[Techsoda] "Anandtech forums on trial: The corruption runs deep."

[Greenman]

My biggest complaint is that the moderators are not paid, I feel as though that's the source of most of the issues. You ask people to do this for free and you will get personal opinions, favoritism (and nepotism...), and bias included in the moderation. I don't fault the moderators, it's just a fact of life when someone is investing so much of their time for free.

I understand that anand doesn't care much about the forums, but he seems to have no problem cashing those ad revenue checks every month.


I also think it's incredibly disappointing that he does not seem to value what the forums provide to the online society in general. About half the time I'm googling for info on something AT forums are in the top 10 results. Like it or not, "politics" or not, this place is a major source of info and opinions nowadays.

The best thing that could happen to these forums is the moderators become paid, with some sort of CEO-type position at the helm who functions with complete transparency.

Honestly I think some sort of vote with 2 year terms would be the best way to handle it. Even the crazies recognize our "moral leaders" around here.

Who's going to pay them? Do you think Anand is going to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for something that he can get done for free? Would you be willing to pay $100 a month for use of this forum?
Volunteers are free and plentiful, they can quit at any time the job becomes to much for them, or they can just add more volunteers.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Who's going to pay them? Do you think Anand is going to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for something that he can get done for free? Would you be willing to pay $100 a month for use of this forum?
Volunteers are free and plentiful, they can quit at any time the job becomes to much for them, or they can just add more volunteers.

Anand should pay them. This site is one of the top forums on the internet, and has been for years. It is ad-supported and heavily trafficked.

I have no doubt that anand is making a healthy profit off of these people who are donating their time to keep things in line.

For what it's worth I've emailed anand numerous times over the years about this and have never gotten a response.


This is a huge part of why factions are splitting off into their own forums. It's a travesty, really.

And it would not take massive amounts of $$ to pay these guys to keep an eye on things.



Edit: And all that being said, I've made my point. This topic of unpaid mods is a sensitive one, and it is for some reason frowned upon to bring it up.

 

[RossMAN]

Lesson : don't be an asshole and you can get along just fine. People take their allegiances with tech companies way too damned SRS.

This.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

My observations:

Moderation is seen as the classic catch 22 "arbitrary rules created in order to justify and conceal their own abuse of power"

But no one I have worked with here is trying to abuse power that I have seen. And they never act unilaterally or as a leader and sycophants. There are often spirited discussions over a given issue. And regardless of action taken or not taken "you are damned if you do, damned if you don't." Consequently it is a thankless job. The only reward is helping a virtual community you care enough about to want to help improve.

So, while accusations and allegations fly, and some demand heads must roll = it is normal. I used to think there was a better way, then I got to see behind the curtain and discovered just how complex a task it is policing these forums. And trying to make it a place the vast majority of users can enjoy and learn from.

 

[jessieqwert]

Read the rest of the techsoda headlines. All clickbait

 

[cronos]

Yeah that all went down the toilet with the mod forum getting opened up, PMs being read, etc etc etc. Everyone makes mistakes, don't get me wrong, but that was a pretty big mistake from a PR perspective.

Umm.. no. I was referring to the original time when it was just one 'Anandtech Moderator' account that was moderating the whole forums, and it could be any one of the moderators doing it.

It's not any more transparent, we just know who the mods are.

Like I said it depends on what your interpretation of the word 'transparent' is. To me, if it's something we're not allowed to know before, and now we are given the privilege to, it is more transparent than before.

Here is an example: prior to the decision to open up the Moderator's names, the article like in the OP could never be written, as it is impossible for a user to know which one(s) of the moderators they were talking to. It's pretty clear to me that it is now more transparent than before.

The entire point of moderator discussions is to keep the general membership from being involved in the forum moderation.
All forums are run as a dictatorship, the person at the top may be fair and forgiving, or he might be a power crazed asshole, but he's there. He's the guy who pays the bills, he's the guy who sets the tone and direction of the forum he owns. In the case of Anandtech, he's decided that the general membership will have no open discussion of moderator action, that there will be no transparency and that moderator actions won't be publicly questioned. That's the owners right, those are rules laid down by the fellow who provides this venue and we accept them or we're shown the door.

And I'm fine with it. And I'm sure most everyone here knows about this too. So what's the problem?

 

[BudAshes]

Anand should pay them. This site is one of the top forums on the internet, and has been for years. It is ad-supported and heavily trafficked.

I have no doubt that anand is making a healthy profit off of these people who are donating their time to keep things in line.

For what it's worth I've emailed anand numerous times over the years about this and have never gotten a response.


This is a huge part of why factions are splitting off into their own forums. It's a travesty, really.

And it would not take massive amounts of $$ to pay these guys to keep an eye on things.



Edit: And all that being said, I've made my point. This topic of unpaid mods is a sensitive one, and it is for some reason frowned upon to bring it up.

Not a whole lot of money? I don't think you understand, he would be adding dozens of employees to his business and would then be taking all the cost and risks associated with that. He would then have to take an active interest in what was said on the forums, and could potentially be open to legal action from moderators or the things the moderators said due to them being his employees.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I'm talking paying them as contract or consultants. Maybe $6k per year flat rate.

Of course depending on his state that introduces taxes and other liabilities.


How much do you think these forums net on ad revenue? Keep in mind it's 50% of the traffic as a whole from anandtech.com.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Make it a gift instead of a salary. Have a way that members can rate mods and based on ratings at the end of the year they get sent a gift card or something. Like a 5k gift card for Newegg, or other retailer of choice. They would only get this gift if the ratings are above a certain threshold though.

I guess the issue with that is people could give bad ratings because of personal feelings and not because of actual performance, so it would need to be based on more than just that.

 

[HeXen]

Seems this one little site caused quite a stir amongst some members. Don't forget to check the thread on Anandtech's corruption there too. Pretty funny, dunno why anyone got butthurt, there are tons of other tech forums to join ya know.
This quote is my fav. To see former mods here run and cry..well to see anyone do that is...sigh, just grow up.

As a former Admin and Moderator of Anandtech Forums and member there since 1998 I have a unique perspective on the moderation and staff. The corruption you speak of almost certainly comes from the top and by that I mean *blah, blah, blah.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Make it a gift instead of a salary. Have a way that members can rate mods and based on ratings at the end of the year they get sent a gift card or something. Like a 5k gift card for Newegg, or other retailer of choice. They would only get this gift if the ratings are above a certain threshold though.

I guess the issue with that is people could give bad ratings because of personal feelings and not because of actual performance, so it would need to be based on more than just that.

While you're on a 'mod shift' and getting paid to keep watch you should not be posting personal opinions. It's ok to have a personality, make short statements when infracting or whatnot, but all personal opinions should only be posted when off the clock (and labelled as such).

In my opinion that's the problem with the current system working long-term and still being seen as fair and unbiased.. When someone is donating their time, it's not required or expected to be all that professional. That's just the way the world works.

And when you have a forum that is often being listed in the top 10 search results for general info when searching on google maybe it's time to take a different look at way things are run.

And all of this being said, I think the open feeling and lots of allowance on moderation is better now than it has been in a long time. It was a major issue quite some time ago, but the last year or so hasn't been that bad.

But to have a somewhat public 'president' is something that would benefit this place. I would expect their fee to be less than other moderators who may spend more time here.

 

[_Rick_]

But to have a somewhat public 'president' is something that would benefit this place. I would expect their fee to be less than other moderators who may spend more time here.

But there is a president? And we benefit greatly from her existence!

 

[Away]

But there is a president? And we benefit greatly from her existence!

Ruby! :wub:

 

[DigDog]

What he wanted to prove:
As an AMD fan you will get banned!

What he proved:
He can get banned. He is an AMD fan.

He did not prove the causal relationship of the two.

He didn't follow the scientific method, and certainly failed at using statistics to support his claim. As such, we can consider his work nothing but a weak, biased indicator of occasional mis-moderation, which apparently gets corrected -- usually.

exactly. also since there are plenty AMD lovers on that forum and for some weird reason, they aren't getting banned.

Read the rest of the techsoda headlines. All clickbait

big time.
"AMD Launches product!! NVidia dead!"
"is Intel bad?"
"ATI - best or greatest?"

 

[BikeJunkie]

Perk does a fantastic job

You mean the drunk moderator? The guy who brags about drinking and driving and then bans people for taking him to task?

Yes. Totally fantastic.

 

[Greenman]

Seems this one little site caused quite a stir amongst some members. Don't forget to check the thread on Anandtech's corruption there too. Pretty funny, dunno why anyone got butthurt, there are tons of other tech forums to join ya know.
This quote is my fav. To see former mods here run and cry..well to see anyone do that is...sigh, just grow up.

It's pretty normal for people to be angry if they feel they've been treated unfairly. There were a few folks who got dumped in the last purge that were pretty upset about it.
Beyond this one thread, I don't see that article having any impact what so ever. The bottom line is, no one cares.

 

[Possessed Freak]

You mean the drunk moderator? The guy who brags about drinking and driving and then bans people for taking him to task?

Yes. Totally fantastic.

The *only* issue I have with the moderatorship on this site is their inconsistency on dealing with illegal matters. They close piracy stuff quickly. They allow drug threads to roam freely though. There is a thread on the first page with users going 160mph+ on the road. Per their own forum rules, topics of this kind should be closed immediately.

If I was stupid enough to do stuff illegally, I surely won't post about it publicly. Nor would I even try to defend my illegal activity with "everyone does it" or it was a victimless crime. Lots of crap gets a free pass, some users get a free pass.

 

[surfsatwerk]

You mean the drunk moderator? The guy who brags about drinking and driving and then bans people for taking him to task?

Yes. Totally fantastic.

Was that sarcasm? I totally missed it.

 

[norseamd]

They close piracy stuff quickly. They allow drug threads to roam freely though. There is a thread on the first page with users going 160mph+ on the road. Per their own forum rules, topics of this kind should be closed immediately.

not really a problem

this is a tech site. that is why they might close piracy thread so fast

also drugs are not illegal everywhere

 

[CZroe]

not really a problem

this is a tech site. that is why they might close piracy thread so fast

also drugs are not illegal everywhere

It's also liability. They were sued over coupon codes so for many years they were not allowed in Hot Deals (nor were mentions of a certain competing deal forum). We couldn't even mention Bittorrent for a while thanks to Bittorrent piracy they had to put a stop to in a hidden mod forum (at least that's how a mod explained it to me).

 

[Possessed Freak]

also drugs are not illegal everywhere

Does not matter. Same argument could be made for any activity.

 

[norseamd]

Does not matter. Same argument could be made for any activity.

some guys start talking about robbing 25 banks or smuggling 35 kilos of cocaine then it might be a concern.

personal drug use is not a felony and it is also a topic that is under heavy discussion.

so they are not the same in any way

 

[CZroe]

The *only* issue I have with the moderatorship on this site is their inconsistency on dealing with illegal matters. They close piracy stuff quickly. They allow drug threads to roam freely though. There is a thread on the first page with users going 160mph+ on the road. Per their own forum rules, topics of this kind should be closed immediately.

If I was stupid enough to do stuff illegally, I surely won't post about it publicly. Nor would I even try to defend my illegal activity with "everyone does it" or it was a victimless crime. Lots of crap gets a free pass, some users get a free pass.

If you're ralking about Hyabusa Rider, I'm pretty sure he said it was a closed course. I would be upset if a moderator assumed it wasn't and locked the thread or handed out infractions without checking such details.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

+1, it's all about liability. Piracy causes a direct liability. Drug/drinking/whatever is an indirect liability. At worst they get subpeona'd for some IP address. Very different from getting dragged into court over hosting or precipitating piracy.


I think the only real administration issue is the perception of "personal" stuff going on behind the scenes which drastically affects the community. The issues with PMs being read was a major violation of community trust. The "overlord" type phrasing is very 1992 and too personal. There is a certain level of distrust between the members and the moderation staff that is unhealthy to the community.

But again, it's all very understandable considering they are volunteers.

I read most of that article over the weekend and it is 99% irrelevant butthurt whining. But there are some issues here that should and can be fixed, but it would require anand to take this place seriously.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Not sure why but for some reason i didn't bother to read the article but hot damn, the comments are out of this world!LOL