techPowerUP! goofs and posts HD2900XT review early?

[BFG10K]

Sorry, but I don't see any significant difference between those screenshots and I certainly don't see any excessive blurring. In fact if you look at the arctic picture on the bottom right roof the GTX isn't quite as defined as the 2900 XT.

There might be marginal blurring but if you ran the 8800 GTX at 8xS you'd get the same thing.

Well, the instant I saw that the new AA modes were sharing neighbouring pixel data I knew exactly what the outcome was going to be.

Exactly the same outcome as super-sampling - marginal blurring in exchange for better texture & shader quality.

Your comments are amusing after your history of extolling the virtues of super-sampling on nVidia cards.

Now stop trolling, it really is pathetic.

 

[BFG10K]

(ChrisRay)I think people may end up finding that the blur is not just a compression thing.

Yeah, they find the same thing with nVidia's xS modes too. What's your point Chris?

Also if you're so unhappy about ATi's CFAA modes then just use their 8xMSAA which will be exactly the same as nVidia's 8xQ.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

(ChrisRay)I think people may end up finding that the blur is not just a compression thing.

Yeah, they find the same thing with nVidia's xS modes too. What's your point Chris?

Also if you're so unhappy about ATi's CFAA modes then just use their 8xMSAA which will be exactly the same as nVidia's 8xQ.

nvidia's XS modes cause blurring?!?

You haven't been into Orton's hallucinogen stash have you BFG10K?

 

[BFG10K]

nvidia's XS modes cause blurring?!?

Of course they do. You do understand how super-sampling works, right?

Or are you show us how to count coloured rings again?

You haven't been into Orton's hallucinogen stash have you BFG10K?

No, you got there before I had a chance.

 

[Raider1284]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Here are some 3dmark06 comparison pics that show ATi 'Blur-O-Vision?' AA hard at work

R600 - Deep Freeze
G80 - Deep Freeze

R600 - Canyon Flight
G80 - Canyon Flight

what am i missing here, I cant tell a difference at all between these shots. Severe loss of detail on the skin? where? I'm switching back and forth constantly and I am not seeing a difference.

 

[BFG10K]

what am i missing here,

Absolutely nothing because there's nothing to miss. There is marginal blurring but again you'd see that same thing if you ran the nVidia card under an xS mode.

What you're seeing is nVidia trolls crawling from under their bridges and making loud noises.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

nvidia's XS modes cause blurring?!?

Of course they do. You do understand how super-sampling works, right?

Or are you show us how to count coloured rings again?

You haven't been into Orton's hallucinogen stash have you BFG10K?

No, you got there before I had a chance.

with SSAA, extra data over and above what is already present gets generated and used, thus *increasing* overall quality.

With CFAA, no extra data is generated and pixels share existing neighbour values, thus * lowering* overall quality.

Completely and utterly different.

Please feel free to purchase an R600 though BFG10K -- you definitely *WON't* be missed on the nvidia side of 3d graphics.

 

[BFG10K]

with SSAA, extra data over and above what is already present gets generated and used, thus *increasing* overall quality.

Not always; it depends on how it's done. In the case of rendering to a higher image the extra data is still sampled back down so the image experiences slight blurring. If it didn't you wouldn't have super-sampling.

With CFAA, no extra data is generated and pixels share existing neighbour values, thus * lowering* overall quality.

You would know this how? And you mean like SLI AA?

Completely and utterly different.

Not really.

Please feel free to purchase an R600 though BFG10K -- you definitely *WON't* be missed on the nvidia side of 3d graphics.

Feel free to stop posting here - you certainly *WON'T* be missed.

 

[Gstanfor]

In the case of rendering to a higher image the extra data is still sampled back down so the image experiences slight blurring

It's a *good* "blur" though since the data is still higher quality (it represents a more accurate set of samples) than if you merely rendered at the specified resolution.

 

[Gstanfor]

For those still keen to lay all blame at the feet of the jpeg compression (and yes, different jpeg codecs can have differing quality, not to mention he probably didn't disable color subsampling), BECCO (the R600 owner) is planning on posting .BMP versions of the images.

Text

(Geeforcer) Could you by any chance post another 3Dmark 8X AA screen shot, only saved using the highest quality settings? The high compression levels in the previous two shots screw up IQ.

Text

(BCCO) OK, I'll post original 3DMark IQ in BMP format. I know what u mean.
Later.

And for apoppin, who doesn't trust this home user to tell the truth, here is a fun filled snippet to ponder in light of your distrust:

... thanks nomore .. I saw your posts in TeamAti forum that made me to become more fanATIc ...

 

[BFG10K]

It's a *good* blurring though since the data is still higher quality than if you merely rendered at the specified resolution.

Right, just like CFAA. But you weren't talking about overall IQ, you were taking issue with blurring.

If super-sampling didn't slightly blur the internals of the image then it would just be MSAA.

And again 8xSLI AA doesn't render the image higher either, it samples from the same image with a slight offset.

 

[Gstanfor]

It is *NOT* like CFAA! SSAA uses more unique samples, CFAA uses less. It "borrows" "samples" from non related data.

I'm not talking about SLI AA, but since you are so keen to bring it up, each image is a 4x or 8xS render and each card does the render on a different offset, yielding more unique samples to work with.

nvidia's combined AA (*xS modes) and SLI AA originated on Quadro workstations for professional use and were migrated downward for consumer usage. I'll all but guarantee professionals won't touch CFAA with a 50,000 foot barge-pole.

 

[BFG10K]

It is *NOT* like CFAA! SSAA uses more unique samples, CFAA uses less.

How does it use less? When a pixel is resolved under CFAA it uses more samples than without AA.

I'm not talking about SLI AA, but since you are so keen to bring it up, each image is an 8xS or 15xS render and each card does the render on a different offset, yielding more unique samples to work with.

This is false. 8xSLI for example has no xS component.

In any case why do you think nVidia kept the offset so close? Why do you think the offset is even closer under 16xSLI than it is 8xSLI?

Because it would blur the image more, that's why.

You really don't even understand the basics of super-sampling, do you?

 

[Gstanfor]

How does it use less? When a pixel is resolved under CFAA it uses more samples than without AA

But they are not samples unique to that pixel which is why it results blurring and colors becoming washed out (go read the B3D thread, back around where I found the HL2 artifact image if you don't believe me).

SLI 16x AA is 8xS based, SLI 32x AA is 16xS. I was wrong about SLi 8x AA.
Text

I've nothing further to say to you. Go live in your ridiculous fantasy land of blurred SSAA and don't bother the rest of us.

 

[BFG10K]

But they are not samples unique to that pixel which is why it results blurring and colors becoming washed out (go read the B3D thread,

Nothing is washed out. There is certainly some slight blurring (nobody was denying that) but based on the screenshots thusfar it's marginal at best, just like nVidia's xS modes.

SLI 16x AA is 8xS based, SLI 32x AA is 16xS. I was wrong about SLi 8x AA.

I know exactly how SLI AA works so don't waste your time trying to educate me.

Why don't you answer the question as to why an increase in SLI AA samples always results in said samples getting closer?

Since you still have difficulty understanding this simple concept perhaps some screenshots are in order:

4xAA.
8x SLI AA.
8xS AA.

You can clearly see the impact 8xS makes on the smoke trails and also on the text in the silver HUD at the bottom.

Additionally 8xSLI's smoke looks like 4xAA and the text has less blurring because the texture samples are very close together in that mode (and hence not as effective as 8xS).

I've nothing further to say to you.

One can only hope.

Go live in your ridiculous fantasy land of blurred SSAA and don't bother the rest of us.

But...but...the yellow ring has the best AF!!!! :roll:

 

[Gstanfor]

Some of us don't need to guess or refer to reviews to see what the results might be...

Driver is FW165.01

4x MSAA
8xS combined AA
16xS combined AA
8x SLI AA (G71)
16x SLI AA (G71)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

In the case of rendering to a higher image the extra data is still sampled back down so the image experiences slight blurring

It's a *good* "blur" though since the data is still higher quality (it represents a more accurate set of samples) than if you merely rendered at the specified resolution.

we "get it" it's a "good blur" with an nvidia GPU

and a "bad blur" with an AMD one

you are pretty silly
:roll:


i am not basing IQ or buying decisions on one set of 4 very *doubtful* pix
:thumbsdown:

 

[Gstanfor]

The R600 Users Guide has been made available.

Here is an interesting excerpt given how much the fanatics have loved to lay into nvidia for only allowing one display to be active when SLI is activated in a system

Text

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
The R600 Users Guide has been made available.

Here is an interesting excerpt given how much the fanatics have loved to lay into nvidia for only allowing one display to be active when SLI is activated in a system

Text

wait ... *you* are a fanatic ...

--just an nvidia fanatic
{sounds like a song title :music:}

if you are so *sure* the HD2900xt is a FLOP,
why are you running around trying to *prove something* NOW ... ?

i think you are really worried that a $400 card can compete with a much more expensive one

some of us aren't so keen on spending $650 for a great card with crap drivers


i want to see the *results* of the reviews before i consider putting up with GTX in XP

my next buying decision is a big one ... it's between a SLI or Xfire MB ... and the decision is coming 'right up' ... so i AM interested

 

[BlizzardOne]

what's so interesting about it?

 

[Gstanfor]

i think you are really worried that a $400 card can compete with a much more expensive one

From nvidia's latest earnings transcript call (Jen Hsun Huang, naturally):

We have a pretty good understanding of what our 600 is, and at the moment we have three products in the Enthusiast segment, the GeForce 8800 Ultra, GTX and GTS. GTS is the most affordable version of our Enthusiast product and that's likely the product that the R600 will be positioned against.

We've sold as you know several hundred thousand of those already and our momentum is very, very high. And my expectation is that it will continue to be high.

But more importantly, in addition to our position in the Enthusiast market, we are ramping really hard, the rest of the performance segment, which starts with GeForce 8600 and below that is 8500 and below that is 8300. So, my expectations that we are planning far ahead with respect to our time-to-market and most importantly, the architecture advantage that we have on GeForce 8 over what we know about the R600. So, we are cautious, obviously, with respect to competition. This is a company that knows how to compete, but our expectations are that we'll be quite successful.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BlizzardOne


what's so interesting about it?

It isn't to most - unless they have bashed nvidia in the past over the same limitation in SLI. Got to love how backfire keeps looking more and more like SLI as time goes on. Imitation really IS the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

i think you are really worried that a $400 card can compete with a much more expensive one

From nvidia's latest earnings transcript call (Jen Hsun Huang, naturally):

We have a pretty good understanding of what our 600 is, and at the moment we have three products in the Enthusiast segment, the GeForce 8800 Ultra, GTX and GTS. GTS is the most affordable version of our Enthusiast product and that's likely the product that the R600 will be positioned against.

We've sold as you know several hundred thousand of those already and our momentum is very, very high. And my expectation is that it will continue to be high.

But more importantly, in addition to our position in the Enthusiast market, we are ramping really hard, the rest of the performance segment, which starts with GeForce 8600 and below that is 8500 and below that is 8300. So, my expectations that we are planning far ahead with respect to our time-to-market and most importantly, the architecture advantage that we have on GeForce 8 over what we know about the R600. So, we are cautious, obviously, with respect to competition. This is a company that knows how to compete, but our expectations are that we'll be quite successful.

i see ...

you invoke ... the Voice of God again ...





:roll:

let me *translate* your deity's Words

[i am capable of reading nvidia hieroglyphics]

*we are WORRIED ... very worried ... but are hoping that our GTS pricing saves the day for us*
and our expectations - like our fanboys - are "high"

he *doesn't KNOW* r600 performance ... he is actually saying the GTS is "likely the product that the R600 will be positioned against"

likely
:Q

are you related to him?


... a in a 'spiritual' sort of way like a worshiper to his god?

 

[Gstanfor]

vr-zone has broken the NDA.

R600 review

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
vr-zone has broken the NDA.

R600 review

Why does it load so slow? :brokenheart: