Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[Geosurface]

So now you're accusing the dead kids and his friends of racism? Interesting.

Racism toward whites, at least contextual racism toward whites in a situation like that, is almost ubiquitous among the kind of kids who fit that description.

All of these assumptions, I am completely prepared and willing (even eager) to overturn, given the right indications and evidence.

I think you may be swimming upstream a bit too hard against common sense, and common experience.

I think about 5 years of police work in Detroit should cure you of this.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Racism toward whites, at least contextual racism toward whites in a situation like that, is almost ubiquitous among the kind of kids who fit that description.

All of these assumptions, I am completely prepared and willing (even eager) to overturn, given the right indications and evidence.

I think you may be swimming upstream a bit too hard against common sense, and common experience.

I think about 5 years of police work in Detroit should cure you of this.

Thankfully, Dunn doesn't have a history of having confrontations with black teenagers playing thug music. Oh wait.....

 

[Geosurface]

Thankfully, Dunn doesn't have a history of having confrontations with black teenagers playing thug music. Oh wait.....

Answer me honestly, please... which of these two seems more likely?

1.) Middle aged white computer programmer with pilot's license just having left his son's wedding, waiting for girlfriend to return from inside gas station and then to be gone from that gas station to never return within mere minutes from now, decides to ruin his life and unload his gun he's had and never used since 1992, into a car full of stranger teenagers because they turned their music back up.

2.) A car full of 4 black teenagers, including one felon, get pissed that an old white guy asked them to turn their rap music down, and go too far with their indignation and attempts to intimidate him for doing so, and make what are either objectively convincing, or convincing to the guy at least... threats which put him in fear that they might really act on those threats.

I mean really. Has 50 years of white guilt and egalitarian horseshit really been this effective on people?

 

[SheHateMe]

I guess those witnesses that aren't corroborating Dunn's story are suffering from 50 years of white guilt and egalitarian horseshit too.

 

[nehalem256]

Answer me honestly, please... which of these two seems more likely?

1.) Middle aged white computer programmer with pilot's license just having left his son's wedding, waiting for girlfriend to return from inside gas station and then to be gone from that gas station to never return within mere minutes from now, decides to ruin his life and unload his gun he's had and never used since 1992, into a car full of stranger teenagers because they turned their music back up.

2.) A car full of 4 black teenagers, including one felon, get pissed that an old white guy asked them to turn their rap music down, and go too far with their indignation and attempts to intimidate him for doing so, and make what are either objectively convincing, or convincing to the guy at least... threats which put him in fear that they might really act on those threats.

I mean really. Has 50 years of white guilt and egalitarian horseshit really been this effective on people?

Well at least he had the sense not to call up 911 and tell them he was going to shoot up a car full of "coons" before doing so. Which is basically what some people believe Zimmerman did.

Option (1) sounds down right reasonable compared to that.

 

[Geosurface]

I guess those witnesses that aren't corroborating Dunn's story are suffering from 50 years of white guilt and egalitarian horseshit too.

Without a doubt.

In the sense that, once he was removed from the situation, and they're confronted with a car full of terrified kids whose friend is dead or dying, the likelihood that their sympathies will kick in toward those kids, rather than the unknown dude who just sped off... and who fired the bullets... is overwhelmingly in their favor.

His actions made it very easy to perceive him as the villain, absent more information. If the witnesses didn't really see or hear much before the gun shots, which is the relevant time to establishing whether his actions were justified (and why would they be paying close attention before the gunshots?) then it's really easy to decide the guy who sped off is the bad guy.

Enough to make someone possibly think they heard "you're not going to talk to me like that" when Dunn actually said "Are you guys talking about me? You're going to kill ME?" - certainly possible.

Or Dunn is lying, and he lost his cool, and went on a murderous rampage for no good reason. And now he's trying to cover for it and get away with it... that's possible too.

 

[QueBert]

Answer me honestly, please... which of these two seems more likely?

1.) Middle aged white computer programmer with pilot's license just having left his son's wedding, waiting for girlfriend to return from inside gas station and then to be gone from that gas station to never return within mere minutes from now, decides to ruin his life and unload his gun he's had and never used since 1992, into a car full of stranger teenagers because they turned their music back up.

2.) A car full of 4 black teenagers, including one felon, get pissed that an old white guy asked them to turn their rap music down, and go too far with their indignation and attempts to intimidate him for doing so, and make what are either objectively convincing, or convincing to the guy at least... threats which put him in fear that they might really act on those threats.

I mean really. Has 50 years of white guilt and egalitarian horseshit really been this effective on people?

not that you care, but there's zero history of violence from the car full of "black thugs" either. And no, stealing car stereos doesn't make a person violent.

 

[Geosurface]

not that you care, but there's zero history of violence from the car full of "black thugs" either. And no, stealing car stereos doesn't make a person violent.

I care. It means that up to that night, both sides were on equal footing and we don't consider past history of violence for either of them, because it sounds like there isn't any.

Which leaves us still looking at the things I mentioned.

 

[QueBert]

I care. It means that up to that night, both sides were on equal footing and we don't consider past history of violence for either of them, because it sounds like there isn't any.

Which leaves us still looking at the things I mentioned.

There's only proof 1 of them had a gun that night, until this mythical shotgun that only the shooter saw is produced, it's not close to equal footing.

 

[Geosurface]

There's only proof 1 of them had a gun that night, until this mythical shotgun that only the shooter saw is produced, it's not close to equal footing.

Shotgun or no shotgun, he describes significant, credible threats to his person. I buy that these were made. It's the only thing that makes him using his firearm make sense.

 

[QueBert]

Shotgun or no shotgun, he describes significant, credible threats to his person. I buy that these were made. It's the only thing that makes him using his firearm make sense.

How are his claims credible? It's hearsay at best, there's not even a single person to back up what he says. He also loses credibility because of the fact he claims there was a shotgun, which has yet to be found. Also also a person in his situation who's facing potential life in prion has more than a little reason to not be honest if it could save their ass. I guess we have a different d definition of what credible means *shrug*

 

[Schmide]

He lost all credibility when he ordered a pizza dude.

 

[Geosurface]

How are his claims credible? It's hearsay at best, there's not even a single person to back up what he says. He also loses credibility because of the fact he claims there was a shotgun, which has yet to be found. Also also a person in his situation who's facing potential life in prion has more than a little reason to not be honest if it could save their ass. I guess we have a different d definition of what credible means *shrug*

I described the threats as credible, as in... if the threats he describes took place, they were legitimately something which would be a credible threat to his life. Given them having numerical advantage and potentially a weapon, and their proximity to him.

As for whether his claim that the threats took place is credible or not? It's certainly believable, to me and anyone else who isn't burying their head in the sand about the nature of the world.

I know people absolutely hate these stereotypes, but these stereotypes are necessary in some cities, or parts of cities, or parts of the country, to continue living.

It is typically people who are fortunate enough to not have direct contact with these realities, who pretend they aren't realities.

He lost all credibility when he ordered a pizza dude.

Are you joking?

Because seriously, I don't see how ordering a pizza indicates anything... he had to eat dinner, and so did his girlfriend. I'd consider it more odd if they went out to a nice restaurant after that.

 

[Schmide]

Are you joking?

Because seriously, I don't see how ordering a pizza indicates anything... he had to eat dinner, and so did his girlfriend. I'd consider it more odd if they went out to a nice restaurant after that.

Absolutely not joking. Only a psychopath can kill someone then go about their day as if nothing happened. No remorse what so ever.

 

[Geosurface]

Absolutely not joking. Only a psychopath can kill someone then go about their day as if nothing happened. No remorse what so ever.

Absurd.

First of all you have to keep in mind that, if his story is true, he believed he'd acted in self-defense. So he didn't think he had anything to feel bad about.

Secondly, depending on when he ordered the pizza, we don't know if he'd seen anything on the news yet indicating that someone had died.

Btw, do we know it was him who called the pizza place, vs. his gf doing so?

Thirdly... a lot of people don't seem to understand just how strange it can be to be in that situation, if it's completely foreign to you you imagine it to be some thing that completely makes the universe hit the pause button... but everyone reacts differently in crazy situations, and a lot of people, probably MOST people, still go on about doing normal things... if they have to pee, they pee, if they are hungry, they eat.

You think he should have curled up in the fetal position on the hotel bed and wept? Or what?

Until you're in a situation like that, you just can't say how you'll act.

The adrenaline, the over-thinking of everything, questioning yourself and your actions, processing what happened... they can leave you stunned, and it can trigger your mind to go on a sort of auto-pilot and do what's familiar.

 

[Schmide]

Seriously? His excuse for not calling the police is he thought he could do so from his home town? He was planning on driving 200mi before doing so? Dude was running because he knew he was guilty.

 

[Geosurface]

Seriously? His excuse for not calling the police is he thought he could do so from his home town? He was planning on driving 200mi before doing so? Dude was running because he knew he was guilty.

I do agree that not calling cops immediately was super shady.

 

[SheHateMe]

In the sense that, once he was removed from the situation, and they're confronted with a car full of terrified kids whose friend is dead or dying, the likelihood that their sympathies will kick in toward those kids, rather than the unknown dude who just sped off... and who fired the bullets... is overwhelmingly in their favor.

His actions made it very easy to perceive him as the villain, absent more information. If the witnesses didn't really see or hear much before the gun shots, which is the relevant time to establishing whether his actions were justified (and why would they be paying close attention before the gunshots?) then it's really easy to decide the guy who sped off is the bad guy.

Enough to make someone possibly think they heard "you're not going to talk to me like that" when Dunn actually said "Are you guys talking about me? You're going to kill ME?" - certainly possible.

So again, the witnesses are lying for the black kids.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Answer me honestly, please... which of these two seems more likely?

1.) Middle aged white computer programmer with pilot's license just having left his son's wedding, waiting for girlfriend to return from inside gas station and then to be gone from that gas station to never return within mere minutes from now, decides to ruin his life and unload his gun he's had and never used since 1992, into a car full of stranger teenagers because they turned their music back up.

2.) A car full of 4 black teenagers, including one felon, get pissed that an old white guy asked them to turn their rap music down, and go too far with their indignation and attempts to intimidate him for doing so, and make what are either objectively convincing, or convincing to the guy at least... threats which put him in fear that they might really act on those threats.

I mean really. Has 50 years of white guilt and egalitarian horseshit really been this effective on people?

Your bigot ass forgot.

Dunn has anger issues and has a history of confrontations with black teenagers over rape music as stated by his GF.

Dunn has a DUI conviction.

Dunn was drinking at the wedding which he had just left and his gf was picking up additional alcohol.

If Dunn was scared that these thugs were part of a gang, why would he even say anything?

Why run? Why not call the cops or a lawyer after he learned in the morning that he had killed someone?

You and others seem to think Dunn was acting irrational by his actions after the shooting yet these thugs while being shot at knew to drive to a nearby parking lot while dozens of witnesses and a police officer watching, dispose of a firearm then drive back to the scene of the crime.

Dunn isn't thinking straight. Yet, these teenage thugs are cool, calm and collected.

 

[maziwanka]

wow. this thread is still going on?

 

[stlc8tr]

wow. this thread is still going on?

There was a story in Rolling Stone about this. I glanced at it and wonder if how many Dunn defenders there would be at AT. I figured the usual suspects would be at it, saying that Dunn was just standing his ground when he gunned down Jordan.

I certainly wasn't disappointed when I checked the thread...

 

[Geosurface]

Your bigot ass forgot.

Dunn has anger issues and has a history of confrontations with black teenagers over rape music as stated by his GF.

Dunn has a DUI conviction.

Dunn was drinking at the wedding which he had just left and his gf was picking up additional alcohol.

If Dunn was scared that these thugs were part of a gang, why would he even say anything?

Why run? Why not call the cops or a lawyer after he learned in the morning that he had killed someone?

You and others seem to think Dunn was acting irrational by his actions after the shooting yet these thugs while being shot at knew to drive to a nearby parking lot while dozens of witnesses and a police officer watching, dispose of a firearm then drive back to the scene of the crime.

Dunn isn't thinking straight. Yet, these teenage thugs are cool, calm and collected.

Those are all good points, honestly.

 

[soundforbjt]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Du...ning/-/1637132/19783492/-/lbbv7t/-/index.html

Dunn's girlfriend police interview.

 

[classy]

I've been strongly negative toward Dunn and his actions when tidbits came out which pointed toward it being a rage-killing.

When other things make me question that, and when I got a chance to get a feel for the type of person he was by watching his interview, that feeling subsided.

What I believe is that the kids probably did go nuts at the request to turn the music down, and by all accounts including his friends', it was Jordan Davis who went the most nuts of all. I also believe that this probably included threats to Dunn's life.

Whether his reaction to that was reasonable or proportionate or legal is another matter, and I personally think the decision to get out of his car and continue firing at the back of a fleeing vehicle was excessive, and highly questionable. Likewise with his decision to not call police immediately once he was safe.

You're part of this brigade that likes to shut off your brain and just stamp "racist" on anyone who is actually realistic about the nature of crime and culture in the world today.

Do you honestly think I, or spidey, or spatial, or whoever else... would have the same dim view of that Durango full of kids if they were 4 black kids with completely squeaky clean records, who'd just come from a ren fair and were still in their period garb? Or chess club? Or basically the equivalent of 4 Steve Urkels in that vehicle?

What we've got is one confirmed felon and his 3 friends, blasting rap music, and by their own admission going nuts and cursing out this guy about being asked to turn their music down. For you to imply it somehow strains the imagination to consider that they also threatened him, exposes an absolutely breath-taking level of naivete about the world, on your part.

I am not suprised that the same lackeys from the GZ thread are here. Its amazing GZ committed a felony against a cop and pleaded out. But you have your lips plaster on his left butt cheek and he is innocent. But here we have another person, who probably didn't have money to plead out, get shot at but some pos, but lets now bring up the felon's misdeeds.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Was it verified that the felon thug crew left the gas station, circled the parking lot, then returned to the scene of the crime?