Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[SheHateMe]

Well, they don't have pizza in prison I'm sure....so him ordering pizza when he got back to the hotel room seems perfectly valid to me.

 

[BD231]

Better watch out, somebody is out there eatin pizza waiting for you to say the wrong thing.

 

[Soundmanred]

Did this guy get a medal yet?

 

[QueBert]

He's not obligated to stay and put himself in more danger.

Nobody is saying he wasn't a dumbass for leaving after the thugs threatened him with a shotgun. They could have fired on him.

Seeing he was the one with the gun, and he was the one firing the weapon on the scene. I'm going to have to go with, yeah, he wasn't the one in any danger here...

I'll deal with 1,000,000 people with imaginary shot guns over 1 dude with an actual weapon.

 

[noobsrevenge]

I'd like to see evidence that blacks are more "thuggish" in the south.

Hell, Davis could be from up North for all we know, and just recently moved to Florida or some shit.

Evidence? It's called living in the south my whole life. You should try it and try NOT to say the same. Living in your bubble must be nice though.

I don't consider myself racist, going to the very good private school I went to, we had a few black people there, I was friends with them, no problems. Public school around here would be terrible, those are like 99% black and terrible. I would have probably got stabbed on more than one occasion going to public schools around here, black on black violence is rampant and racism against whites is too.

In my private school though the blacks were upper class and educated, in fact currently I have a very good friend that is black, but again my black friend is educated and has a good job. He also dresses and speaks like a normal human being

What he is not: He does not wear his pants sagging so low you can see his underwear. He does not wear white undershirts and wear obscene amounts of bling. He does not have a Chevy Impala with a 3 " lift and 24" rims and an Ice cream, ice cream, ice cream paint job.

I am perfectly capable of having friends with black people, like I said one of my better friends at the moment is black, he gets it too, I have seen him on more than one occasion just be speechless and shake his head, its all he can really do when we see or discuss some sad display of thuggery, which is pretty often.

Live in the south and try not to say the same. Until then, don't pretend like you have any insight when you are living in your bubble.

 

[noobsrevenge]

He made an assertion that the majority of the blacks from the south are thuggish. Either he can back it up with facts, or nobody will take him seriously.

The facts are, I live here and see it everyday, do you? I am not racist, so if anything when I say these things it should carry more weight to you, I know there are huge underlying social issues at work that I blame. Mainly public education in the south. AND the way the legal system, and jail wardens seem to have a huge racket going on, all profitting from locking people up, versus having social programs in place to giving people a fighting chance to make it in the real world doing the right things.

I really believe the jail wardens and police around here to be so corrupt that it is going to be near impossible to break this terrible cycle. They created a business capitalizing off this type of crap. There needs to be massive reform, like I said, to help under-privileged black youth have a fighting chance around here, a fighting chance to get educated and get a better life for themselves. I know their parents would never spend the money, if they even have it, to send them to good private schools like I went to, so they are stuck in the public schools that are absolutely piss-poor around here.

Do I still sound like some hard-core gun-loving redneck republican? No, in fact I am a democrat, one of the few to be found in the south (that aren't black, ha!) Maybe I still sound like a stereotypical redneck to you, I don't really care. But at least now you know the appropriate stance to take for future reference, of someone who IS more informed than you. You're very welcome for giving you some insight outside of your bubble.

Do I think wanna-be thugs like Treyvon Martin and this other thug blaring his loud music deserve to be shot for talking shit? Yes, if you want to act like a then you should be prepared to be treated like a thug, can't act like a thug then pretend you were oh so innocent after shit goes down.

But I also think its a damn shame there are not better programs in place allowing youth like this better chances to get out of the unfortunate cycle they are stuck in and make a better life for themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/26/opinion/blow-plantations-prisons-and-profits.html?_r=0

 

[QueBert]

The facts are, I live here and see it everyday, do you? I am not racist, so if anything when I say these things it should carry more weight to you, I know there are huge underlying social issues at work that I blame. Mainly public education in the south. AND the way the legal system, and jail wardens seem to have a huge racket going on, all profitting from locking people up, versus having social programs in place to giving people a fighting chance to make it in the real world doing the right things.

I really believe the jail wardens and police around here to be so corrupt that it is going to be near impossible to break this terrible cycle. They created a business capitalizing off this type of crap. There needs to be massive reform, like I said, to help under-privileged black youth have a fighting chance around here, a fighting chance to get educated and get a better life for themselves. I know their parents would never spend the money, if they even have it, to send them to good private schools like I went to, so they are stuck in the public schools that are absolutely piss-poor around here.

Do I still sound like some hard-core gun-loving redneck republican? No, in fact I am a democrat, one of the few to be found in the south (that aren't black, ha!) Maybe I still sound like a stereotypical redneck to you, I don't really care. But at least now you know the appropriate stance to take for future reference, of someone who IS more informed than you. You're very welcome for giving you some insight outside of your bubble.

Do I think wanna-be thugs like Treyvon Martin and this other thug blaring his loud music deserve to be shot for talking shit? Yes, if you want to act like a then you should be prepared to be treated like a thug, can't act like a thug then pretend you were oh so innocent after shit goes down.

But I also think its a damn shame there are not better programs in place allowing youth like this better chances to get out of the unfortunate cycle they are stuck in and make a better life for themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/26/opinion/blow-plantations-prisons-and-profits.html?_r=0

Answer me this, do non thugs who talk shit deserve to be shot too?

 

[umbrella39]

Yet another racist cowards ALT... Same Shit Different Racist

Edit: Seen your reply... Yep, so you knew I was talking about you without a direct quote and post between replies. 404 fooling anyone not found. HA HA HA HA

 

[Geosurface]

I had missed the fact that people linked to his police interview, I've only just now finished watching it.

I was leaning back toward his guilt VERY strongly after I heard that a witness said he said "you're not gonna talk to me like that" but after watching the interview, I'm back in the other direction a fair ways.

I know that personality, etc shouldn't matter... but the guy does not strike me AT ALL how I was imagining. Based on his mugshot I was envisioning this aggressive, abusive, drunkard asshole type.

It's not much to go on, of course, but his interview gave a very different impression. Mild mannered, nerdy, somewhat oblivious but honest guy is how he seemed.

I frankly think he's most likely innocent. I think those kids probably did threaten his life, but if no uninvolved witness heard the threats... and lord knows his friends will never admit to them... I think he's probably just purely boned.

It's a shame, because he does strike me as being innocent. Though getting out of his car and shooting more as the truck drove away was unnecessary and looks very bad, I think that was a heat of the moment thing, and it's hard to analyze behaviors with that much adrenaline behind them.

Tragic situation that could have been avoided by him not asking them to turn the music down, or by him backing his car out instead of shooting... but I think the most salient and important way it could have been avoided was for a truck full of idiots to have the self-control and have been civilized enough not to lose their shit because of a request to turn their music down, and yes I do believe to end up threatening a man's life.

A lot of people are going to say the same shit to me they already have in this thread "oh sure, the white guy is automatically innocent in your eyes and the black kids are automatically guilty!!!!" - not quite, not automatically, but I completely own up to valuing someone like Dunn, a productive member of society, a man with a pilot's license and a computer programmer... over a car full of felon or pre-felon thugs. Society is making a mistake by losing sight of that same distinction in value.

 

[They Live]

The facts are, I live here and see it everyday, do you? I am not racist, so if anything when I say these things it should carry more weight to you, I know there are huge underlying social issues at work that I blame. Mainly public education in the south. AND the way the legal system, and jail wardens seem to have a huge racket going on, all profitting from locking people up, versus having social programs in place to giving people a fighting chance to make it in the real world doing the right things.

I really believe the jail wardens and police around here to be so corrupt that it is going to be near impossible to break this terrible cycle. They created a business capitalizing off this type of crap. There needs to be massive reform, like I said, to help under-privileged black youth have a fighting chance around here, a fighting chance to get educated and get a better life for themselves. I know their parents would never spend the money, if they even have it, to send them to good private schools like I went to, so they are stuck in the public schools that are absolutely piss-poor around here.

Do I still sound like some hard-core gun-loving redneck republican? No, in fact I am a democrat, one of the few to be found in the south (that aren't black, ha!) Maybe I still sound like a stereotypical redneck to you, I don't really care. But at least now you know the appropriate stance to take for future reference, of someone who IS more informed than you. You're very welcome for giving you some insight outside of your bubble.

Do I think wanna-be thugs like Treyvon Martin and this other thug blaring his loud music deserve to be shot for talking shit? Yes, if you want to act like a then you should be prepared to be treated like a thug, can't act like a thug then pretend you were oh so innocent after shit goes down.

But I also think its a damn shame there are not better programs in place allowing youth like this better chances to get out of the unfortunate cycle they are stuck in and make a better life for themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/26/opinion/blow-plantations-prisons-and-profits.html?_r=0

Is anybody who lives in the South going to corroborate this guy's claims that the majority of the blacks in the south are thuggish?

I wonder what black people think of this claim, particularly any black person who lives in the South.

 

[soundforbjt]

Is anybody who lives in the South going to corroborate this guy's claims that the majority of the blacks in the south are thuggish?

I wonder what black people think of this claim, particularly any black person who lives in the South.

I lived in the south for over 15 years and he's full of you know what.

 

[soundforbjt]

I had missed the fact that people linked to his police interview, I've only just now finished watching it.

I was leaning back toward his guilt VERY strongly after I heard that a witness said he said "you're not gonna talk to me like that" but after watching the interview, I'm back in the other direction a fair ways.

I know that personality, etc shouldn't matter... but the guy does not strike me AT ALL how I was imagining. Based on his mugshot I was envisioning this aggressive, abusive, drunkard asshole type.

It's not much to go on, of course, but his interview gave a very different impression. Mild mannered, nerdy, somewhat oblivious but honest guy is how he seemed.

I frankly think he's most likely innocent. I think those kids probably did threaten his life, but if no uninvolved witness heard the threats... and lord knows his friends will never admit to them... I think he's probably just purely boned.

It's a shame, because he does strike me as being innocent. Though getting out of his car and shooting more as the truck drove away was unnecessary and looks very bad, I think that was a heat of the moment thing, and it's hard to analyze behaviors with that much adrenaline behind them.

Tragic situation that could have been avoided by him not asking them to turn the music down, or by him backing his car out instead of shooting... but I think the most salient and important way it could have been avoided was for a truck full of idiots to have the self-control and have been civilized enough not to lose their shit because of a request to turn their music down, and yes I do believe to end up threatening a man's life.

A lot of people are going to say the same shit to me they already have in this thread "oh sure, the white guy is automatically innocent in your eyes and the black kids are automatically guilty!!!!" - not quite, not automatically, but I completely own up to valuing someone like Dunn, a productive member of society, a man with a pilot's license and a computer programmer... over a car full of felon or pre-felon thugs. Society is making a mistake by losing sight of that same distinction in value.

Great, now all you have to do to prove his innocence is find the gun that no one saw but Dunn...

 

[noobsrevenge]

Yet another racist cowards ALT... Same Shit Different Racist

Come up with a better rebuttal to my posts than just "oooh somebodys alt is being racist, QQ"

I am not anybodys alt, and why don't you bother to respond to any of the points I raised, particularly the link that I posted that explains the underlying social or political issues that are the cause here. That is another point I raised that is most definitely not racist. Nice try labeling me though, ignoramus.

 

[Geosurface]

Great, now all you have to do to prove his innocence is find the gun that no one saw but Dunn...

If threats to kill him were made, that's enough with or without a gun IMO. I think the law agrees with me, though I'm not entirely sure.

Come up with a better rebuttal to my posts than just "oooh somebodys alt is being racist, QQ"

I am not anybodys alt, and why don't you bother to respond to any of the points I raised, particularly the link that I posted that explains the underlying social or political issues that are the cause here. That is another point I raised that is most definitely not racist. Nice try labeling me though, ignoramus.

umbrella accuses people of being alts as a matter of standard practice, and also likes to accuse people of misrepresenting their actual beliefs. He doesn't have the intellect to actually criticize your points or make any of his own, so he instead just tries to assert that you aren't who you say you are, or don't believe what you say you do... he makes very few posts that don't do some version of this. He makes no posts whatsoever which express his own opinion without it somehow being projected through the lens of attacking other posters. Most of his posts are ONLY that, just attacks on other posters.

I think I've only seen him ever actually respond to the topic itself, with no personal attacks at anyone, one time. One... time.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Great, now all you have to do to prove his innocence is find the gun that no one saw but Dunn...

Yep with zero evidence, the racist believes the white guy has to be innocent.

 

[Geosurface]

Yep with zero evidence, the racist believes the white guy has to be innocent.

I've been strongly negative toward Dunn and his actions when tidbits came out which pointed toward it being a rage-killing.

When other things make me question that, and when I got a chance to get a feel for the type of person he was by watching his interview, that feeling subsided.

What I believe is that the kids probably did go nuts at the request to turn the music down, and by all accounts including his friends', it was Jordan Davis who went the most nuts of all. I also believe that this probably included threats to Dunn's life.

Whether his reaction to that was reasonable or proportionate or legal is another matter, and I personally think the decision to get out of his car and continue firing at the back of a fleeing vehicle was excessive, and highly questionable. Likewise with his decision to not call police immediately once he was safe.

You're part of this brigade that likes to shut off your brain and just stamp "racist" on anyone who is actually realistic about the nature of crime and culture in the world today.

Do you honestly think I, or spidey, or spatial, or whoever else... would have the same dim view of that Durango full of kids if they were 4 black kids with completely squeaky clean records, who'd just come from a ren fair and were still in their period garb? Or chess club? Or basically the equivalent of 4 Steve Urkels in that vehicle?

What we've got is one confirmed felon and his 3 friends, blasting rap music, and by their own admission going nuts and cursing out this guy about being asked to turn their music down. For you to imply it somehow strains the imagination to consider that they also threatened him, exposes an absolutely breath-taking level of naivete about the world, on your part.

 

[epidemis]

Yep with zero evidence, the racist believes the white guy has to be innocent.

It's you who are racist. You're going from a sensational headline to conclude he shot him because he didn't like him. Because he is... a white middle aged man in the south? Get the frack off your lame horse

 

[They Live]

If threats to kill him were made, that's enough with or without a gun IMO. I think the law agrees with me, though I'm not entirely sure.

From my understanding, the threats were supposedly strictly from Jordan Davis. The "felon" in that car apparently did turn down the music when Dunn asked. Apparently it was Davis who got upset about it, and according to Dunn, threatened him, and pointed a shotgun or a "stick" at him.

Thus far, I haven't seen any evidence that corroborates that account. But if you believe Dunn strictly because Dunn is a white "mild mannered" business man, who simply had to have been threatened by Davis because Davis is a young black guy (I haven't seen any evidence of a prior criminal history), then more power to you. In reality, you are no different than a Sharpton or Jackson who sides with someone strictly based on race.

Using your logic here in fact, surely you believe Crystal Scott from Texas, who shot that white guy who she claimed was trying to open her car door. She appears to be someone mild mannered. Also, she's a single mother who worked for a bank. Surely if Dunn, a "productive member of society" is telling the truth in your eyes, then you also believe Scott right?

 

[shortylickens]

Yep with zero evidence, the racist believes the white guy has to be innocent.

Capital troll, chap!

:thumbsup:

 

[Geosurface]

In reality, you are no different than a Sharpton or Jackson who sides with someone strictly based on race.

Not quite as bad, because unlike them there actually ARE circumstances where I'd side with the black person, if the facts of the situation were clearly in their favor.

But I don't deny that I have a preference for my group just as they do for theirs. I think it's healthy to.

If I have a greater tendency to assume criminality, aggression, and violence on the part of black parties in a story like this, vs. the white parties, it isn't just pulled out of thin air. It's based on crime statistics and personal experience, and considerations like roughly 20% more testosterone, on average, in one population as compared to the other (as verified by the National Cancer Institute and US Government) - which I believe leads to a higher AVERAGE level of aggression in that group. And lower impulse control, which is also observed directly to be the case by anyone and everyone who isn't under a rock. Testosterone leads to deeper voice and higher aggression, both of which are observed. But I shouldn't get off on that tangent...

Suffice to say, once again, as I said before... if the facts of the situation are aligned correctly, I would absolutely side with the black party - but that is not the case here, as far as I can tell at this time. Though I do admit there are some things which look really bad on Dunn's side.

When you get right down to it, a middle aged nerdy, white computer programmer shooting up a car full of teens on a whim for no good reason, or because they turned their music back up, is not consistent with my experiences of those type of people.

A truck full of rap-blasting black teens, one of whom is a felon, losing their shit and threatening a man's safety and even his life (whether in a fashion which was just bluster or something sincere) is ENTIRELY consistent with my experiences of that subset of humanity.

That isn't a perfect guide to the truth, which is why I'm not decided on this case. But I think that sort of common sense, drawing on personal experience, and gut instinct does have a place in life.

 

[They Live]

A truck full of rap-blasting black teens, one of whom is a felon, losing their shit and threatening a man's safety and even his life (whether in a fashion which was just bluster or something sincere) is ENTIRELY consistent with my experiences of that subset of humanity.

As I said before, from my understanding of the evidence, the "felon" was the one who turned down the music when asked by Dunn. It was Davis who got upset, and according to Dunn, started threatening him, and flashed or pointed a shotgun or a stick at him. I have seen no evidence that Davis has a prior criminal history. Also, apparently no drugs were found in his system.

So to believe Dunn's account, you would have to believe that it pissed off Davis so much that Dunn told them to turn down the loud music, he then went absolutely insane and started threatening his life, and flashed or pointed a gun, with the intentions of hurting Dunn all because Dunn told them to lower the music.

However, you did assert that you are willing to believe the black party as guilty because of crime statistics, and blacks supposedly have more testosterone than whites, so at least you are being honest. Your position on this case makes more sense now.

 

[Geosurface]

However, you did assert that you are willing to believe the black party as guilty because of crime statistics, and blacks supposedly have more testosterone than whites, so at least you are being honest. Your position on this case makes more sense now.

I think it's entirely possible that turning down the music was just a temporary measure to hear what this cracka ass bitch was saying and verify that he really was crazy enough to be disrespecting them. I'm sorry if I'm having a hard time imagining the guy flashing a courteous smile and turning down the music only to suddenly face his friend taking an entirely different view of the situation. It's possible though, of course.

In the section of your post I quoted, something is notably absent. I indicated that those considerations made me MORE willing to believe those things, and consider them more likely, from a statistical standpoint. You presented it as though I'd said those considerations alone were entirely sufficient. All it would have taken, btw, is these kids being black nerds or something like that, to negate that completely. Rap-blasting, felonies, etc unfortunately feed into that process of "yep, I think I know the type" - and why shouldn't it? Every cop who's doing their job in this nation uses that sort of thought process. Every person making decisions about what part of town to drive through does too. Natural, normal, rational, smart.

As to the testosterone, no supposedly about it.

 

[Capt Caveman]

It's you who are racist. You're going from a sensational headline to conclude he shot him because he didn't like him. Because he is... a white middle aged man in the south? Get the frack off your lame horse

Please provide me some evidence or eyewitnesses that side with Dunn's story?

 

[They Live]

I think it's entirely possible that turning down the music was just a temporary measure to hear what this cracka ass bitch was saying and verify that he really was crazy enough to be disrespecting them. I'm sorry if I'm having a hard time imagining the guy flashing a courteous smile and turning down the music only to suddenly face his friend taking an entirely different view of the situation. It's possible though, of course.

In the section of your post I quoted, something is notably absent. I indicated that those considerations made me MORE willing to believe those things, and consider them more likely, from a statistical standpoint. You presented it as though I'd said those considerations alone were entirely sufficient. All it would have taken, btw, is these kids being black nerds or something like that, to negate that completely. Rap-blasting, felonies, etc unfortunately feed into that process of "yep, I think I know the type" - and why shouldn't it? Every cop who's doing their job in this nation uses that sort of thought process. Every person making decisions about what part of town to drive through does too. Natural, normal, rational, smart.

As to the testosterone, no supposedly about it.

So now you're accusing the dead kids and his friends of racism? Interesting.

Might as well accuse them of being black panthers next.

And people wonder why blacks often play the race card. In many instances, the race card is accurately played.

 

[They Live]

They should just make it a law that if you are a rap blasting black kid, and accused of a crime, or involved in some type of crime, that you should have to prove your innocence to the skeptics. That would make a good amount of people happy. Especially if you are black and from the south. Those are the most dangerous ones.