, at a glance, that this married dude would just start shooting at these kids on a whim for no reason... particularly after the example of George Zimmerman's life being torn apart and continuing to be torn apart. I feel like he probably at least felt that he had a good reason to shoot.

Time will tell, and I await more evidence. It's just too soon to say.

There is always a reason, the question here is what the reason was? Was he, like you, fed up with these types of punks or did he actually see a gun? Since they never even left the car the gun is absolutely necessary for his self defense defense isn't it?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Lawyer...s-SUV/-/475880/17566116/-/ku79pw/-/index.html



That and several other articles with a quick google search all state the same thing JoS

Thank you, so the question is which source is correct then, the article in the OP or that source.

It would seem that we don't even know that much for sure.

 

[Smoblikat]

The shooting occurred after Mr Dunn, who is white, approached Davis, who was black, to complain about loud music

They told us their races so it would be easier to identify the parties involved............and NOT because of idiotic liberal bias towards evil white men doing no good for their homies.

 

[Capt Caveman]

'Stand your ground' likely defense strategy for Michael Dunn

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -

Legal experts say Michael Dunn is facing an uphill battle when he goes to court for murder and attempted murder charges. Police said Dunn gunned down a car full of teenagers at a Southside gas station Friday night; killing 17-year-old Jordan Davis.

Davis was one of four teens inside the SUV that police said Dunn shot into.

Police said 45-year-old Michael Dunn shot at the car eight or nine times in a dispute over loud music. Dunn and his girlfriend had attended his son's wedding earlier in the day, and they were on their way back to their hotel when they stopped at the Gate gas station at Southside Boulevard and Baymeadows Road about 7:40 p.m.

Police said three 17-year-olds and an 18-year-old were in a SUV at the gas station, and Dunn told them to turn the music down.

"Evidently there were words exchanged between our victim, who was sitting in the backseat of that vehicle, and our suspect," JSO Lt. Rob Schoonover said at a news conference Monday morning. "For whatever reason, our suspect produced a weapon and began firing into the vehicle."

Jordan Davis Davis, a 17-year-old Wolfson High School student, was shot a couple of times, police said.

Investigators said Dunn's girlfriend had gone into the store to buy something at the time and was inside when the shooting happened.

"She came running outside and she jumped in the vehicle, when they took off," Schoonover said.

The woman, whose name was not released, will not face charges, police said. They said she has been cooperating with investigators.

"Mr. Dunn is going to have to answer the question, 'Why did you not call the sheriff's office? If you are reasonably protecting yourself, why did you leave the scene, get in the car, and the next day, flee the jurisdiction of Duval County'," said Jacksonville Attorney Gene Nichols.

Nichols said Dunn's statements in court on Monday make a "stand your ground" defense a likely strategy, but not necessarily one that a jury will believe.

"There's no indication that Jordan or anyone else in that car had a gun, there's no indication that they were any threat to Mr. Dunn," said Nichols.

Investigators said there is no surveillance video to help with this case, making eyewitness testimony very important. Nichols said Dunn could possibly face a first degree murder charge in this case.

"Ms. Corey's office is absolutely going to consider filing the highest possible charge that she believes she can reach and that can easily end up with a sentence that could put Mr.. Dunn with the rest of his life behind bars," said Nichols.

 

[Geosurface]

Since they never even left the car the gun is absolutely necessary for his self defense defense isn't it?

I don't think the gun is absolutely necessary no. I think if they find something in the car that looks like it could pass for a gun barrel, or if the video shows something stick out of the window roughly that shape... that'd be sufficient to back him up on that claim.

 

[Robsasman]

'Merica... Fuck yeah. We kill you if you look at us funny.

Too bad this wasn't true. There would be a lot less funny looking assholes around.

 

[Geosurface]

Jordan Davis Davis

Really? Really?

That alone may justify shooting him.

Investigators said there is no surveillance video to help with this case

Ouch. That sucks. Sucks for us as curious gawkers, sucks for Dunn if it would've shown something stick out of the window. I think he's probably hosed. The fleeing, the lack of call to police... the lack of gun found... yea I think he's boned.

Yet, I suspect these kids probably did threaten him. He may not have done anything wrong, but I think he's going to get fucked regardless. His best hope may be the Zimmerman thing making Angela Corey's office implode.